How Liberal are your muslim friends?

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How Liberal are your muslim friends?
OP - March 28, 2012, 08:18 AM

Forget about the amoral ones e.g. Sex,drugs and alcohol. Im talking about the ones as follows:

-the ones that are open minded towards homosexuality and lesbianism i.e. They dont discriminate.

-de-ethnicized, the unquestionable truth that no race or ethnic group is superior and have no resentments for any of them

-The ones that aren't inherently sexists

To put it in a nutshell,they are prejudicial to its minimal,since its hardly possible for one to be non-prejudicial.

And finally the ones that acknowledges Science and Philosophy.

Are your muslim friends liberal as this?

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #1 - March 28, 2012, 12:03 PM

Quote from: Cato on March 28, 2012, 08:18 AM
Are your muslim friends liberal as this?

Yes, actually.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #2 - March 28, 2012, 12:04 PM

I have no muslim friends, but I will use my ex sister in law as an example.

She is not amoral, she doesn't drink, smoke, she prays regularly. She is a very good muslim.

However she has a sociology degree, meaning she is educated, which causes her very visible confusion since she knows (educationally) that there is no judgement really for homosexuality, she thinks in a way that clashes with what Islam tells her she must and you can see the cognitive dissonance in her when talking about these subjects.

She just falls back on "well god knows" the truth. She doesn't judge, discriminate, lives like one of the nicest people I know, and yet knows that Islam thinks differently from her. As I said, her escape is resting on "only god understands the reasons"......the cop out position.

Really sad because she is abused, but she is a muslim first and foremost.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #3 - March 28, 2012, 12:10 PM

I have a handful of people I'd call "friends" who identify as Muslims... they're very varied. Most of them do drink or smoke weed, or have in the past. And all have had premarital sexual relations. Some of them are openly for lgbt rights and freedom of expression. Most are for those things but stay quiet when the question comes up.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #4 - March 28, 2012, 12:11 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on March 28, 2012, 12:04 PM
.........................

She just falls back on "well god knows" the truth. She doesn't judge, discriminate, lives like one of the nicest people I know, and yet knows that Islam thinks differently from her. As I said, her escape is resting on "only god understands the reasons"......the cop out position.

Really sad because she is abused, but she is a muslim first and foremost.

yap .. teaching how to cop out, and how to live life in a cognitive dissonance state is the first step in every cult. And all cult leaders teach that to their followers....

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #5 - March 28, 2012, 12:27 PM

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #6 - March 28, 2012, 12:37 PM

When Hassan was asking for Liberal Muslims to be part of the youtube video he made recently, I sent out an open call to anyone of Muslim background/culture/faith to speak up for freedom of expression. Not a single actual believing Muslim responded. I know they're there, they post stories about how Islam is misunderstood, it's actually quite lovely etc etc. But not one of them stood up to be part of this video. Only a few ex-muslim atheists/agnostics responded. That tells you something.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #7 - March 28, 2012, 12:46 PM

Quote from: allat on March 28, 2012, 12:37 PM
When Hassan was asking for Liberal Muslims to be part of the youtube video he made recently, I sent out an open call to anyone of Muslim background/culture/faith to speak up for freedom of expression. Not a single actual believing Muslim responded. I know they're there, they post stories about how Islam is misunderstood, it's actually quite lovely etc etc. But not one of them stood up to be part of this video. Only a few ex-muslim atheists/agnostics responded. That tells you something.

Hassan is NOT Muslim he left Islam., he is not only not Muslim but he has insulted Islam innumerable times., he has no right to ask Muslims to come and speak in to his anti Islamic tubes..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKEd6rzbeg

I would like to see some one to BEAT UP THIS ROGUE YOU SEE TO PULP .. He lives in London..

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #8 - March 28, 2012, 01:44 PM

Quote
Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts compared to their counterparts in France and Germany, according to a survey published today.

The Gallup poll features the results of telephone and face-to-face interviews with Muslims and non-Muslims in the UK, France and Germany and is designed to measure global attitudes towards people from different faith traditions.

It shows that British Muslims hold more conservative opinions towards homosexual acts, abortion, viewing pornography, suicide and sex outside marriage than European Muslims, polling markedly lower when asked if they believed these things were morally acceptable.

The most dramatic contrast was found in attitudes towards homosexuality. None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable. 1,001 non-Muslim Britons were interviewed.

By comparison, 35% of French Muslims found homosexual acts to be acceptable. A question on pornography also elicited different reactions, with French and German Muslims more likely than British Muslims to believe that watching or reading pornography was morally acceptable.

On the issue of sexual relations between unmarried men and women, general populations surveyed express similar views, with the majority believing it was acceptable. But the Muslim populations polled again reflected greater diversity on the matter. French Muslims ranked highest again, with 48% believing it was acceptable, followed by 27% of German Muslims responding favourably. British Muslims came last, with only 3% of those questioned personally believing that sex between unmarried men and women was moral. There was a similar outcome when asked for their views on extra-marital affairs.

The survey was formally launched in London today by Dalia Mogahed, who was recently appointed to US president Barack Obama's advisory council on faith-based and neighbourhood partnerships and is executive director of the Gallup Centre for Muslim Studies.

Mogahed said some of the findings surprised her, particularly that British Muslims identified more with their home nation than did non-Muslims because "it flew in the face of conventional wisdom". She expressed concern that British Muslims were less happier and less "thriving" than Muslims overseas. "The British Muslim community is disproportionately unemployed."

The report suggested that integration should be focusing on economic opportunity rather than religious issues, she added...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #9 - March 28, 2012, 03:44 PM

Quote from: allat on March 28, 2012, 12:37 PM
When Hassan was asking for Liberal Muslims to be part of the youtube video he made recently, I sent out an open call to anyone of Muslim background/culture/faith to speak up for freedom of expression. Not a single actual believing Muslim responded. I know they're there, they post stories about how Islam is misunderstood, it's actually quite lovely etc etc. But not one of them stood up to be part of this video. Only a few ex-muslim atheists/agnostics responded. That tells you something.

Yes it does. I was really surprised (which is a surprise lol) that not one muslim would do it.

Where was debunker when you needed him hey.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #10 - March 28, 2012, 05:57 PM

When i hear words ''liberal muslim'' i cringe. I don't even know what it means anymore. In fact, i had a strange experience with one of such liberals.

When we met, i thought he was really a cool guy. Ex-wahabbi, a member of liberal political party, he often cited Buddha and criticized backwardness of Arab world (he lived there for a few years).

Last year gay pride parade was attacked by angry mob in one of the countries in neighbourhood. I was a little bit shocked when he told ; i completely support such tratment of gays….

Later, he claimed that Qoran is the most perfect book ever written and he told me ; don't worry, dear girl, according to Qoran People of the book go to heaven…(Ok, i won't go to heaven, because I am no longer Christian) .

And in one of his passionate speches he said; Juice hate us because they know that islam is the true religion.

He praised Youseff Qardawi as some kind of the most prominent intellectuals in the Arab world. I looked up on Internet about Monsieur Qardawi and I was like

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #11 - March 28, 2012, 06:04 PM

^^^That's because no one (Muslim or not) is consistent in their philosophies and political positions, I've met many liberal (non-Muslims) who also happened to be committed racists, xenophobes, homophobes, 'pro-life', anti-humanist etc etc. There are also many so called 'rationalists' (even a few on this board) who believe in hocum conspiracy theories, UFOs, scientology, 'alternative medicine', zionist/free mason domination, reptillians, racial superiority and other ridiculous non-rational arguments.

Anyway, my point is that no one is consistent on every position they hold and all humans are far more complicated than being assigned one or two all-encompassing labels that will accurately describe them.

Anyway, in reference to the thread, I don't have any Muslim friends any more as I moved away from where I lived, and there are no muslims where I live, but I had quite a few Muslim friends who knew (and were cool with) me being an atheist, and were accepting of homosexuality, and generally open-minded in many affairs. They seemed to be foreign though, I can think of an Iranian, a guy from Brunei, an Indonesian, a Senegalese, a Turk and an Omani. Not many UK muslims were as open-minded, but there are exceptions.

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #12 - March 28, 2012, 08:22 PM

Quote from: allat on March 28, 2012, 12:37 PM
When Hassan was asking for Liberal Muslims to be part of the youtube video he made recently, I sent out an open call to anyone of Muslim background/culture/faith to speak up for freedom of expression. Not a single actual believing Muslim responded. I know they're there, they post stories about how Islam is misunderstood, it's actually quite lovely etc etc. But not one of them stood up to be part of this video. Only a few ex-muslim atheists/agnostics responded. That tells you something.

Yup, to be honest i was bit skeptic when Hassan asked for that because i doubt if the so calledliberal muslims would stand up for ex-muslims cause.even if they did, they may likely be troubled by it later on and they may also get rebuked for that.

I may sound biased,but most muslims irl whom i thought are liberal arent really so, in fact they can be worse than traditional muslims. Is it only me that thinks any liberal muslim that is open minded towards LGBT, acknowledges misogyny and inconsistencies in Islam is probably closet a ex-muslim.

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

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Re: How Liberal are your muslim friends?
Reply #13 - March 28, 2012, 09:10 PM

Quote from: Cato on March 28, 2012, 08:22 PM
Yup, to be honest i was bit skeptic when Hassan asked for that because i doubt if the so calledliberal muslims would stand up for ex-muslims cause.even if they did, they may likely be troubled by it later on and they may also get rebuked for that.

I think, from what I know, Hassan had hoped that there would be more of a Muslim solidarity with the people mentioned in that video whose LIVES are at stake due to Islamist blasphemy laws. I saw Hassan trying hard to recruit liberal, progressive, secular muslims to join the video. In the end, I think there were 2 or 3 who actually agreed to be part of it, out of literally hundreds who were reached either via fb groups or through personal requests.

I agree though that it is in large part all about fear for many of them. I have been told personally by more than a few of the progressive muslim types that they agree with these campaigns and think freedom of expression is important, but they fear the backlash from their families and communities if they actually speak up.

It's the same reason many ex-muzzies don't speak up.

Difference is, we are openly rejecting the religion of our families and communities (of origin) so we have a lot more at stake. Liberal/secular/progressive muslims COULD speak up and frame their arguments in a sugar-coated version of islam.

But they are still afraid. They claim to identify with it and they claim it's a great wonderful philosophy. And yet they are prisoners in it.

And then they wonder why people are "phobic" i.e. AFRAID of their religion.

Quote from: Cato on March 28, 2012, 08:22 PM
I may sound biased,but most muslims irl whom i thought are liberal arent really so, in fact they can be worse than traditional muslims. Is it only me that thinks any liberal muslim that is open minded towards LGBT, acknowledges misogyny and inconsistencies in Islam is probably closet a ex-muslim.

Many are. Some may not even identify as an ex-muzzie because to them it is a racialized identity and saying they're ex-muzzies would feel like they're committing treason against their families and communities. Those types I call muslim-in-name-only (MINOs).

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