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 Topic: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?

 (Read 3787 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     OP - April 05, 2012, 01:52 AM
    a post from facebook

    If you read the Quran, for example, you see all the principles of democracy, self rule, rule by the people, rule by consensus, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. You see principles like honesty and open discussion, fair dealings, etc. These are the principles that are described in the Quran for a prime society. There's no better description for "democracy".
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #1 - April 05, 2012, 02:12 AM
    Lol.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #2 - April 05, 2012, 02:14 AM
    What if we figured out a political system better than democracy tomorrow? I bet the quran would support that too...
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #3 - April 05, 2012, 02:15 AM
    The Quran mentions consulting one another in Surah As Shura (consultation) verse 38 I think. The 4 caliphs had a shura council and various Islamic states since have used this system. In that sense yes Islam is democratic because it allows the opinions of the masses to be heard however muslims esp Islamists have a problem with the word "democracy" because they say its rule/sovereignty of the people and not Allah therefore things that are haram (alcohol, pre-marital sex etc) are made lawful.
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #4 - April 05, 2012, 02:17 AM
    I nearly fell of my chair when I read it. If he thinks complete subservience to a celestial dictator is democracy he has serious issues with his cognitive dissonance.

    quran & democracy is antithetical:

    "never will allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumphs over the believers." (4:141)
    "power belongs to allah and to his messenger and to the believers;" (63:Cool

    in democracy anyone regardless of race or religion can stand for election for positions of power over others, but not according to the quran

    "It is not fitting for a man or woman, when a matter has been decided by allah and his messenger to have any option about their decision."(33:36)

    in democracy decisions are decided by a majority vote/consensus, not based on allah or his messengers individual prerogative.


    @aprhrodie he's a western 'moderate'
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #5 - April 05, 2012, 04:06 AM
    Sometimes I think Mo intended to live forever. Obviously when the pervert was getting old, people wondered who's gonna be the legitimate leader of mu'minoon after he dies. "How shall we approach this? We should ask rasoolullah saws what is the best muslim government, surely we will then have an answer to know the real leader and there won't be a need for shia'-sunni schism, we will live in harmony..." What did they get in response? - "Allah appoints your leader, your leader is rasoolullah, question answered, lower yourvoices, /thread. Now let me prove my immortality by eating kabob offered by an enemy jew! Allahu Akbar! Uh-oh, oh shit, I knew it, the meat spoke to me..."
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #6 - April 05, 2012, 05:00 AM
    Democracy seems to be word thrown around these days to make oneself feel progressive and hip with the cool kids  cool2. Democracy means something different for everyone

    I would have one question to ask that guy.
    Is slavery a form of democracy? Muhammad no problem supporting that.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #7 - April 05, 2012, 05:17 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 05, 2012, 04:06 AM
    Sometimes I think Mo intended to live forever. Obviously when the pervert was getting old, people wondered who's gonna be the legitimate leader of mu'minoon after he dies. "How shall we approach this? We should ask rasoolullah saws what is the best muslim government, surely we will then have an answer to know the real leader and there won't be a need for shia'-sunni schism, we will live in harmony..." What did they get in response? - "Allah appoints your leader, your leader is rasoolullah, question answered, lower yourvoices, /thread. Now let me prove my immortality by eating kabob offered by an enemy jew! Allahu Akbar! Uh-oh, oh shit, I knew it, the meat spoke to me..."


     Cheesy
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #8 - April 05, 2012, 11:55 AM
    Quote from: z10 on April 05, 2012, 02:14 AM
    What if we figured out a political system better than democracy tomorrow? I bet the quran would support that too...


    Well I've heard believers saying that Islam was the first blueprint of socialism!

    You have to understand, to the believers, Islam is everything, and everything is contained by Islam. Every religion is perfected by Islam, those that are outside its purview are also contained by it....(Buddhism? Mohammad perfected Buddha!), as are everything else, democracy, free speech, feminism, etc etc

    I'm going to write an essay on this, its actually part of how Islam reacts to modernity with an imperialistic mindset and a ridiculous dawah against what it views as competitive religions seeking to frustrate and curtail its dominion - you know, democracy, liberalism, human rights, those spiteful denials of the truth.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #9 - April 05, 2012, 12:01 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 02:17 AM
    @aprhrodie he's a western 'moderate'


    Its a common kind of thing to say, the other day I linked to a British Muslim lady saying that Islam is feminism and Mohammad was the FIRST (the first I tells ya!) feminist in history.

    Two things - either they are trying to reconcile in their minds Islam with modern, liberal, egalitarian principles and thoughts, and so they interpret Islam in that way. Or they do it to 'prove' that Islam is the best, Islam wins and you are rubbish, so there, kind of thing. A kind of supremacist arrogance that is recognisable in many different forms.

    Could be both simultaneously, or one more than the other, depending on the person, their inclinations and attitudes.

    (I do have sympathy for those who are genuinely trying to reconcile themselves and their Islam to modernity, liberal ideas etc etc, even if I disagree with their interpretations)

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #10 - April 05, 2012, 12:24 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 01:52 AM
    a post from  facebook

    If you read the Quran, for example, you see all the principles of democracy, self rule, rule by the people, rule by consensus, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. You see principles like honesty and open discussion, fair dealings, etc. These are the principles that are described in the Quran for a prime society. There's no better description for "democracy".

     Cheesy

    Ask him/her if he can give you daleel (reference)?
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #11 - April 05, 2012, 06:40 PM
    billy, they attempt to retrofit Islam to their personal views in order to rationalise in tioo themselves
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #12 - April 05, 2012, 07:08 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 02:17 AM
    in democracy anyone regardless of race or religion can stand for election for positions of power over others,


    Well, no, not necessarily. That's a modern, Western-style "liberal democracy" you're speaking of, but democracy, without any qualifiers or modifiers, simply means majority rule, not necessarily with any protections for minority rights. The term "democracy" comes from the ancient Greeks who did not allow women, slaves/servants, non-propertied males, or anyone else who wasn't considered a full citizen of the city-state, to vote.

    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 02:17 AM
    in democracy decisions are decided by a majority vote/consensus, not based on allah or his messengers individual prerogative.


    Again, not strictly correct. In a constitutional form of democracy, the majority vote is limited by the parameters set by the constitution. Political Islam, in a sense, is a constitutional democracy, just not a liberal one, in that male Muslims are able to rule by majority provided they do not override the constitution (that being Mo's/Allah's rules).
    fuck you
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #13 - April 05, 2012, 07:32 PM
    Quote
    If you read the Quran, for example, you see all the principles of democracy, self rule, rule by the people, rule by consensus, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. You see principles like honesty and open discussion, fair dealings, etc. These are the principles that are described in the Quran for a prime society. There's no better description for "democracy".

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #14 - April 05, 2012, 07:47 PM
    I see Jack Nicholson's been chewing khat again.
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #15 - April 05, 2012, 08:32 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 06:40 PM
    billy, they attempt to retrofit Islam to their personal views in order to rationalise in tioo themselves


    Retrofit is the right word  Afro

    Just reading the Tom Holland book all about how the hadith and isnads and tasfir were a mass retrofitting hundreds of years after Muhammad died to give legitimacy to the caliphs and institutions and preserve the imperialism.

    Islam has been retrofitting from its inception!

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #16 - April 05, 2012, 08:50 PM
    Those who think Islam "is" feminism understand neither the one nor the other.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #17 - April 05, 2012, 08:52 PM
    Yes, we call these people "idiots"
    fuck you
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #18 - April 05, 2012, 09:10 PM
    Quote
    Quran the blueprint for democracy


    yes...  Quran  indeed is  blue print to make Blue Films out of Human life

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3VDBnenegA




    That song  is from Arya Aramnejad of Iran., He comes from  Babol in the northern part of Iran. He became famous for his song "Ali Barkhiz" where he denounces the Islamic regime's crimes during the 2009 Ashura protests. After this, he was jailed and tortured, sexually humiliated - photographed naked, laughed at, obliged to walk barefooted on aids' patients blood.  He was then released and condemned to 1 year prison. He sang several other songs for the Green Movement of Iran including "Yek rooze khoob" (a good day), "Baraye Lamse Azadi" (for a touch of freedom), "Deltangi" (nostalgia).

    In December 2010, he had an interview with the Spanish newspaper El País where he talked about his tortures again and asserted "we have to be the voice of the political prisoners".  He was arrested again on 8 November 2011

    Yap  Quran   makse Blue Films out of Human life
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #19 - April 06, 2012, 02:37 AM
    ishina i love that GIF

    billy what's the name of the tom holland book
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #20 - April 06, 2012, 03:11 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on April 05, 2012, 09:10 PM
    yes...  Quran  indeed is  blue print to make Blue Films out of Human life

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3VDBnenegA


    (Clicky for piccy!)





    wow: some iranian girls are not very pretty. does your wife know about your interests yeez?
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #21 - April 06, 2012, 04:18 AM
    Yes women are generally not attractive when they are in body bags or getting shot. Men aren't either. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #22 - April 06, 2012, 04:25 AM
    *facepalm*

    You can't get more deluded than that.
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #23 - April 06, 2012, 04:31 AM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 05, 2012, 01:52 AM
    a post from a muzzie on facebook

    If you read the Quran, for example, you see all the principles of democracy, self rule, rule by the people, rule by consensus, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. You see principles like honesty and open discussion, fair dealings, etc. These are the principles that are described in the Quran for a prime society. There's no better description for "democracy".


    My favorite jpeg for those posts

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #24 - April 06, 2012, 04:42 AM
    My favorite is this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xH0xorgUoI
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #25 - April 06, 2012, 04:59 AM
    Quote from: deusvult on April 06, 2012, 04:18 AM
    Yes women are generally not attractive when they are in body bags or getting shot. Men aren't either. 


    I'd rather not generalize. Leave it for the Jerry Springer crowd. Can't say much on attractiveness of same sex - not my thing.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #26 - April 06, 2012, 05:16 AM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 06, 2012, 02:37 AM
    ishina i love that GIF

    billy what's the name of the tom holland book


    This one is better

    fuck you
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #27 - April 06, 2012, 05:19 AM
    ^ I LOVE THOSE COMMERCIALS!
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #28 - April 06, 2012, 05:22 AM
    Yeah they're pretty fuckin great.
    fuck you
  • Re: Quran the blueprint for democracy ?
     Reply #29 - April 09, 2012, 03:49 AM
    Islam is incompatible with democracy.  In Islam you submit to the rules of Allah.  Democracy is a rule by the people, for the people, and of the people.  Democratic laws can change but Allah's laws cannot.
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