do they really believe

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- monstart
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do they really believe
OP - May 18, 2012, 10:59 AM

do you ever wonder how much religious people really believe in their religion?

I recently heard an argument from a muslim saying "we know there is one god because if there were more they would be fighting with eachother"...? what kind of argument is that but the guy was tottally serious and it got me thinking about how much believers actually believe the things they say, if you really believed that this life determines where you are going to spend eternity, then why don't they all devote their lives to it and be perfect muslims?, if you truly believed this life being a test you would be crazy not to try and do the best you can, but most of them dont do the best they can. It reminded me of somthing i read from richard Dawkins, he spoke of how it's strange religious people find death sad, surely you should be happy when a child gets a terminal illness, they are going to see god and go to paradise!
- Al-Ma`arri
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #1 - May 18, 2012, 12:16 PM

My personal experience is that some Muslims really know its all hoax and bullshit, but are afraid to admit it to themselves. I am not talking about other people, but even for themselves. I will presume many of us apostates had difficulties even to say it loud alone the first time: "I am not a Muslim...I am an Atheist/Agnostic/Deist etc".

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

- John Keats
- yeezevee
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #2 - May 18, 2012, 12:32 PM

Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on May 18, 2012, 12:16 PM

My personal experience is that some Muslims really know its all hoax and bullshit, but are afraid to admit it to themselves. I am not talking about other people, but even for themselves. I will presume many of us apostates had difficulties even to say it loud alone the first time: "I am not a Muslim...I am an Atheist/Agnostic/Deist etc".

For a Muslim to say that word "I am not a Muslim" in an Islamic society/community with in family / dinner time etc..etc. means loosing all of his/her near and dear friends/relatives/social functions ..etc..etc..

Muslim families accept if you say that "you are a Muslim Atheist or Muslin Agnostic or Muslim Deist ..." then the community will accept you, not only that some times you get more respect from them than mullah preachers and Islamic teachers...lol..

So use that Taqiyya 16.106 whenever it is necessary ...lol..

016.106 : He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, ~~not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith~~, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- totalweirdo
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #3 - May 18, 2012, 04:57 PM

interesting

logcially if i believed that God existed- my whole existence would be doing whatever he says.

majority of "Muslims" dont, they follow half/heartedly. how can they state they love perfection, therefore God consumes their mind all the time, when in reality they choose bits of the religeon they like- adding practices just to control those around them.

"the question is" said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be the master- that`s all."
Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking- Glass.
- dr_sloth
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #4 - May 18, 2012, 05:41 PM

quran 21:22 "If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both"

They don't just make up this nonsense on the spot. Almost all of their arguments come from the quran. Everything already has an answer. Islam seems to negate the need for thinking; and it shows.
- Eternity
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #5 - May 18, 2012, 06:30 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on May 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
quran 21:22 "If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both"

They don't just make up this nonsense on the spot. Almost all of their arguments come from the quran. Everything already has an answer. Islam seems to negate the need for thinking; and it shows.

Unless of course either god know nothing of each other or are on a different plane of existing so no arguing going on. I guess when people read that passage they think if Zeus and all the gods of Greek in Olympia fighting for decisions lol.

I'll tell you this most muslims I know never go to deep into their religion. It's always the harmless(if seemingly) beliefs they hold on to or flaunt to others. Belief in Allah, Peace in Islam, Fasting, prayer, Hajji. Outside of those things nothing ever comes up in discussion. If you did people would consider you a extremist and that imo is sad. Most people I know who aren't muslim think the modest Muslims have it right and anyone posing bad things about islam clearly doesn't know anything about it or they actually mean extremist or radicals. When will people know it's both the same thing just different looks at it.
- chepea
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #6 - May 18, 2012, 07:35 PM

Quote from: monstart on May 18, 2012, 10:59 AM
do you ever wonder how much religious people really believe in their religion?

I recently heard an argument from a muslim saying "we know there is one god because if there were more they would be fighting with eachother"...? what kind of argument is that but the guy was tottally serious and it got me thinking about how much believers actually believe the things they say, if you really believed that this life determines where you are going to spend eternity, then why don't they all devote their lives to it and be perfect muslims?, if you truly believed this life being a test you would be crazy not to try and do the best you can, but most of them dont do the best they can. It reminded me of somthing i read from richard Dawkins, he spoke of how it's strange religious people find death sad, surely you should be happy when a child gets a terminal illness, they are going to see god and go to paradise!

I truly 100% believed in Islam for a two or so years, very much so. I don't think I was lying to myself. When I had doubts, I chalked them up to laziness (which, to be fair, they were often caused by ).

I sometimes wonder how much a harsh Muslim believes in Islam, since he's clearly twisting it to fit his own agenda. But I know some people whom I think fully believe in their religion.

It does help that in Islamic thought, faith isn't static i.e. it goes through ups and downs, so doubts can be seen as 'downs' in faith. The concern being if the faith remains low, not the validity of the doubt itself (which is taken to be false, obviously).

As for the gods thing, the argument is similar to how you need one leader, you can't have a whole bunch for an ordered society or whatever. Maybe the Muslim didn't put it very well. It's throughout the Qur'an, how if God is all-powerful and stuff, why worship other gods, blah blah blah.

Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

Expect me to come back a Muslim. j/k we'll see..
- Jinn and Tonic
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #7 - May 18, 2012, 07:42 PM

When i was a die hard xian, the hardest thing was to admit
when i left, that i was not a christian. It was actually very scary
for me, because of ALL that entailed.

However, when i left islam, it wasnt as hard, but i can understand
why muslims are reluctant to say this because of
all the possible consequences.

Yep. religion has us under so much spiritual blackmail, it makes
it difficult for many to finally let go of it all.

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
- yeezevee
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Re: do they really believe
Reply #8 - May 18, 2012, 08:08 PM

Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on May 18, 2012, 07:42 PM
When i was a die hard xian

.... when i left islam, it wasnt as hard,............

So you were die hard xian .. die hard Muslim and Now diehard Anti xian and diehard antiIslamist

You seem to be running in to these die hard characters, I wonder whether Jinn or Tonic drinking might have that effect on Jinn and Tonic??

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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