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Theme Changer

 Topic: About Intentions

 (Read 11633 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #60 - April 08, 2012, 10:46 PM

    @z10 - Harakat got there before me. Yes I could too but the point is I could also change that position in light of new evidence. I don't agree with your position that belief is unnegotiable & static.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #61 - April 08, 2012, 11:21 PM

    ^ Yes, easily, if your argument and evidence are convincing.

    Tautology is tautology Tongue
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #62 - April 08, 2012, 11:24 PM

    Belief isn't static, but emotions and desires play a huge part in processing information and rationalising away contradicting evidence.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #63 - April 08, 2012, 11:48 PM

    @Homo Sapien:

    If you're a girl, why does your avatar have a picture of a man with a beard? :/

    Hey! My avatar has a picture of a man with a beard! Undecided




    ...well, stubble, at least.

    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #64 - April 08, 2012, 11:58 PM

    but emotions and desires play a huge part in processing information and rationalising away contradicting evidence.


    Hello Prince Spinoza. I guess that's true in the majority of cases but that's why I think it's good to be aware of that as possible & try to be objective and unemotional as possible. Have an open mind. Of course Islam, like most cults, demand submission & obedience which is one of the reasons it's such a successful meme.
    Also, I can honestly say (hand on heart) that I think I'm an exception to what you've just said. I would like nothing more than to be able to believe it's true and follow it & go to Paradise. It would make life so much easier for me as everyone around me is doing exactly that. Believing, following, rationalizing or just being dishonest BUT I just cannot do it because the strength of the contradictory evidence has, metaphorically speaking, punched me in the face & so I'm actually going against my desires as I'm sure many others have done.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #65 - April 09, 2012, 01:55 AM

    Tautology is tautology Tongue


    Hmm... true. I just meant that I think my psychological biases in that case would have a minimal effect on my conclusion.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #66 - April 09, 2012, 01:58 AM

    I'm actually going against my desires as I'm sure many others have done.


    I don't feel like that now, but at one point, yes, I really wanted for God (specifically the Christian conception thereof) to exist, very very strongly. Still couldn't for the life of me unatheisticize myself.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #67 - April 09, 2012, 03:37 AM

    @harakaat,

    Quote from: harakaat
    I don't feel like that now, but at one point, yes, I really wanted for God (specifically the Christian conception thereof) to exist, very very strongly. Still couldn't for the life of me unatheisticize myself.


    I've wanted for Christianity to be true too!!!! Mainly cuz it's so easy. Tongue

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #68 - April 09, 2012, 03:45 AM

    I don't really think Christianity itself is really much "easier" than Islam - it's simply had many reformations, and christians generally follow the doctrine much less strictly than muslims follow theirs. You have the luxury of picking what you like with Christianity nowadays, with Islam you generally don't.

    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #69 - April 09, 2012, 03:46 AM

    @moi,

    Thanks for your reply! Smiley

    Welcome.   parrot  Don't forget to read up about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pirates and of course parrots!

    Huh? Parrots? :/

    Quote
    I think the root of your problem is calculus.

      
     Cheesy

    Quote
    As a muslim, you are meant to submit and switch your brain off.  You are training your mind to think by doing calculus.  Extremely unislamic?

    Um. Okay. :/ I've been studying Maths for years, you know... Tongue And I don't really think you're supposed to switch your brain off in Islam. :/ I guess we have different views of Islam or something. Smiley

    Quote
    These are actually examples of routines deliberately designed to stop thinking.  Try reading Goffman Asylum.

    They don't have that in my library, so I Wikipedia'd it. Are you referring to this?:

    Quote from: Wiki
    In 1961, Goffman published the book Asylums: Essays on the Social Situation of Mental Patients and Other Inmates[5][6] which was one of the first sociological examinations of the social situation of mental patients, the hospital.[7] The book includes four essays: Characteristics of Total Institutions (1957), The Moral Career of the Mental Patient (1959), The Underlife of a Public Institution: A Study of Ways of Making Out in a Mental Hospital, The Medical Model and Mental Hospitalization: Some Notes on the Vicissitudes of the Tinkering Trades.[2]:vii In Asylums, Goffman is mainly engrossed with the details of having been hospitalized to a psychiatric hospital and the nature and effects of the process he defines as ‘institutionalization’.[8]:150 He describes how the institutionalisation process socialises people into the role of a good patient, someone ‘dull, harmless and inconspicuous’, which in turn reinforces notions of chronicity in severe mental illness.[9]


    Quote
    And on praying five times, that is a direct import from Zoroastrianism so is heathen - does not the koran say three?

    It does?! Shocked Can someone show me where?

    Quote
    Which do you want?  To wallow in a blah god consciousness or actually learn a skill - thinking?  And realising that gods and allah and devils and hell are all inventions of our minds.  If you are into that stuff, try Sean of the Dead!

    I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but if hell, devils, etc are an invention of our minds, I'd like to know so. Smiley Hence, you know...this thread. Tongue

    Quote
    I have just been reading Robin Lane Fox The Classical World, and reading up about Tom Holland - probably will buy the book tomorrow.  The Spartans took loads of animals with them to their battles to sacrifice to work out the wills of the gods.

    Unrelated, but I noticed in London that people were always reading books, newspapers, their iPads/Kindles on the Tube, whereas when I go on the subway here in Canada, barely anyone is reading. Smiley Just thought I'd mention that.

    Quote
    THat is basically what religion is about. Monotheism does look like a political invention to sort out issues of democracy and tyranny in tyranny's favour.

    I would think monotheism would free you from tyranny, seeing as you all become equals before God except in terms of piety, hence a subject could be better than his ruler....I think we have different views on this TOO. Tongue Haha.

    Thanks very much. Have a nice day! Smiley

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #70 - April 09, 2012, 03:51 AM

    @harakaat,

    I've wanted for Christianity to be true too!!!! Mainly cuz it's so easy. Tongue


    It wasn't about that for me -- I just found (and still do, in fact) Christianity really romantic, and, to quote you, an "elegant" religion.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #71 - April 09, 2012, 03:55 AM

    @Homo Sapien,

    Yes- they are smart too & also deserve a mention but in my own personal view you're defending a weaker case which is not easy & so it's safe to conclude you're smart if you do it well & hence y I bigged you up coz indeed- you did it well
    Actually, there is too many smart teenagers around nowadays which is great  great

    *Blush* Thanks.....of course, being on the weaker side of a case doesn't exactly make you smart. Tongue It makes you dumb, haha.

    Quote
    You lived in Saudi? How long for?

    Yessir. Around 8 or so years. (I can never keep track..) Actually, I just went back for a week this March and bought a brand new abaya!!! It's SOOO pretty! Smiley I love it. It has these long hanging sort of sleeves and they have a gold design on them. I really really like it. Smiley I wish I could wear an abaya 24/7. There are so many kinds!!!

    Quote
    It's just a quote/philosophical musing from a 6th century Chinese taoist philosopher. It refers directly to the infinite and eternal nature of the universe as a sinusoidal flux in the space -time continuum. You mean to say you didn't know that? I thought you were smart  Geek


    Silly me! Tongue

    Quote
    Nah- seriously I think it's just a musing that I liked when I first started thinking about the universe in a philosophical sense. I'm not sure about the universe being eternal although some cosmologists do argue this is the case. The 2nd bit though Is spot on IMO as elements of the universe (stars, solar systems, galaxies etc) are in various states of transition (stars live & die, galaxies collide etc.) The universe is in a dynamic, ever changing state & it is that ever changing state & transformation that can give rise to life & that can be the life of a star, a galaxy, a planet or even a bacterium or us.

    Wow!!! That's so smart!!!!! Thank you!

    Quote
    In the words of Zakir Naik- "I hope that answers the question"

    Ha! Dr Zakir Naik...used to love him. Smiley Not so much anymore.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #72 - April 09, 2012, 03:57 AM

    It does?! Shocked Can someone show me where?


    Not exactly, but only three prayers are mentioned explicitly in the Quran. That's why some Quranists pray three times a day.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #73 - April 09, 2012, 03:59 AM

    @Homo Sapien,
    *Blush* Thanks.....of course, being on the weaker side of a case doesn't exactly make you smart. Tongue It makes you dumb, haha.


    I know some very intelligent people who think the earth is flat. I don't think it's about intelligence as much as it is an ability (and willingness) to identify and minimize cognitive biases.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #74 - April 09, 2012, 04:02 AM

    If I were to give you a completely plausible argument for there being a dinosaur on the other side of the wall ahead of you, would you believe me? What if my argument was completely correct? Could you, following all the evidence, convince yourself that that dinosaur is just as real as the fact that the sun will rise from the east?


    This isn't directed at me, but I wouldn't believe you, or I wouldn't be 100% certain. Smiley I don't think a dinosaur is really the best analogy in this case, since all our knowledge of dinosaurs comes from evidence, but if you told me there was a T-Rex chillaxing in my living room, I'd ask to see your credentials and check to see if you're some sort of pathological liar or something. And if push REALLY came to shove, I'd figure that you were mistaken and wait it out till new evidence came to light that proved you wrong. Smiley

    I call that "common sense". I dunno why you guys are so willing to believe that dinosaurs are traipsing all over the place...just cuz someone has a good argument doesn't make it TRUE. In my humble opinion. Smiley

    ^ I have a feeling that this stance is against my beliefs though. :/

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #75 - April 09, 2012, 04:03 AM

    Hey! My avatar has a picture of a man with a beard! Undecided




    ...well, stubble, at least.


    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheesy Perhaps I was sending you a subtle hint? Wink

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #76 - April 09, 2012, 04:04 AM

    I don't really think Christianity itself is really much "easier" than Islam - it's simply had many reformations, and christians generally follow the doctrine much less strictly than muslims follow theirs. You have the luxury of picking what you like with Christianity nowadays, with Islam you generally don't.


    Trueeeeeee....that too. Smiley I meant the more laidback branches of Christianity... Tongue

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #77 - April 09, 2012, 04:06 AM

    It wasn't about that for me -- I just found (and still do, in fact) Christianity really romantic, and, to quote you, an "elegant" religion.


    I think I was talking about Islam, not Christianity.... Tongue

    Quote
    Not exactly, but only three prayers are mentioned explicitly in the Quran. That's why some Quranists pray three times a day.

    Oh, *phew*. Thought Moi meant something else. Smiley Kay, we're cool now.

    Quote
    I know some very intelligent people who think the earth is flat. I don't think it's about intelligence as much as it is an ability (and willingness) to identify and minimize cognitive biases.

    Umm...what? :/ Why would they think that?

    I've had people ask me if I believe in dinosaurs. :/ Once, my friend asked me if I followed the Bible literally or not. Tongue Haha.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #78 - April 09, 2012, 04:15 AM

    I think I was talking about Islam, not Christianity.... Tongue


    I know.

    Umm...what? :/ Why would they think that?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc

    I've had people ask me if I believe in dinosaurs.


    A very, very close friend of mine doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #79 - April 09, 2012, 04:19 AM


    Couldn't finish watching. Felt kind of sick. :/

    Quote
    A very, very close friend of mine doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

    Ummm...okay. :/

    On a less bewildering note: I don't really like dinosaurs. I'd be glad if they had never existed. They make me feel small and insignificant. :( Same with the Blue Whale, elephants, crocodiles, hippos, ostriches, large cats with big teeth, wolves, bears, trees, and the Toronto skyline.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #80 - April 09, 2012, 11:27 AM

    If I were to give you a completely plausible argument for there being a dinosaur on the other side of the wall ahead of you, would you believe me? What if my argument was completely correct? Could you, following all the evidence, convince yourself that that dinosaur is just as real as the fact that the sun will rise from the east?

    And to take it a step further, if you don't believe there is a dinosaur on the other side of the wall, you go to Hell.

    Would you then believe that there is a dinosaur?

    I call that "common sense". I dunno why you guys are so willing to believe that dinosaurs are traipsing all over the place...just cuz someone has a good argument doesn't make it TRUE. In my humble opinion. Smiley

    Yes, that's what he was trying to get you to see. yes

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #81 - April 09, 2012, 11:52 AM

    Couldn't finish watching. Felt kind of sick. :/
    Ummm...okay. :/

    On a less bewildering note: I don't really like dinosaurs. I'd be glad if they had never existed. They make me feel small and insignificant. :( Same with the Blue Whale, elephants, crocodiles, hippos, ostriches, large cats with big teeth, wolves, bears, trees, and the Toronto skyline.


    How does the vastness of any of those things make you insignificant though?  small yea, but of no import?  tell that to some of the worlds most lethal diseases and disease carriers.   Wink

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #82 - April 09, 2012, 02:06 PM






    Um. Okay. :/ I've been studying Maths for years, you know... Tongue And I don't really think you're supposed to switch your brain off in Islam. :/ I guess we have different views of Islam or something



    @Chepea

    It's  a good thing you look at subjects with a thinking mind. Mathematically studies are very useful  in helping with logical progression. You need to be careful here on this forum as well as with many in the world and not to let them make you think that because you believe there is a God you  have  not been convinced by evidence of this fact.

    There are many religious  people, well people in general, who simply take the belief pattern of their family regardless if this is believing in a God or Gods or god or gods or no god.  Many give it no thought at all. However, there as well are thinking  religious people as well as thinking Atheists  and Agnostics.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #83 - April 09, 2012, 03:28 PM

    And to take it a step further, if you don't believe there is a dinosaur on the other side of the wall, you go to Hell.

    Would you then believe that there is a dinosaur?


    I'd just take the claim more seriously, that's all. :/ I still don't think there's a T-rex in my living room.

    But I guess, MAYBE, if the T-rex wasn't there, then he wouldn't be able to formulate a good argument for it being there, so if he's able to do that, that means it is there? (Sorry if that's confusing.)

    Quote
    Yes, that's what he was trying to get you to see. yes


    Oh! Cool!  dance

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #84 - April 09, 2012, 03:32 PM

    @BerberElla,

    How does the vastness of any of those things make you insignificant though?  small yea, but of no import?  tell that to some of the worlds most lethal diseases and disease carriers.   Wink


    Well, take the Toronto skyline: It's a symbol of human "progress" (I SUPPOSE; I don't really like big cities so to me it's just an ugly smoke-spewing machine), but looking at it reminds me of the fact that I haven't contributed anything to humanity. It's not like I designed one of those buildings or something.

    That's kind of depressing. Tongue Oh well. C'est la vie. Smiley

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #85 - April 09, 2012, 03:34 PM

    @Lynna,

    Thanks for your reply! Smiley

    @Chepea

    It's  a good thing you look at subjects with a thinking mind. Mathematically studies are very useful  in helping with logical progression. You need to be careful here on this forum as well as with many in the world and not to let them make you think that because you believe there is a God you  have  not been convinced by evidence of this fact.

    There are many religious  people, well people in general, who simply take the belief pattern of their family regardless if this is believing in a God or Gods or god or gods or no god.  Many give it no thought at all. However, there as well are thinking  religious people as well as thinking Atheists  and Agnostics.


    Or, as Solara so succinctly put it:

    Thinking is good. Smiley


     Afro

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #86 - April 09, 2012, 06:13 PM

    This isn't directed at me, but I wouldn't believe you, or I wouldn't be 100% certain. Smiley I don't think a dinosaur is really the best analogy in this case, since all our knowledge of dinosaurs comes from evidence, but if you told me there was a T-Rex chillaxing in my living room, I'd ask to see your credentials and check to see if you're some sort of pathological liar or something. And if push REALLY came to shove, I'd figure that you were mistaken and wait it out till new evidence came to light that proved you wrong. Smiley

    I call that "common sense". I dunno why you guys are so willing to believe that dinosaurs are traipsing all over the place...just cuz someone has a good argument doesn't make it TRUE. In my humble opinion. Smiley

    ^ I have a feeling that this stance is against my beliefs though. :/

    Yeah unless you saw it you can't ever be 100% sure. However IMO a person can make a very convincing case for a dinosaur behind the wall if:

    1)There is no contradictory evidence
    2)All the evidence for a dinosaur being there cannot be explained by alternate arguments.
    3)There is variety of evidence for a dinosaur behind the wall.

    Even then you certainly would be justified in not believing there's a dinosaur there though, unless you peer over the wall and see one but I don't think anyone who does believe there's a dinosaur there would be lacking in common sense.
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #87 - April 09, 2012, 06:17 PM

    @BerberElla,

    Well, take the Toronto skyline: It's a symbol of human "progress" (I SUPPOSE; I don't really like big cities so to me it's just an ugly smoke-spewing machine), but looking at it reminds me of the fact that I haven't contributed anything to humanity. It's not like I designed one of those buildings or something.

    That's kind of depressing. Tongue Oh well. C'est la vie. Smiley

    Don't feel bad, sky scrapers aren't designed by 17 year old's, you have plenty of time to contribute something.  Tongue
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #88 - April 09, 2012, 06:23 PM

    Yeah unless you saw it you can't ever be 100% sure. However IMO a person can make a very convincing case for a dinosaur behind the wall if:

    1)There is no contradictory evidence
    2)All the evidence for a dinosaur being there cannot be explained by alternate arguments.
    3)There is variety of evidence for a dinosaur behind the wall.

    Even then you certainly would be justified in not believing there's a dinosaur there though, unless you peer over the wall and see one but I don't think anyone who does believe there's a dinosaur there would be lacking in common sense.


    But dinosaurs are extinct! That's their whole POINT. That's why in museums, you see T-rex bones. (I just realised that a T-rex is the only kind of dinosaur whose name I know. Tongue)

    And cuz they're extinct, (3) isn't possible. How'd the dinosaur get there? Are there footprints anywhere? No, right? And like, helicopters can't just lift dinosaurs and place them in my house. They're too heavy. So therefore, it's not even possible for a dinosaur to be there.

    Maybe it's a komodo dragon and the person making the claim is just confused. Tongue

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: About Intentions
     Reply #89 - April 09, 2012, 06:25 PM

    Wait, wait, do you guys who'd believe in the dinosaur given a good argument also believe in UFOs then?

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
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