Political systems

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- zoomi
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Political systems
OP - April 03, 2012, 07:38 PM

Political theory is complicated. What is an appropriate organizational system on a micro level does not always work on a macro level, and vice versa.

To rehash the obvious, governing systems operate at different levels, each with varying areas of authority and under slightly different conditions. In Canada, for instance, very generally most processes operate at either a municipal, provincial, and federal level -- parliament itself is set up like the British system, etc..

The discussion between communism versus democracy versus anarchy is glib. The binary between Cosmopolitanism vs Communitarianism also lacks subtlety. There are several, interrelated structural and philosophical concerns about the best way to "run" things (I won't even say "to run a country," because that implies that the best political system is one that divides the world up into autonomous countries to begin with, so it already begs a certain question). I suppose the question is, how should humans go about organizing themselves?

(Even anarchy is structured, in some sense. What counts as anarchy? Something akin to the "state of nature," where absolutely no organization takes place, or a form of anarchy where organization takes place on only the most basic and personal of levels and can be disbanded at any time, etc..)

The world is a blank canvass and you have been asked to create organizational structure from scratch. What would you paint? (Or, if that is impossible to answer consider the less open question -- You have inherited the world as it is right now and have been told to re-organize things. What would you do?)
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Re: Political systems
Reply #1 - April 03, 2012, 08:18 PM

I don't know how moral and productive they might be. I'm completely unsure of a lot of things about political systems but it feels like it's got to do with psychology, economics and a bit of moral philosophy and what not. I don't know if sociobiology helps.

"I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
[Kepler's epitaph]
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Re: Political systems
Reply #2 - April 03, 2012, 08:46 PM

For sure. It is complicated MC -- care to take a stab at it?
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Re: Political systems
Reply #3 - April 03, 2012, 08:52 PM

Not adept enough yet but I'm learning more towards understanding it through mathematics and biology. Non linear complexity may as well find good solutions.

"I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
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Re: Political systems
Reply #4 - April 03, 2012, 09:25 PM

I thought about this for a bit.

I'm actually happiest with my own personal position.

Democratic socialism or a Social Democracy with tough regulation on business activity, strong emphasis on public services such as social welfare and with special regards to education. And liberal policies when it comes to personal issues. Foreign relations would generally be to foster relations based on benefit to the individual state with exception of not dealing with extreme countries (poor human rights abuses or dictatorial governments etc) unless absolutely necessary. The country's income would come from a mix of primary, secondary and tertiary services in balance with a strong emphasis on new technologies and dealing with emerging nations.

I know you asked for a world, but I think it's almost impossible to successfully govern the world as one, that's why we haven't seen a one world government, and it seems unlikely that we'll see one in the future.

Sounds almost like Sweden.

I know it's not very imaginative, but that's how I see the ideal world. Actually, scrap that, the ideal world should be an educated and rational populace with a large stake in government and society and fair democracy, it's important to balance all sides of the debate and with a largely educated populace this should be even better, it would also be important to make sure that society and policy changes with new challenges and to incorporate fresh ideas.0

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Re: Political systems
Reply #5 - April 03, 2012, 11:33 PM

Interesting points. I didn't mean a single "one world" government per se, just that the whole world would have to be organized to some extent. (I.e. your system seems to rely on nation states having a relative amount of sovereignty -- that is, if you think every country should run as you described it.)
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Re: Political systems
Reply #6 - April 03, 2012, 11:39 PM

Quote from: Sprout on April 03, 2012, 09:25 PM
I thought about this for a bit.

I'm actually happiest with my own personal position.

Democratic socialism or a Social Democracy with tough regulation on business activity, strong emphasis on public services such as social welfare and with special regards to education. And liberal policies when it comes to personal issues. Foreign relations would generally be to foster relations based on benefit to the individual state with exception of not dealing with extreme countries (poor human rights abuses or dictatorial governments etc) unless absolutely necessary. The country's income would come from a mix of primary, secondary and tertiary services in balance with a strong emphasis on new technologies and dealing with emerging nations.

How do you define "absolutely necessary"? Neo-cons in Washington will say that its absolutely necessary to deal with certain governments (energy rich countries that have dictatorships) otherwise the American economy (probably the world economy too) would collapse without dealing with such regimes.

Quote from: Sprout on April 03, 2012, 09:25 PM
I know you asked for a world, but I think it's almost impossible to successfully govern the world as one, that's why we haven't seen a one world government, and it seems unlikely that we'll see one in the future.

Sounds almost like Sweden.

I know it's not very imaginative, but that's how I see the ideal world. Actually, scrap that, the ideal world should be an educated and rational populace with a large stake in government and society and fair democracy, it's important to balance all sides of the debate and with a largely educated populace this should be even better, it would also be important to make sure that society and policy changes with new challenges and to incorporate fresh ideas.0

The very Sweden who has been involved with arms dealings with Saudi? Their defence minister recently resigned over this.
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Re: Political systems
Reply #7 - April 03, 2012, 11:43 PM

There are deeper consideration though, as MC pointed out. Where do we draw political lines of sovereignty, and which policies should be implemented at what level -- locally, nationally, etc.? Which modes of organization harness the innate (and yet fluid and versatile) nature of human beings and work to make the best possible society, and which systems bring out the worst in people? What is the sign of a "good" society -- happiness, productivity, knowledge expansion, least amount of deaths... And, assuming we are not working from a mundus rasa here, a system which would be able to be adopted with the least resistance, while still being a decent system.

If I were a millionaire, I would fund a prize on this to see who could come up with the best answer.
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Re: Political systems
Reply #8 - April 04, 2012, 12:10 AM

A guided democracy, I think I'll try and figure out something later and post lol. (Politics is my weakest point, I've no solid knowledge on political affairs, or even the general structure and terminologies)

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Re: Political systems
Reply #9 - April 04, 2012, 01:56 AM

Tito's Yugoslavia had its flaws, but out of systems that have actually been sustained for many years in a nation-state, it seems like the best model so far, at least in the modern era.

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Re: Political systems
Reply #10 - April 04, 2012, 06:25 AM

Quote from: zoomi on April 03, 2012, 11:33 PM
Interesting points. I didn't mean a single "one world" government per se, just that the whole world would have to be organized to some extent. (I.e. your system seems to rely on nation states having a relative amount of sovereignty -- that is, if you think every country should run as you described it.)

Ah, well whole world organisation is difficult, sovereignty is one of those concepts that is always a thought problem, I've studied it from jurisprudential, constitutional and international law angles and I still can't answer your question.

Sorry for my irrelevant rambling above.

Oh and aphro, I've never thought of Sweden as an ideal country, given the oppurtunity, I wouldn't live there, but it seemed to me a close example of a social democracy with liberal ideals and a strong welfare state.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: Political systems
Reply #11 - April 04, 2012, 07:13 AM

I firmly believe that questions in OP would be attempted to be answered only by someone who has never studied politics intensely or someone insane. (Plato was not insane, but ancient greeks do not count here.)

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Political systems
Reply #12 - April 04, 2012, 07:47 AM

Quote from: mchawking on April 03, 2012, 08:52 PM
Not adept enough yet but I'm learning more towards understanding it through mathematics and biology. Non linear complexity may as well find good solutions.

WTF at the whole thing and WTF is non linear complexity? Cliffy notes please. Must be some potent stuff, since I was sure that biologically speaking a gorilla never killed another gorilla for disagreeing with it's beliefs and the fact that 2+2=4 mathematically speaking never gave a satisfactory answer to how much taxes you should pay and how much of it I should redistribute to myself.

edit: 2+2=4 of course could answer such questions but one must first subscribe to moral pseudophilosophy of that quack sam harris.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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