Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


What music are you listen...
by zeca
Yesterday at 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Gaza assault
November 21, 2024, 07:56 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Sentence by consequence

 (Read 2509 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Sentence by consequence
     OP - April 08, 2012, 12:48 AM

    Just a little teaser 'cos I'm bored.

    Results matter. So your soon-to-be-ex boss tells you when your hard work yields nothing. And so it seems, does the judge when he deems just how naughty you've been. But is it right to give more weight to that which was beyond a man's control than to the crime he knowingly and willingly committed? If you drive in a funny pattern because you've necked 3 bottles of vodka, you will receive an irritating fine. If however, a person happens to be somewhere on the funny pattern, you will be locked up for a very, very long time. Both cases you broke the same law, but somehow you deserve a far worse punishment the second time for ultimately making the same stupid decision. Is this justifiable?

    The sentence varies wildly depending on the outcome, and we are calculating creatures. We play the odds. Drink driving? Probably not a good idea, but hey, chances are I will get away scot-free or with a small fine. I'm willing to take that risk and it 'pays off'. Hapless Joe is willing to take the same risk but, hapless as he is, a person rudely hits his car and dies. Hapless Joe is in deep shit now, and so will Mrs Hapless and Hapless Jr be while Joe is getting used to life behind bars. He was mostly a good man, he laments. He paid his taxes, helped an old lady to cross the street, played catch with his son. Sure he downloaded music illegally, but he felt bad about it. Now his life is ruined, he sees the ghost of the person he killed everywhere, his wife found someone with more hair and less involuntary manslaughter convictions, his son takes to drugs and his only friend is that old guy you see in every prison flick. Joe would never DUI again, he's learnt his lesson, but someone has to pay for the dead body. Why is it always Hapless Joe? *weh weh wehhhh* Cue laugh track.

    Drink driving is very stupid and reckless, more stupid than the punishment for first offence would suggest. Drink driving and killing someone is equally reckless, but less lucky. Would it not be fairer, more productive even, to punish recklessness, action, rather than happenstance? You give people a hefty sentence for drink driving, and far fewer people will meet the stupidity-threshold. And where there are fewer idiots there are fewer oops-i-accidentally-killed-someone-s, which is good for those of us who don't like being killed and fairer on Hapless Joe's future descendants. Simple right?

    Except it makes no sense - dealing with a death the same as a knocked-over sign. Blood must be paid for - we demand it. But how do we justify it?
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #1 - April 08, 2012, 02:14 PM

    FINE! That's the last time I make even a halfway serious thread! tickedoff
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #2 - April 08, 2012, 02:23 PM

    If it helps, I was going to answer but I couldn't formulate my thoughts correctly so I gave up. You should sympathise.


    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #3 - April 08, 2012, 02:30 PM

    ^Same.

    The answer went something like; the alternatives are stupid so it's the best we have.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #4 - April 08, 2012, 03:21 PM

    This was really smart. Smiley Good job!!!! And I have no idea. But it was so smart overall that I'm sure you'll figure out the answer. Smiley

    And this is funny:

    Quote
    Now his life is ruined, he sees the ghost of the person he killed everywhere, his wife found someone with more hair and less involuntary manslaughter convictions, his son takes to drugs and his only friend is that old guy you see in every prison flick


    Poor Joe. :( I feel bad for him now.

    Actually, not really, cuz he's stupid enough to be a drunk driver.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #5 - April 08, 2012, 06:29 PM

    FINE! That's the last time I make even a halfway serious thread! tickedoff

    Maybe next time type them out without so many rhetorical frills? ^_^

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #6 - April 08, 2012, 06:34 PM

    Anyway, I kinda agree with the thesis that justice should give less importance to consequences:
    An attempted murder should be judged as seriously as a successful murder.
    A behavior that can knowingly lead to accidental death should be judged as seriously as an accidental manslaughter.

    This is because I do not believe that justice should satisfy any desire for revenge, but it should simply be a tool to protect humans from harm.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #7 - April 08, 2012, 06:53 PM

    I wonder what the common sentence is for getting into a fight with someone and accidentally killing them.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #8 - April 08, 2012, 07:25 PM

    Yes I have repeatedly claimed the exact same thing when it comes to drunk driving. So I suppose I have nothing to add.

    And Prince -- it is called manslaughter. And yes the punishments for manslaughter are typically less than murder (despite the fact that the name sounds a lot more brutal!)
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #9 - April 08, 2012, 07:43 PM

    I know what manslaughter is Tongue

    But the sentences vary wildly depending on the circumstance it seems, I'm not sure where brawls rank.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #10 - April 08, 2012, 08:07 PM

    I wonder what the common sentence is for getting into a fight with someone and accidentally killing them.


    Depends on jurisdiction and the circumstances. Pound somebody's head in with your foot after they're already on the ground, they could get ya for second degree murder. Just punch a guy too hard and cause a concussion that kills him-- well, if you started the fight it's probably manslaughter, but if he struck the first blow might not even get charged with anything besides disorderly conduct and/or affray-- dude just walked up to you without any words, punched you, you punched him back and he dies, and you can prove it, probably walk without anything.

    And just a little FYI-- as far as I know in all states in the US drunk driving first offense is criminal conviction, fine, and suspended license, and in some states even first offense carries mandatory jail time.

    fuck you
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #11 - April 08, 2012, 10:02 PM

    Excerpt from this article :

    http://politiken.dk/debat/ECE1545204/faar-offeret-ogsaa-en-chance-til/
     
    Quote
    He mutilated my body and face with a heavy water pipe.

    Then he threw my unconscious body from the third floor window of my flat (11 meters). That was three years ago. I had started my career in the fashion industry, was active and cheerful. That life exists now only in feelings of great loss and in pictures. Today I am 50 percent disabled, and at the age of 29 I am no longer able to work. After three years of extensive operations I am now about to start in a rehabilitation center for people with brain injuries.


    Contrary to this the offender is, after  the same three years, effectively a free man, although he was sentenced to six years in prison. At star chef Claus Meyer he gets an apprenticeship as a reward for having served half of an already too short sentence. Claus Meyer is happy and proud.

    Why do I choose to stand up and tell my story? I cannot keep silent any longer.


    Despite the fact that it involves a personal security risk, I choose now to speak. Some victims have to come forward, because the truth is that Denmark - as seen from the victim's point of view - has developed a terrible legal system, which in my case makes it even harder to move on. The problem is that we have completely forgotten who we should be assisting though it should really be quite simple: First Help the victim. Second Help the offender. In Denmark it is unfortunately just the opposite, and  my story is an example of this..


    Marlene Duus before and after the attack :



    He intended to kill her and she should have died. That she did not is a miracle and his luck, which meant that he only got 6 years instead of the 12 years that murder carries. I don´t think, that her miraculous survival should benefit him.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #12 - April 08, 2012, 10:14 PM

    Attempted murder doesnt usually carry the same sentence as murder.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Sentence by consequence
     Reply #13 - April 08, 2012, 10:20 PM

    Yeah, but in this case it was a pretty white woman. The Danes need to rewrite all their laws not based on sound social policy but on emotional appeals arising from high-profile crimes, like we do here in America, and you can see how well that's worked for us!

    fuck you
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »