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 Topic: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism

 (Read 6128 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     OP - May 22, 2012, 01:09 PM
    Enjoy!

    http://www.pointofinquiry.org/johan_braeckman_the_rise_of_islamic_creationism/

    I was listening to the above podcast this morning from CFI. The chap being interviewed made some remarks about Muslims attitude towards evolution and how they can embrace it. I thought some of the remarks were rather naive on his part and showed some misunderstanding of how Muslims treat the Quran and Hadith.
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #1 - May 22, 2012, 01:56 PM
    Thanks! I am listening to it now.  

    I think the problem (is from your comment) is that he is using "Christian glasses" on the subject? In Christianity Jesus is more important than the Bible, in Islam Allah/Quran is comparable to this importance of Jesus in the Bible.
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #2 - May 22, 2012, 09:12 PM
    Quote
    And in this case, perhaps the most disturbing story out of the conference involved the spread of a new form of creationism—namely, Islamic creationism—in Europe.


    Oh yes, it's disturbing that there are people who dare to be skeptical about the claims of Darwinism and modern cosmology. That kind of skepticism we just can't have.

    I'd have thought people who are universally 'skeptical' and 'free thinking' would be perfectly fine with dissenting views on the nature of things. Surely thinking that the beliefs of others are 'disturbing' could only come about by contrasting them with your own firmly held beliefs about reality, but then how could you call yourself a skeptic or a freethinker if you have opinions that are just as firmly held as those of the religionists?
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #3 - May 22, 2012, 09:24 PM
    Roll Eyes
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #4 - May 22, 2012, 09:43 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on May 22, 2012, 09:12 PM
    Oh yes, it's disturbing that there are people who dare to be skeptical about the claims of Darwinism and modern cosmology. That kind of skepticism we just can't have.

    I'd have thought people who are universally 'skeptical' and 'free thinking' would be perfectly fine with dissenting views on the nature of things. Surely thinking that the beliefs of others are 'disturbing' could only come about by contrasting them with your own firmly held beliefs about reality, but then how could you call yourself a skeptic or a freethinker if you have opinions that are just as firmly held as those of the religionists?

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #5 - May 22, 2012, 09:51 PM
    Seriously though, is it not the case that people who pompously call themselves 'freethinkers' and 'skeptics' are actually every bit as committed to their beliefs as any religionist, and all the while they seem to think that they have no ideology at all? Take the example of Lawrence Krauss who said in a debate, with a straight face, "I have no ideology."

    I guess this is largely due to the fact that they equate their own beliefs with the truth, while the beliefs of others are really only beliefs. But in this way, they confuse the necessarily artificial and conceptual understanding of reality (accurate or not) with reality itself, and since they think their beliefs correspond to reality, they lead themselves to think that they have no beliefs at all.
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #6 - May 22, 2012, 09:52 PM
    But I'd like to say, if what I write is nonsense, then please feel free to correct me. I'd rather that than misunderstand someone.
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #7 - May 22, 2012, 09:52 PM
    Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on May 22, 2012, 09:43 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    lol
  • Re: The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #8 - May 22, 2012, 09:54 PM
    Stop navel gazing and get practical.

    It is perfectly fine for somebody to be concerned about the spread of creationism. Note that nobody is proposing burning creationist literature or burning creationists, or anything even close to that. Somebody is just expressing their personal opinion that if there is a growing group of people who are prepared to deny all the evidence simply because they would prefer to believe something else, then this is grounds for concern.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Johan Braeckman - The Rise of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #9 - May 24, 2012, 12:10 AM
    http://www.pointofinquiry.org/johan_braeckman_the_rise_of_islamic_creationism

    thoughts ?
  • Re: Johan Braeckman - The Rise of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #10 - May 24, 2012, 09:54 AM
    Please take a quick look at the forums before making new threads.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20854.0
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #11 - February 16, 2014, 11:25 PM
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #12 - February 16, 2014, 11:29 PM
    If it wasn't for brothers and sisters fucking each other we wouldn't be here would we?

    Ah....Allah's absolute morality.  mysmilie_977
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #13 - February 16, 2014, 11:32 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on February 16, 2014, 11:25 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

     Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #14 - February 17, 2014, 02:32 AM
    Not in the Bible. In the Christian texts it makes clear that the Sons of God married the Daughters of Man.
    Like there were two groups.
    That is in Genesis. I do not know how it comes up in Hebrew, though, so perhaps the Tanakh says something else.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #15 - February 17, 2014, 02:42 AM
    You on about the angels who knocked up human women and began the race of giants?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #16 - February 17, 2014, 03:13 AM
    I don't know anything about the size, but if you check the genealogies the life spans get shorter and shorter, and the first generation does not die, just goes to sleep or something.
    It's been a long time since I read it, but I don't mean angels. It says Sons of God, and I took that to mean God's "chosen" people.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #17 - February 17, 2014, 03:34 AM
    I'm fairly certain giants and other warriors were the offspring of human/angel coupling.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #18 - February 17, 2014, 04:07 AM
    I wonder if there are any myths like that in Islam. I never heard any.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #19 - February 17, 2014, 04:47 AM
    Theologically islam is boring.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #20 - February 17, 2014, 04:58 AM
    The sons of god is talking about angels. The nephilim were the offspring of angel and human mating. Many of the hostile people surrounding the Israelite were either offspring of Nephilim or worshiped them as gods. It was a neat little package one can use to demonize any people they wanted. This goes further into Noah's flood, the tower of Babel, curse of Ham, Cain and chosen people. The chosen people were the ones which would defeat the hybrids and bring righteousness of god to the people, ie normal humans. It's tinfoil hats stuff these days liberal Christians skip over.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #21 - February 17, 2014, 10:49 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on February 16, 2014, 11:29 PM
    If it wasn't for brothers and sisters fucking each other we wouldn't be here would we?

    Ah....Allah's absolute morality.  mysmilie_977


    I wonder why didn't God create several pairs of Adam and Eve so that incest, which is forbidden, won't take place? Gods and prophets are always contradicting themselves.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #22 - February 17, 2014, 10:59 AM
    Maybe God has some kind of fascination/unfulfilled fnatasy of watching; producing and directing his very own incest porn.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #23 - February 17, 2014, 10:55 PM
    Quote from: Rubaya on February 17, 2014, 10:49 AM
    I wonder why didn't God create several pairs of Adam and Eve so that incest, which is forbidden, won't take place? Gods and prophets are always contradicting themselves.

    I did hear once that Adam originally meant men as opposed to one man. I may have to look into jewish theology to see if the original story actually is one man one woman or several men and women.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #24 - February 17, 2014, 11:02 PM
    Quod, you are right the word can mean man in general, depends on the verse.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H120&t=KJV
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #25 - February 17, 2014, 11:15 PM
    Thanks bogart Afro
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #26 - February 18, 2014, 01:45 AM
    Quote from: bogart on February 17, 2014, 04:58 AM
    The sons of god is talking about angels. The nephilim were the offspring of angel and human mating. Many of the hostile people surrounding the Israelite were either offspring of Nephilim or worshiped them as gods. It was a neat little package one can use to demonize any people they wanted. This goes further into Noah's flood, the tower of Babel, curse of Ham, Cain and chosen people. The chosen people were the ones which would defeat the hybrids and bring righteousness of god to the people, ie normal humans. It's tinfoil hats stuff these days liberal Christians skip over.


    No, this was Genesis. Not anywhere near the time of the Israelites.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #27 - February 19, 2014, 12:50 AM
    Yes it was in Genesis but the idea in Genesis was used to demonize neighboring cultures which fought many wars with the Israelite. Some of the foreign gods were viewed as demon spirits which belonged to dead nephilim. Also bare in mind a few of the demons of hell are gods of other pantheons, Baal for example.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #28 - February 23, 2014, 03:42 PM
    I actually do not recall Baal being mentioned as a demon in the Bible, I remember in the Old Testament that Baal was a god of another people. Maybe I missed something.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Rise Of Islamic Creationism
     Reply #29 - February 23, 2014, 04:03 PM
    Beelzebub is a demon in Jewish Bible. Baal was once used as a title before the meaning shifted to spirit worship, as the Israelites saw it, which was a general term applied to many. Baal was a figure in Egyptian, Philistine, Phoenician and later Carthage pantheons. If you flip through the references to Baal and Beelzebub you will see the Israelite view change from book to book. A lot of these changes had to do with foreign cultures influencing the Israelite. Kings worshiping idols, oppressing the people or leading them astray. There are similarities between both figures which links the theory of adaptation within Judaism. if you look at Ugaritic sources.

     In Christianity all pagan gods are seen as demons which corrupt men away from the worship of god.
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