Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..

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Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
OP - April 07, 2012, 10:39 AM

Some one wrote this

"Nature dictates that men must lead and women must follow." If you do anything that goes against this law of nature, you will lose your status and with it your respect.

Is this true??
Does nature really dictate that men must lead and women must follow??

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #1 - April 07, 2012, 10:52 AM

Not if you're a mosquito it doesn't.
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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #2 - April 07, 2012, 11:12 AM

On what evidence is that statement based upon?

I can make up some similar bs, but that doesn't make it true just because I said so.

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Reply #3 - April 07, 2012, 11:13 AM

Who gives a fuck about what 'nature' tells us? This obsession with 'natural' bugs me.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #4 - April 07, 2012, 11:14 AM

Ask your "someone" to first define "Nature" in this context.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #5 - April 07, 2012, 11:16 AM

Quote from: David on April 07, 2012, 10:52 AM
Not if you're a mosquito it doesn't.

David , you only have a red bow ribbon in your head, head needs grey Brain and 20% of red blood that is flowing from your heart.

When we are talking about men and women " mosquito" doesn't come in to picture..

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #6 - April 07, 2012, 11:21 AM

Quote from: allat on April 07, 2012, 11:14 AM
Ask your "someone" to first define "Nature" in this context.

well he wrote that in that context of " A non-Muslim Guy in love with a devoted Muslim Girl" both are madly in love with each other, both are financially independent but Muslim lady lives with her parents & siblings and very much attache to her family who happened to be quite devoted to Islam..

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Reply #7 - April 07, 2012, 11:24 AM

Ok. That still does not explain what he means by "Nature". Where did he learn what he wrote there? Who told him? Did Nature send him a wahi with such profound wisdom?

Usually "Nature" in this type of context is used just as a substitute for "God" which is itself usually a substitute for "My Own Personal Prejudices Which I Need To Pretend Originated in Something Eternal and Enormous Outside Me".

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #8 - April 07, 2012, 11:39 AM

Quote from: allat on April 07, 2012, 11:24 AM
Ok. That still does not explain what he means by "Nature". ~~Where did he learn what he wrote there? Who told him? Did Nature send him a wahi with such profound wisdom?~~

Usually "Nature" in this type of context is used just as a substitute for "God" which is itself usually a substitute for "My Own Personal Prejudices Which I Need To Pretend Originated in Something Eternal and Enormous Outside Me".

That is a good question., Well I guess., here "Nature/Natural" means Darwin evolutionary process at work and majority of human beings didn't escape that path way.

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Reply #9 - April 07, 2012, 11:43 AM

Ah yeah. Evolutionary psychology - the new religion of people who can't yet let go of teleological fallacies.

Tell him there is no "Nature" in that sense. Evolution does not have a direction, a set path, a "purpose" in the sense of human social relations. Also, let him know that if he's going to go by Nature to determine gender roles, that he should look into the habits of bonobos and praying mantises too.

If he wants to argue this, invite him over here.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #10 - April 07, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on April 07, 2012, 11:39 AM
That is a good question., Well I guess., here "Nature/Natural" means Darwin evolutionary process at work and majority of human beings didn't escape that path way.

Here's an example of a tribe where women rule:
http://current.com/groups/on-current-tv/89611656_women-rule-our-tribe.htm

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #11 - April 07, 2012, 12:08 PM

It sounds like something a man with a small cock would say.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #12 - April 07, 2012, 12:22 PM

Quote from: Ishina on April 07, 2012, 12:08 PM
It sounds like something a man with a small cock would say.

you are a bad bad girl..lol. who knows small cocks may have bigger heart lots of love to their life partners

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #13 - April 07, 2012, 12:22 PM

Evolution via natural selection has largely dictated for hominids that the male be the more dominant and the females be subservient, the male to be hunter gatherer and the female to be the nurturer off-spring raiser. However, this is not the case for all species, some living species self impregnate i.e. Asexual reproduction. With regards to the 5th ape (Homo Sapiens) what we call modern humans, humans have a larger brain compared to body-mass ratio of any living species and thus have devolved higher cognitive abilities, which allows them in some cases to change rolls. However, the vast majority of ape species (including humans) have a patriarchal society, however there are some cases of matriarchal societies as well.

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Reply #14 - April 07, 2012, 12:23 PM

Quote from: King Tut on April 07, 2012, 12:22 PM
Evolution via natural selection has largely dictated for hominids that the male be the more dominant and the females be subservient, the male to be hunter gatherer and the female to be the nurturer off-spring raiser. However, this is not the case for all species, some living species self impregnate i.e. Asexual reproduction. With regards to the 5th ape (Homo Sapiens) what we call modern humans, humans have a larger brain compared to body-mass ratio of any living species and thus have devolved higher cognitive abilities, which allows them in some cases to change rolls. However, the vast majority of ape species (including humans) have a patriarchal society, however there are some cases of matriarchal societies as well.

KING TUT HAS SMALL COCK

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #15 - April 07, 2012, 12:28 PM

Quote from: Sprout on April 07, 2012, 11:13 AM
Who gives a fuck about what 'nature' tells us? This obsession with 'natural' bugs me.

+1

Anyway, yeezevee, tell that Muslim that homosexuality happens in nature too, so why does Islam forbid it? (by his argument)

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #16 - April 07, 2012, 12:35 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on April 07, 2012, 12:28 PM
+1

Anyway, yeezevee, tell that Muslim that homosexuality happens in nature too, so why does Islam forbid it? (by his argument)

that is the biggest joke I heard ateapotist ., He is well known Ex-Muslim and must have written 100s of articles and 1000s of posts against Islam. His goal in life is COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF ISLAM from the face of earth..

Quote from: ateapotist on April 07, 2012, 11:57 AM
Here's an example of a tribe where women rule:
http://current.com/groups/on-current-tv/89611656_women-rule-our-tribe.htm

well that s a great video on those polyandry practicing Mosu & Naxi Matriarchal tribes from China/Tibet/ Nepal/India..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAWhZ1e8P6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r9nHrGten8

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #17 - April 07, 2012, 12:38 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on April 07, 2012, 12:35 PM
He is well known Ex-Muslims and must have written 100s of articles and 1000s of posts against Islam. His goal in life is COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF ISLAM from the face of earth..

Now it all makes sense. Bigot is as bigot does.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #18 - April 07, 2012, 12:44 PM

Quote
Quote from: yeezevee on April 07, 2012, 12:35 PM

that is the biggest joke I heard ateapotist ., He is well known Ex-Muslim and must have written 100s of articles and 1000s of posts against Islam. His goal in life is COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF ISLAM from the face of earth..
.......

Quote from: allat on April 07, 2012, 12:38 PM
Now it all makes sense. Bigot is as bigot does.

well let me rephrase those highlighted words a bit

His goal in life is COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF ISLAM THAT IS DESCRIBED IN HADITH/SUNNAH/QURAN from the face of earth.. And he clearly states that Violence is not an option to get to that goal.

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Reply #19 - April 07, 2012, 12:50 PM

Its Ali Sina who wrote that. I never liked that guy: http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/letters/love-is-not-enough/

I am a bit surprised that its an Ex- Muslim, but than again some Ex-Muslims and Non-Muslim critics of Islam has a view on women which is much closer to the one which rabid Salafi Mullahs got than rational and free-thinking humans.

Ali Sina can try so hard he wants. But sometimes he DO sound like a mullah. And his goal of exterminating a religion (ergo exterminating millions of humans), this quotation from Nietzsche says it all: He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

"Beyond Good and Evil", Aphorism 146 (1886)

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Reply #20 - April 07, 2012, 12:54 PM

Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on April 07, 2012, 12:50 PM
Its Ali Sina who wrote that. I never liked that guy: http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/letters/love-is-not-enough/

I am a bit surprised that its an Ex- Muslim, but than again some Ex-Muslims and Non-Muslim critics of Islam has a view on women which is much closer to the one which rabid Salafi Mullahs got than rational and free-thinking humans.

why .. what did he do to you Al-Ma`arri?

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good Question from that visiting lady in that video.. What do the women do for Sex??? lol...

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Reply #21 - April 07, 2012, 01:00 PM

Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on April 07, 2012, 12:50 PM
Its Ali Sina who wrote that. I never liked that guy: http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/letters/love-is-not-enough/

I am a bit surprised that its an Ex- Muslim, but than again some Ex-Muslims and Non-Muslim critics of Islam has a view on women which is much closer to the one which rabid Salafi Mullahs got than rational and free-thinking humans.

Ali Sina can try so hard he wants. But sometimes he DO sound like a mullah. And his goal of exterminating a religion (ergo exterminating millions of humans), this quotation from Nietzsche says it all: He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

"Beyond Good and Evil", Aphorism 146 (1886)

Ex Muslim isn't an ideology or cultural label, it barely tells us anything about a person beyond a shared experience with them, there are a few common stories here and there, but you shouldn't have expectations about the ideas or sensibilites of the individual. So don't expect anything from them.

And Ali Sina is in bed with right wing Christian nut jobs, so its not a shock.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #22 - April 07, 2012, 09:42 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy#Appeal_to_nature

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Reply #23 - April 08, 2012, 12:22 AM

Quote from: harakaat on April 07, 2012, 09:42 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy#Appeal_to_nature

well your opinion on that link would be more useful than the link itself harakaat.,

Quote from: Sprout on April 07, 2012, 01:00 PM
Ex Muslim isn't an ideology or cultural label, it barely tells us anything about a person beyond a shared experience with them, there are a few common stories here and there, but you shouldn't have expectations about the ideas or sensibilites of the individual. So don't expect anything from them.

Well I agree with your point that one should not assume or expect anything from any one., but   Sprout we must realize here, Ex_muslim may not be a follower of an ideology but they are ideologues similar to any one who follow any religion or question religions. But Ex-Muslims have added responsibility

You know well,

A Christian or Ex-Christian can easily question anything in Christianity including Christ
A Jewish guy or Ex-Jewish guy can easily question anything in Judaism including Moses and other revered Characters of Jewish books
Same thing goes to almost every religion of Indian subcontinent, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism ..etc..etc and to that Chinese Taoism
And we can easily make African Folks or American Indian folks to question their religious stories .,

But when it comes to Islam we are at dead end ., So Ex-Muslims have tremendous burden how to make Muslim folks do some sort of self analysis,   at the same time not to hurt their sensibilities. On top of that Ex-Ms have the responsibility of protecting Millions of unsuspected Muslims who are NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICAL ISLAM. So in That sense Ex-Muslim is more than an Ideology

Quote
And Ali Sina is in bed with right wing Christian nut jobs, so its not a shock.

Well a guy like that beating Islam for a long time makes many enemies from with in Islam., and every one needs bit of help. If it comes from right wing Christians., so be it., There is nothing wrong in it as long as you don't go and be friendly with people who go and beat up some innocent and unsuspected Muslim folks . Off course no one is unquestionable, so Mr. Ali Sina should be questioned on his words.

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Reply #24 - April 09, 2012, 12:11 AM

nature tells us every man has been born to a woman, so if anything women should lead and men should follow
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Reply #25 - April 09, 2012, 12:48 AM

Quote from: serpentofeden on April 09, 2012, 12:11 AM
nature tells us every man has been born to a woman, so if anything women should lead and men should follow

Hmm... good., how about in rape??

Serpent, would you like add these words to your statement?

"women should lead men in certain aspects" ., or did you mean in all aspects??

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Reply #26 - April 09, 2012, 07:10 AM

Amusingly, the ancient Greeks discussed this and concluded it is a political rhetorical statement to support the perspective of the speaker!

It gets embarrassing when one starts asking where precisely did ideas in the koran like the word of a woman being worth is it half or a quarter of that of a man come from?

Oh dear, a human book is it?

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #27 - July 05, 2012, 09:12 AM

No. Nature dictates our genetic make-up, not how we should behave. I've heard crap like this from plenty of sources. If you grow up in a matriarchal or matrifocal society, it must seem completely bizarre.
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Reply #28 - July 06, 2012, 01:10 PM

Farting is natural yet you are told to hold your farts in.

Cherry picking.

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Re: Is This right?? If it is, I hate Nature.,Nature has no place in my life..
Reply #29 - July 06, 2012, 04:48 PM

'nature dictates..' BS This was surely a sexist
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