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Theme Changer

 Topic: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...

 (Read 10780 times)
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  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #30 - July 18, 2012, 01:18 AM

    How are you doing Lynna.. I hope you are out of that headache ... but I wonder when you wrote  this in the first place So i read those highlighted words of yours and started writing gibberish., that is my fault.
     But   Lynna,  do you believe that ...."the God  created all things "?? ....
    .... just curious
    with best wishes
    yeezevee



    Yes Yeezevee,  I do believe there is a God who created all things except himself.


















    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #31 - July 18, 2012, 02:33 AM

    Quote
    How are you doing Lynna.. I hope you are out of that headache ... but I wonder when you wrote  this in the first place So i read those highlighted words of yours and started writing gibberish., that is my fault.

     But   Lynna,  do you believe that ...."the God  created all things "?? ....

    .... just curious.

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Yes Yeezevee,  I do believe there is a God who created all things except himself.



    So God created everything and That god happens to be "He" ??


    Why should god be He??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #32 - July 18, 2012, 03:03 AM

    elaborate on this, please lynna


    Okay you are asking me to elaborate on what I mean by "not let prejudice interfere with helping people" in this case that have children that have special needs either medical or educational that many attribute these problems to evil spirits and run the risk of turning to unsafe exorcism practices.

    This conversation started out with a great deal of angry about the torture death of a young girl with special needs at the hand of a "exorcist". Anger is an appropriate emotion in this situation. However where is it best directed and how is effort best exerted to prevent this circumstance in future.

    What I'm saying is the people (doctors, nurses, case managers, social workers, police, judges, teachers, neighbors,  clergy, family, village elders, whoever) that are to help families in this situation my put aside their personal opinions, biases and prejudices for the sake of the child's well being. So as a person in a helping position you think the family has the most stupid religious beliefs under the sun if it isn't directly endangering the child it is none of your business and a waste of your energy to deal with it. Educate and assure that the child's problems are caused by a legitimate condition. Whatever it is Autism or Cerebral Palsy or whatever. If the parents want to keep believing in evil spirits there is no easy fix and any attempt to do so will likely shut access to helping with the child's actual problems. People have the right to their choices as long as they are not going to end up murdering their children. So if you're the nurse or nieghbor or teacher your have to put your prejudices against the parents believes aside and start to help from where the parent will accept the help.

    Just like with any of us if there is something that needs to change in our life. We may or may not recognize that we need to make the change. We are more willing to accept assistance from people who are not threatening and overbearing.  Change from where we are at is easier then something that is totally different.



    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #33 - July 18, 2012, 03:10 AM

    So God created everything and That god happens to be "He" ??
    Why should god be He??



    Because "He" is our father in heaven. But really in "He" is a spirit so it not the same as people. But if you what to agrue about it I'll have to look stuff up because I don't care.





    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #34 - July 18, 2012, 03:58 AM

    Quote
    It was mentioned by someone that perhaps after the girls dead as a result of the exorcism that life should just go on oh well to bad. I don't know who would honestly suggest that except the murder or some one with no real mercy and human compassion and empathy. I can only imagen the parents great sadness. Yes, they may have sincerely believed what they were doing was right but they were wrong. What greater loss could they suffer for their misinformation? The thing is a person can only do the best they can do with rhetoric information they have at the time.


    elaborate on this, please lynna
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #35 - July 18, 2012, 12:11 PM

    Because "He" is our father in heaven. But really in "He" is a spirit so it not the same as people. But if you what to agrue about it I'll have to look stuff up because I don't care.






     Hmm Lynna...   good stuff .. good stuff from you..  I am confused here.. utterly confused Lynna.,   Are you speaking about Jesus Christ here ?  or there is another "he" god??



    yes.. yes.. HE is our father ..father of everything .. Chemical materials and biological materials... but I wonder about mother of everything ..

    Do you think this "GOD" could be Father and mother of everything  and produced everything from his/her womb  Lynna??


    And I am still afraid of women with those James Bond 007 glasses..  Anyways PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER if you think that  I am asking too many personal questions.


    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #36 - July 18, 2012, 01:27 PM


    It was mentioned by someone that perhaps after the girls dead as a result of the exorcism that life should just go on oh well to bad. I don't know who would honestly suggest that except the murder or some one with no real mercy and human compassion and empathy. I can only imagen the parents great sadness. Yes, they may have sincerely believed what they were doing was right but they were wrong. What greater loss could they suffer for their misinformation? The thing is a person can only do the best they can do with rhetoric information they have at the time.

    elaborate on this, please lynna


    In my statement that you are asking me to explain I don't know why rhetoric appears in the statement. It doesn't belong there. I don't know somethings I choose the wrong word and my program is suppose to auto correct. Well sometimes it ends up with some strange stuff that I don't catch or sometimes it will correct it right and I'll go ahead and override it wrong again. Oh well. Anyhow leave out "rhetoric" it doesn't have anything to do with the sentence.

    Okay now to the situation. We don't know for sure if the parents had a sincere religious belief that the exorcism was the right thing to do. That is only one of the possibilities. They could have only had minimal belief in exorcisms and tired it desperately tiring to help their daughter. The parents may or may not of had adequate and consistent education about the real actual cause of their daughter's problems. We are not given that information. We are left for the most part to assume about this situation (unless Yeezevee info "wizard" posts it). However we are not told that abuse chargers or murder chargers are being pressed against the parents. So with that thought in mind I would think it is reasonable to assume that the parents believed with the information available to them that they were acting in the best interest of their daughter. It however became very evident to them that they didnt have the best information when their daughter ended up dieing. Now what?

    Can it be imagined the guilty and horror these parents feel? Being taken in to the point of allowing their child to be beaten to death. Indeed what now. How do they move on. They've just suffered a great loss it will be along road to completing the grieving. A way to help make it a tiny bit easier is the assurance that they did the best they could have with the information they had at the time. If people on the outside of the situation have this attitude toward the parents it allows the parents to see they are not condemned in the eyes of others and also in a non condescending way it allows them to to see they can seek better information. This makes it a win situations in the face of great loss. Perhaps by giving the parents one thread this one thread of dignity they could then become advocates for better parent education for children with disabilities because they well know what their lack of knowledge lead to.









    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #37 - July 18, 2012, 02:22 PM

    Hmm Lynna...   good stuff .. good stuff from you..  I am confused here.. utterly confused Lynna.,   Are you speaking about Jesus Christ here ?  or there is another "he" god??
    yes.. yes.. HE is our father ..father of everything .. Chemical materials and biological materials... but I wonder about mother of everything ..
    Do you think this "GOD" could be Father and mother of everything  and produced everything from his/her womb  Lynna?
    And I am still afraide of women with those James Bond 007 glasses..  Anyways PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER if you think that  I am asking too many personal questions.with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Don't worry about avatar Yeezevee.  That is picture of me just before I walk into prison for work when I posted it I said "LOL picture of me looking like enforce not like me". When I was in Academy to work at prison everyday the instructor would ask me what on earth I thought that sweet smile would get me.  So I learned enforcer face.

    Jesus is not God. Jesus is the first creation of God according to the Bible.

    God is a spirit and does not have sex in the sense that humans do. There is a lot of symbolic stuff in the. Bible it just works out father.  Like I said not a problem for me if you actually would like me to post something about it I will look it up for you and post. However for myself it's not a big problem I'm not so insecure that I need God to be a woman or have a woman's image. I'm wonderfully made without that mind picture.


    With all kindness Lynna










    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #38 - July 19, 2012, 01:11 AM

    In my statement that you are asking me to explain I don't know why rhetoric appears in the statement. It doesn't belong there. I don't know somethings I choose the wrong word and my program is suppose to auto correct. Well sometimes it ends up with some strange stuff that I don't catch or sometimes it will correct it right and I'll go ahead and override it wrong again. Oh well. Anyhow leave out "rhetoric" it doesn't have anything to do with the sentence.

    Okay now to the situation. We don't know for sure if the parents had a sincere religious belief that the exorcism was the right thing to do. That is only one of the possibilities. They could have only had minimal belief in exorcisms and tired it desperately tiring to help their daughter. The parents may or may not of had adequate and consistent education about the real actual cause of their daughter's problems. We are not given that information. We are left for the most part to assume about this situation (unless Yeezevee info "wizard" posts it). However we are not told that abuse chargers or murder chargers are being pressed against the parents. So with that thought in mind I would think it is reasonable to assume that the parents believed with the information available to them that they were acting in the best interest of their daughter. It however became very evident to them that they didnt have the best information when their daughter ended up dieing. Now what?

    Can it be imagined the guilty and horror these parents feel? Being taken in to the point of allowing their child to be beaten to death. Indeed what now. How do they move on. They've just suffered a great loss it will be along road to completing the grieving. A way to help make it a tiny bit easier is the assurance that they did the best they could have with the information they had at the time. If people on the outside of the situation have this attitude toward the parents it allows the parents to see they are not condemned in the eyes of others and also in a non condescending way it allows them to to see they can seek better information. This makes it a win situations in the face of great loss. Perhaps by giving the parents one thread this one thread of dignity they could then become advocates for better parent education for children with disabilities because they well know what their lack of knowledge lead to.



  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #39 - July 19, 2012, 03:30 AM



    ^Please elaborate.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #40 - July 19, 2012, 06:22 AM

    Quote
    Okay now to the situation. We don't know for sure if the parents had a sincere religious belief that the exorcism was the right thing to do. That is only one of the possibilities. They could have only had minimal belief in exorcisms and tired it desperately tiring to help their daughter.


    Quote
    Worse still, the girl’s parents insisted that she had fallen a victim to evil spirits and their ‘pir’ had nothing to do with it.


    Quote
    The postmortem report stated “broken neck” led to the girl’s death. The police claimed the thug was immediately absolved of the crime as the girl’s father said “it is a sin to blame the pir”.


    but yeah, it's still a newspaper report quote mined by me
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #41 - July 19, 2012, 08:12 AM

    I'm suggesting, freedom from religious influences, recruitment, birthright religion status until the age of individuals independence(?) and the freedom to choose or from it

    sorry if it sound too crazy ..
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #42 - July 19, 2012, 01:37 PM

    but yeah, it's still a newspaper report quote mined by me

    As of yet I have been unable to figure how to cut and paste with the program on my cell. So you do it look to see if even if the parents did not want to blame the exorcist that the police or not in fact pursuing him for the crime of murder and not the parents. In my explanation I did leave room for the fact that the police and legal system as far as I could see in the articles available are not pursuing action against the parents.
     
    However recall I work in a prison. I am daily at work in the position of doing education with men who have been found guilty of crimes.

    The non condemning format is not something I di not make up in my own head it also is not something I disagree with.

    What I was asking you for by asking you to elaborate was a better educational plan. Please do elaborate on that. 

    So how do you think the parents should be approached?
    With what is the best place to start?
    Why will they listen to you?

    Tell me your educational plan give some examples.. Just don't tell me FAIL. That is easy. But every day that I got work and also on my time off I spread time making a difference working a plan.  So you prove to me you got more then easy post a picture and cut and paste you tell a plan and what do. Okay.

    Because I can give you account after account of how the non condemning start where the person is at show some personal concern format works. Yes inch by inch little by little so what if not in every case but if in any case it is worth it. Not just my personal account but that is how at college they teach teachers to teach special needs students. Very basic discription of it.

    Anyhow now you tell me the better thing that you are doing because I really do like to know about other programs that work . That way when I am frustrated with a low success I'll see if your plan is doable.

    I know you have some personal experience with being exMuslim and feeling not very accepted or safe. So this crime no doubt makes you very angry. Perhaps you even think I am unfair to ask you how would you help the parents deal with their grief and come to a better understanding and be able to move on and help others. Remember when I am at that prison some of those men are rapist and child molesters both crimes of which I have been a victim. They never know. I treat them the same as the next man. I do this for me as much as for them.

    Please let me know if I am not explaining very well.











    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #43 - July 19, 2012, 04:08 PM

    I'm suggesting, freedom from religious influences, recruitment, birthright religion status until the age of individuals independence(?) and the freedom to choose or from it

    sorry if it sound too crazy ..


    Tell me how this works in the case of what we are talking about. Or life in general however you please.

    Put it in real terms not a vacuum. Who will teach your children? No duh?!?! You and your wife. Believe me if you don't someone else will,

    Who can you be influenced by?
    By someone telling you that you're a f***ing idiot. Not hardly. Mostly because you're not. You have the right to chose for you and your minor children. But once you start choosing for other people you are no better then the people who are attempting to choose for you.

    So to attempt to change the parents religion in the case in question would be an infringement of their rights because it is not necessary in changing their idea about their daughter. I already explained that. Was I unclear?



    !







    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #44 - July 19, 2012, 06:07 PM

    Quote
    I'm suggesting, freedom from religious influences, recruitment, birthright religion status until the age of individuals independence(?) and the freedom to choose or from it

     

    no lynna, I'm talking about preventive measures, in this I think it'll make parents think twice incorporating ritualistic nonsenses to their kid,

    advancement in knowledge, materials, wealth doesn't stop this from happening, Its just take another form, parents still have right over their kids even if they're institutionalized in an asylum eventhough the child opposed the parents belief, or trying to find others that conform, well there's shariah

    as for the cases, the thug is free, on bail now, I'm not so sure how things work there, but if it's Islamic, there's a system like this, see below

    +++
     
    Qisas and Diyat Ordinance 1990

    With the passing of the Qisas and Diyat Ordinance in 1990, the victim (or heirs of the victim) of a crime now have the right to inflict injuries on the offender identical to the ones sustained by the victim. The law also allows offenders to absolve themselves of the crime by paying compensation to the victim or their heirs if, and only if, the family of the victim is willing to accept it.

     +++

    I don't think its bode well with me, thinking that people like this get on the street, absolved of the crime

    As for the parents, I'm not soo sure of it, let see what will happen to 'pir whatchamacallit' thing first

    or if you desire so, go ahead, formulate whatever you want then, be my guest

    as for the meme, sorry lynna you strike first using ad-hominem against me, 1:1 aye, peace grin12
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #45 - July 19, 2012, 06:50 PM

    Quote
    As of yet I have been unable to figure how to cut and paste with the program on my cell. So you do it look to see if even if the parents did not want to blame the exorcist that the police or not in fact pursuing him for the crime of murder and not the parents. In my explanation I did leave room for the fact that the police and legal system as far as I could see in the articles available are not pursuing action against the parents.


    lynna, forgot to mention, you're using Samsung notes, yes ?

    you might want to try 'evernote' application from the 'market' or is it 'play store' now ?  I'm not so sure, it'll ease you a lot, happy exploring  Smiley
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #46 - July 20, 2012, 12:28 AM

    Quote
    I know you have some personal experience with being exMuslim and feeling not very accepted or safe. So this crime no doubt makes you very angry.


     Kiss

    elaborate on this, please lynna ..
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #47 - July 20, 2012, 11:04 AM


    No lynna, I'm talking about preventive measures, in this I think it'll make parents think twice incorporating ritualistic nonsenses to their kid,

    advancement in knowledge, materials, wealth doesn't stop this from happening, Its just take another form, parents still have right over their kids even if they're institutionalized in an asylum eventhough the child opposed the parents belief, or trying to find others that conform, well there's shariah

    as for the cases, the thug is free, on bail now, I'm not so sure how things work there, but if it's Islamic, there's a system like this, see below

    +++
     
    Qisas and Diyat Ordinance 1990

    With the passing of the Qisas and Diyat Ordinance in 1990, the victim (or heirs of the victim) of a crime now have the right to inflict injuries on the offender identical to the ones sustained by the victim. The law also allows offenders to absolve themselves of the crime by paying compensation to the victim or their heirs if, and only if, the family of the victim is willing to accept it.

     +++

    I don't think its bode well with me, thinking that people like this get on the street, absolved of the crime

    As for the parents, I'm not soo sure of it, let see what will happen to 'pir whatchamacallit' thing first

    or if you desire so, go ahead, formulate whatever you want then, be my guest

    as for the meme, sorry lynna you strike first using ad-hominem against me, 1:1 aye, peace grin12



    no lynna, I'm talking about preventive measures, in this I think it'll make parents think twice incorporating ritualistic nonsenses to their kid,

    advancement in knowledge, materials, wealth doesn't stop this from happening, Its just take another form, parents still have right over their kids even if they're institutionalized in an asylum eventhough the child opposed the parents belief, or trying to find others that conform, well there's shariah

    as for the cases, the thug is free, on bail now, I'm not so sure how things work there, but if it's Islamic, there's a system like this, see below

    +++
     
    Qisas and Diyat Ordinance 1990

    With the passing of the Qisas and Diyat Ordinance in 1990, the victim (or heirs of the victim) of a crime now have the right to inflict injuries on the offender identical to the ones sustained by the victim. The law also allows offenders to absolve themselves of the crime by paying compensation to the victim or their heirs if, and only if, the family of the victim is willing to accept it.

     +++

    I don't think its bode well with me, thinking that people like this get on the street, absolved of the crime

    As for the parents, I'm not soo sure of it, let see what will happen to 'pir whatchamacallit' thing first

    or if you desire so, go ahead, formulate whatever you want then, be my guest

    as for the meme, sorry lynna you strike first using ad-hominem against me, 1:1 aye, peace grin12


    I do think the difference of what we are talking about as regard your first point is a tolerate society. Parents will always have the right to decide for their minor children except when it ends in permanent physical harm. Like female circumcision or something like that which has been agreed on in the international court.  The thing is when a child is living at a parents home the should be able to have them conform to house rules but should not be able to torture the child. So what many people who are here on this forum is wrong because it goes beyond obeying house rules for minor children. There was a total intolerance of anyone not accepting the religion of the family. This often in countries where the law of the land supported such intolerance. This is not a good situation. You know I am very religious. It is my thought it would be best for everyone to be of the same opinion but it would do them no good if they did not freely make that choice. So tolerance of choices is very important to me. When I talk to people at the prison I find out about what they believe and use that to help them improve there lot . Not necessarily because I think that is best but because that is a point of view they hold imprortant and useful.

    Same with children you perhaps have read what I have posted about my children's choices.

    Sorry if I am way to out spoken.

    *******

    Must get ready for work.








































    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #48 - July 20, 2012, 11:56 AM

    what is cooking here.. I am lost..
    ...................... You know I am very religious.................
      


    Huh! what ?? Lynna  you are religious??  


    I don't think so.. Religious people always smile.. you are not smiling with those biggg dark glasses on your face..



     Believe that crap


    with best wihses
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #49 - July 21, 2012, 02:05 PM

    Quote
    I do think the difference of what we are talking about as regard your first point is a tolerate society. Parents will always have the right to decide for their minor children except when it ends in permanent physical harm. Like female circumcision or something like that which has been agreed on in the international court.  The thing is when a child is living at a parents home the should be able to have them conform to house rules but should not be able to torture the child. So what many people who are here on this forum is wrong because it goes beyond obeying house rules for minor children. There was a total intolerance of anyone not accepting the religion of the family. This often in countries where the law of the land supported such intolerance. This is not a good situation. You know I am very religious. It is my thought it would be best for everyone to be of the same opinion but it would do them no good if they did not freely make that choice. So tolerance of choices is very important to me. When I talk to people at the prison I find out about what they believe and use that to help them improve there lot . Not necessarily because I think that is best but because that is a point of view they hold imprortant and useful.


    I think tolerance doesn't stand on it's own,

    and basically saying, you have right to your kid faith, belief, disbelief.. how do you enforce that, how do you know your children really belief ?
    base on your belief ?
























    on a side note, why the hell you and yeezevee, posting in a weird way, leaving much room for comments , is this is war of word or what ..
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #50 - July 21, 2012, 08:14 PM

    I think tolerance doesn't stand on it's own,

    and basically saying, you have right to your kid faith, belief, disbelief.. how do you enforce that, how do you know your children really belief ?
    base on your belief ?

    on a side note, why the hell you and yeezevee, posting in a weird way, leaving much room for comments , is this is war of word or what ..


    your first point

    Tolerance doesn't stand alone. However it is the beginning of many things. If a person can not even be tolerant of another person on any level how can they even be in each others presence let alone come  some kind of agreement about differences of view point?


    next point point

    I said minor children. That would be children who are still physically,  mentally, emotionally immature and in the care of their parent. That means the parents are responsible legally and morally to do what they understand to be in the best interest of the child. Since the the child is of an age and ability that the parents can't just simple put them out on the curb the parent must decide on their behalf. A reasonable parent will be teaching the child the process of deciding things. That way when the child is on their own they will be prepared. Parents should know what their children's beliefs and opinions are because they communicate with each other. Sometimes that is not easy because of the way children and parents are emotionally invested in each other. However it is worth the effort to maintain the relationship in my opinion.
    Once a person is an adult and responsible for their own stuff well then they are then responsible for what every choices they make .


    YOUR LAST POINT

    Not sure exactly what you mean about posting in such a weird way. Please clarify.




    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #51 - July 22, 2012, 06:25 AM

    Quote
    Tolerance doesn't stand alone. However it is the beginning of many things. If a person can not even be tolerant of another person on any level how can they even be in each others presence let alone come  some kind of agreement about differences of view point?


    agreed,

    how do you tolerate parent that want to excorcised you

    Quote
    I said minor children. That would be children who are still physically,  mentally, emotionally immature and in the care of their parent. That means the parents are responsible legally and morally to do what they understand to be in the best interest of the child. Since the the child is of an age and ability that the parents can't just simple put them out on the curb the parent must decide on their behalf. A reasonable parent will be teaching the child the process of deciding things. That way when the child is on their own they will be prepared. Parents should know what their children's beliefs and opinions are because they communicate with each other. Sometimes that is not easy because of the way children and parents are emotionally invested in each other. However it is worth the effort to maintain the relationship in my opinion.
    Once a person is an adult and responsible for their own stuff well then they are then responsible for what every choices they make .


    'how do you know your children really belief' not 'how you supposed to raised your kid' , you're using parents rights on kids here, how are those right fare against mentally challenged kids, physical and psychological harm

    legally, parents are responsible to state, country law

    morally, doesn't mean you have to practices religion on your kid

    my point is, after all those years raising kids, lying to themselves, lying to your parent, being dishonest, in compliance under coercion then being adults, they disbelieve, disclose it, why not give them freedom to choose, keep religion a private matter, individuals, not practising on them, make them curious

    or do I misunderstand something, never been a parents before, scraps  my suggestions if you will, I don't think 'influence' is the right word


    last point ..
    it's not a point, a question lol ..


























    I mean this, vast space, void of word Tongue
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #52 - July 22, 2012, 10:40 PM

    (#1)
    how do you tolerate parent that want to excorcised you
    (#2)
    'how do you know your children really belief' not 'how you supposed to raised your kid' , you're using parents rights on kids here, how are those right fare against mentally challenged kids, physical and psychological harm

    legally, parents are responsible to state, country law

    morally, doesn't mean you have to practices religion on your kid

    my point is, after all those years raising kids, lying to themselves, lying to your parent, being dishonest, in compliance under coercion then being adults, they disbelieve, disclose it, why not give them freedom to choose, keep religion a private matter, individuals, not practising on them, make them curious

    or do I misunderstand something, never been a parents before, scraps  my suggestions if you will, I don't think 'influence' is the right word

    (#3)
    last point ..
    it's not a point, a question lol ..
    I mean this, vast space, void of word Tongue


    (#1)

    In the case of parents who would like to have an exorcism performed on their adult child or child at an age of accountability who is not agreeable then it would be the parent who would have to be tolerate of their child's position. This would not be so absolutely clear cut is all circumstances but freedom of conscious pretty much prevents somethings like a ritual being performed on someone who is not agreeable.

    (#2)

    How do you know what your children really believe? Hummm....besides what I already said about having conversations with them about what they believe. You look at how they live their life, what they talk about, how they take part or not in the congregation.  You are aware I am a Jehovah Witness. So the examples I will give you are from my point of view. At our meetings there are always question and answer parts. From the time my daughter was very young she loved to raise her hand to answer. She went through different stages and difficults but she was always willing to try. Just as a passing point she has some mild learning difficulties related to oxygen deprivation before birth and then being premature delivery.   When she was eight years old she asked me if she could be a publisher (takes what we call someone who counts their time talking to others about the Bible short explanation). Personally I thought this was kind of a young age for her but I said, "If you think you are old enough to talk to strangers about the Bible then you are certainly old enough to speak to the Elders yourself to see if you qualify." So she inquired which Elder she needed to spoke to and at the next meeting off she went. I saw her standing on a a chair speaking to him in a rather determined manner. After awhile he came over and confirmed the matter with me and an appointment was set up for her interview. My daughter would talk with two Elders to see if she had an understanding that qualified her to be a publisher. Because she was a small child at the time I was present for this interview. My daughter was 17 when she was baptized it is not until after baptism that even the children of Jehovahs. Witnesses are determined as Jehovahs Witnesses. That is a longer process.  The person must have studied. The person who studied with them must recommend them. They must request to be baptized.  They are interviewed by the Elders on three different occasions.  The person is aware of the question they will be asked. This is in line with Scriptures that the disciplines be taught ones able to observe all the things that Jesus commanded. My son on the other hand seldom wanted to answer on his own at meetings. He would raise his hand once or twice because that is what I required.  When he was little he went door to door with us however by the time he was a teen he was in so much trouble with the Police he was not allowed even if he had wanted to. It was my responsibility to try to straighten him out. So he was require to do his Bible study and attend meeting. For him at this point in his life more of the emphasis was put on principle like respect. He needed to respect me for feeding and clothing him and for the smooth running of the home not only was that Gods law but that was the law of the land. He needed to learn to be a good worker. That was not only Gods law that was logical. Does he believe in God now? I don't know he will say to me his sister and me have a better way of life. What he would say to you I don't know. He is the one who has spent most of his adult life in prison. You think that doesn't break a mothers heart? I however well know that only his choices can change that pattern. In December when he got out I was going to let him come home. In that circumstance I could not have require of him anything like when he was a child. Only I could stop him from doing in my house thing that I don't allow
    But  that is not stopping him from going elsewhere to do as he pleased. So who would be tolerating who?

    That is kind of a short explanation I guess because you could bring up so many possible circumstances all of which might call for some special consideration. But the end all is if you are living a way of life because you are convinced by evidence that is the correct and best way to live you're not likely to just give up on trying to help others.

    (#3)
    SPACE AT THE BOTTOM?
    Oh I think it might be because I put extra space on the screen so I dont have to wear my glasses but the writing will be big, but it isn't really so when I post then there is extra space because sometimes I remember to take it off and it isn't there.











    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #53 - July 23, 2012, 05:27 AM

    Quote
    So who would be tolerating who?


    you excorcised your son !?
     Huh?
    or are you regretting not exorcising him

    you're presenting your son as an argument here, Implying lack of belief is a poor choice for your son in his life, sorry to hear that

    I'll retire from my argument here, thank you
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #54 - July 23, 2012, 10:07 PM

    You asked me how I knew what they my children believed. I knew what they believe by their choices and how they live therir life. Believe me no exorcism was ever done on him. It is not even something that I personally would think is an option.

    You withdrawal from the argument?  Interesting I didn't know we were arguing.  And it is Avery interesting time to withdrawal before you have answered any of my question and before you have elaborated on your plan to work out the problem.

    It is very easy to.be critical of someone else's plan but it is a whole different thing to come up with what you would do.

    What have you tried to help your parents understand why you think Islam is wrong?

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #55 - September 20, 2012, 02:20 PM

    http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1636204 One of the progamm showed in finnish national TV.
    If there is a God and and he is a muslim, I would rather go to hell than in the heaven.
    I would not like to be in same place as the guy lying at 9:14 etc..

    :/
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #56 - September 20, 2012, 02:22 PM

    Sorry for posting the link abowe. There is written that you could watch the film only in Finland...:(

    There is a trailer to the film I originally mentioned.
    http://www.themilkhaus.com/project/saving-face-academy-award-winner-best-documentary-short-2012/

    :/
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #57 - September 20, 2012, 06:24 PM

     The  man from land of pure says he is proud of himself and would do it all again. He  shot his wife, mother-in-law, and sister-in-law dead

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIy90ZAfcsY
    Quote
    Kot Chutta, Pakistan (CNN) -- From behind the steel bars of his jail cell, Muhammad Ismail described with uncanny ease how he shot and killed his wife, his mother-in-law, and sister-in-law. "The first shot hit the side of her body," Ismail said. "I left her there and went next door and killed my wife's mother and sister. I made sure they were all dead. Then I locked the door and left the house."

    Without any apparent regret, Ismail said he would do it again.

    "I am proud of what I did. That's why I turned myself over to the police."

    Ismail's confession to the triple-murder that took place last February in a village in central Pakistan is a rare and chilling first-hand account of a so-called 'honor' killing -- the murder of women who are usually accused of dishonoring their families by being unfaithful or disobedient.Ismail accused his wife of eight months of repeatedly flirting with other men and spending long hours away from home.

    "My wife never made me happy," said the 20-year-old who played drums in a traditional Pakistani wedding band before his arrest. "She was like a prostitute. She never took care of me."

     that is what he says and that happened on August20 2012..  And another news today says Man shoots down wife, mother-in-law, stepson

    Quote
    LAHORE – A man shot dead his wife, mother-in-law and a stepson over a domestic dispute in the Green Town area, police said on Tuesday.

    The killer fled away from the crime scene and is still at large. Police investigators said that one Ubaid Ullah Pathan, along with his accomplice, stormed into the residence (504, Sector-C-I, Township) of his wife near Model Bazaar in the Green Town police vicinity late on Monday night.

    The man opened straight fire on his wife, her mother and children, and fled away from the crime scene within no time. As a result, three people – including Fatima Chaudhry, 41; her mother Khurshid Bibi; and teenage son Suleman – were killed; while Ibrahim sustained bullet wounds and was admitted to a hospital in serious condition.

    As rescuers rushed to the crime scene, they found two people lying dead with bullet injuries while another two were shifted to the Jinnah Hospital in serious condition, said a spokesperson of the Emergency Service (Rescue 1122). One of the wounded later succumbed to bullet injuries at the hospital.

    One of the injured told the police that Ubaid entered the house minutes after Fatima arrived on Monday night. After exchanging hot words with her over some monetary dispute, Ubaid got infuriated and opened fire on his stepson, Suleman, who had intervened to reconcile them. Fatima had contracted second marriage with Ubaid after the death of her first husband.


    another news from same news paper says SISTER SHOT DEAD:
    Quote
    In another incident, a youth killed his 18-year-old sister on the suspicion of illicit relations in the Manga Mandi area, police said on Tuesday. A resident of Nathokay, Muhammad Imran, shot dead his sister Saima Bibi at his residence and fled away from the crime scene. Police said the youth had suspicion that his sister had developed illicit relations with a man of the same area.

    Both the youth and his sister exchanged hot words over the issue. Imran got infuriated, took out his gun and killed her. The police have removed the body to the morgue for autopsy and are investigating.


    Third news says BURNT TO DEATH:
    Quote
    A mother of two was burnt to death under mysterious circumstances in the Samanabad area late on Monday night, police said. Saeed Ahmed, the husband of the deceased, told the police that Bushra Bibi locked herself in the bedroom and set herself on fire. However, Bushra’s parents alleged that she was set on fire by her in-laws at their residence situated on Karim Road. The police have removed the body to the morgue and are investigating.

    Why do these things happen so frequently in the citadel of Islam ??  allahgod knows the best..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #58 - September 20, 2012, 07:55 PM

    It's cultural ! Tongue if they practised 'true' Islam they wouldn't have done these things!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Blind religious beleifs and stupid religious nuts leads the society to...
     Reply #59 - September 23, 2012, 04:41 PM

    mo and all is the only true islam.
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