do you ever wonder if you are wrong?

Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
- strangestdude
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #30 - August 13, 2012, 04:57 PM

Quote from: monstart on August 13, 2012, 02:12 PM
thanks strangedude, il get round to buying them when i have time. i echo your thoughts when you speak of the strange emotional inclination towards the abrahamic narrative, i have never been a religious person or come from a religious family but there is something about islam for me and i can't put my finger on what it is. I do often feel a lack of direction and meaning in my life as somone without religion and i imagine that is where it stems from, that will have to be somthing i need to sort out if i want to put my mind at rest with islam.

These vids should help;

Loyal Rue explains what religion is;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH493NsM31Y

My story of needing an alternative religous narrative to Islam;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHy_EP-hlXw

Michael Dowd a relgious naturalist preacher gives a great talk;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDMOF7qtlh8

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #31 - August 13, 2012, 07:34 PM

Quote from: monstart on August 13, 2012, 02:12 PM

i made this thread after watching a convert to islam, Myriam Francois-Cerrah give a lecture on women in islam and shes has a PhD from oxford university and to me it is baffling how such a highly educated women can believe in Islam, as you can imagine she follows a very liberal version of islam, the topic of women witnesses came up and she said 'the Quran says IF you fear forgetfullness then two women' i don't know what translation she is following as i can't find that anywhere.

There are stupid people amongst the irreligious. I am the living, breathing embodiment of that. Yezeevee is another. Similarly, not everyone intelligent breaks free from religion, and from the desire to have religion in their lives. An Abrahamic God fulfils the need for hierarchy, for purpose and meaning, for comfort against the cruelty of death, for moral guidance, and to provide order in a universe that can make little sense. That it fills these gaps in a childlike and nonsensical way, can be ignored even by the most intelligent of people. They are sold by what it does provide, and are not willing to let this go, even in the face of good sense. Fear of hell only compounds this impotence.

It takes not just a spark of intelligence to break free, but also a little bit of bravery, along with a sprinkle of open-mindedness. It takes someone who is willing to accept that he might have been wrong, that everyone he knows might be wrong, and that everyone who has come before them could also have been caught up in the wrong circle of shit. It takes someone who is willing to start again, to look around at what life is like without religion, to internalise moral and ethical values, to let go of the loving, guiding hand of the comforting adult that is God. It takes someone who is willing to let all of this go and to accept himself as the bumbling, limited, lonely, insignificant, uncertain man that he truly is. Not every intelligent person will get to that level. But you should not look back at these clever people in bewilderment. That's just the way they're wired. They are not proof of the validity of religion. They just haven't allowed themselves to become free yet.

Hi
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #32 - August 13, 2012, 07:36 PM

^^Can someone tell me how to put a box around a quote??

Hi
- toor
- Administrator
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #33 - August 13, 2012, 07:37 PM

You missed a close bracket.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #34 - August 13, 2012, 08:17 PM

Cheers toor.

Hi
- Cato
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #35 - August 13, 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote from: musivore on August 13, 2012, 07:34 PM
There are stupid people amongst the irreligious. I am the living, breathing embodiment of that. Yezeevee is another. Similarly, not everyone intelligent breaks free from religion, and from the desire to have religion in their lives. An Abrahamic God fulfils the need for hierarchy, for purpose and meaning, for comfort against the cruelty of death, for moral guidance, and to provide order in a universe that can make little sense. That it fills these gaps in a childlike and nonsensical way, can be ignored even by the most intelligent of people. They are sold by what it does provide, and are not willing to let this go, even in the face of good sense. Fear of hell only compounds this impotence.

It takes not just a spark of intelligence to break free, but also a little bit of bravery, along with a sprinkle of open-mindedness. It takes someone who is willing to accept that he might have been wrong, that everyone he knows might be wrong, and that everyone who has come before them could also have been caught up in the wrong circle of shit. It takes someone who is willing to start again, to look around at what life is like without religion, to internalise moral and ethical values, to let go of the loving, guiding hand of the comforting adult that is God. It takes someone who is willing to let all of this go and to accept himself as the bumbling, limited, lonely, insignificant, uncertain man that he truly is. Not every intelligent person will get to that level. But you should not look back at these clever people in bewilderment. That's just the way they're wired. They are not proof of the validity of religion. They just haven't allowed themselves to become free yet.

Couldnt agree more, Mate

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

"No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
- free spirit
- AKA DA
- Pub Regular
- unorthodox freestyler
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #36 - August 13, 2012, 10:26 PM

Eloquently put musivore.

Omar Khayyam - I was taking about the IQ of the followers, which for the Abrahamic religion were in essence stupefied goatherds. Remember the Jews weren't clever either back then, 2000 years of persecution did that. Your average IQ of Arabs, even now, is not high comparatively to say the Orient. Their religions were different in many ways, then again the Orient is like a different planet.

People on this forum board are probably at the top 5 per cent stream. I mean when I went to university, onlt the top 5 per cent to university, more or less, because of the number of places available and all of youse, more or less imo would have been there. We are not the average.

Scamper 22 - can't look at ur post right now but you mention something about young or big kids, I think all/most adults are essentially big kids at heart. I think it is important to remember that.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
- free spirit
- AKA DA
- Pub Regular
- unorthodox freestyler
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #37 - August 13, 2012, 11:05 PM

There are plenty of intelligent women happy to love a man, be a housewife, support her husband, have and raise kids. They are happy not to rock the boat, go against the grain.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
- hypocrucifier
- Ending the tyranny of nonsense
- Pub Regular
- The emancipation of TRUTH from perceptions
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #38 - August 13, 2012, 11:41 PM

Quote from: musivore on August 13, 2012, 07:34 PM
There are stupid people amongst the irreligious. I am the living, breathing embodiment of that. Yezeevee is another. Similarly, not everyone intelligent breaks free from religion, and from the desire to have religion in their lives. An Abrahamic God fulfils the need for hierarchy, for purpose and meaning, for comfort against the cruelty of death, for moral guidance, and to provide order in a universe that can make little sense. That it fills these gaps in a childlike and nonsensical way, can be ignored even by the most intelligent of people. They are sold by what it does provide, and are not willing to let this go, even in the face of good sense. Fear of hell only compounds this impotence.

It takes not just a spark of intelligence to break free, but also a little bit of bravery, along with a sprinkle of open-mindedness. It takes someone who is willing to accept that he might have been wrong, that everyone he knows might be wrong, and that everyone who has come before them could also have been caught up in the wrong circle of shit. It takes someone who is willing to start again, to look around at what life is like without religion, to internalise moral and ethical values, to let go of the loving, guiding hand of the comforting adult that is God. It takes someone who is willing to let all of this go and to accept himself as the bumbling, limited, lonely, insignificant, uncertain man that he truly is. Not every intelligent person will get to that level. But you should not look back at these clever people in bewilderment. That's just the way they're wired. They are not proof of the validity of religion. They just haven't allowed themselves to become free yet.

WOW! and you call yourself stupid ! Is this your way of being modest ?

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- TheDashingRabbit
- Politics and Literature Junkie
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #39 - August 14, 2012, 12:02 AM

Quote from: musivore on August 13, 2012, 07:34 PM
There are stupid people amongst the irreligious. I am the living, breathing embodiment of that. Yezeevee is another. Similarly, not everyone intelligent breaks free from religion, and from the desire to have religion in their lives. An Abrahamic God fulfils the need for hierarchy, for purpose and meaning, for comfort against the cruelty of death, for moral guidance, and to provide order in a universe that can make little sense. That it fills these gaps in a childlike and nonsensical way, can be ignored even by the most intelligent of people. They are sold by what it does provide, and are not willing to let this go, even in the face of good sense. Fear of hell only compounds this impotence.

It takes not just a spark of intelligence to break free, but also a little bit of bravery, along with a sprinkle of open-mindedness. It takes someone who is willing to accept that he might have been wrong, that everyone he knows might be wrong, and that everyone who has come before them could also have been caught up in the wrong circle of shit. It takes someone who is willing to start again, to look around at what life is like without religion, to internalise moral and ethical values, to let go of the loving, guiding hand of the comforting adult that is God. It takes someone who is willing to let all of this go and to accept himself as the bumbling, limited, lonely, insignificant, uncertain man that he truly is. Not every intelligent person will get to that level. But you should not look back at these clever people in bewilderment. That's just the way they're wired. They are not proof of the validity of religion. They just haven't allowed themselves to become free yet.

Exactly!! bravo

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- serpentofeden
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #40 - August 14, 2012, 03:03 PM

what scamper was talkin bout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm971ltF44A
- strangestdude
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #41 - August 14, 2012, 09:00 PM

Great post musivore. I agree.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- z10
- Pub Regular
- Imago Dei
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #42 - August 15, 2012, 06:09 AM

This question only has meaning if there are any real consequences to not believing the right thing, which is ridiculous because nobody chooses what they believe in, they either do or they don't. Belief can't be rationalised.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- Xiis
- Welp I went to get a cold pop
- Ex-Muslim
- Ex Muslim Somali
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #43 - August 15, 2012, 08:16 AM

If you have to ask then maybe you havent hit rock bottom! Why would I worry about an evil God that allows child molestation? Why would I worry about a guy who steals greek works from 500 years ago and then claims an angel gave it to him in a cave? Why would I worry about if some great flood happened but some guy managed to get every damn creature in pairs on a boat? Why would I worry about a atalking snake that was let loose by a so called all knowning god on some 1 day olds? Why would I believe or worry about a god that punishes some guy named job just to make a point to his arch nemesis?

Are u for real? No i am not worried!

Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
- sturmgewehr
- Illyro-Thracian
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #44 - August 15, 2012, 01:17 PM

Yes I always question the decisions I make, I always think WHAT if and that is why I can't accept Islam as the ultimate truth anymore, if I accepted Islam as the Ultimate truth then I that would just mean I shouldn't question the truthfulness of Islam and I can't do that, I am here where I am now because I have been questioning things all the time and I keep doing that no matter what.
- strangestdude
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #45 - August 17, 2012, 10:05 AM

Quote
I am here where I am now because I have been questioning things all the time and I keep doing that no matter what.

Bingo.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- free spirit
- AKA DA
- Pub Regular
- unorthodox freestyler
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #46 - August 18, 2012, 12:43 AM

Maybe some of these intelligent religious people don't need to think too deeply. Perhaps they have an upbringing which to them makes sense. It works for them. Their parents have raised them in an environment where there has been no drama revolving round Islam. You get intelligent yes men.

These kids are a muslim parents wet dream.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #47 - August 18, 2012, 01:28 AM

ding ding ding
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #48 - August 18, 2012, 02:20 AM

and I am one of those pseudo intelligent yes men,
+++++++
Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who cares
They
They betray
I'm your only true friend now
They
They'll betray
I'm forever there

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true
Sad but true

You
You're my mask
You're my cover, my shelter
You
You're my mask
You're the one who's blamed
Do
Do my work
Do my dirty work, scapegoat
Do
Do my deeds
For you're the one who's shamed

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true
Sad but true

I'm your dream
I'm your eyes
I'm your pain
I'm your dream
I'm your eyes
I'm your pain
You know it's sad but true

Hate
I'm your hate
I'm your hate when you want love
Pay
Pay the price
Pay for nothing's fair

Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who took you there
Hey
I'm your life
And I no longer care

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your truth, telling lies
I'm your reason alibis
I'm inside, open your eyes
I'm you

Sad but true
++++++++++

Sad But True,
Metallica
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #49 - August 18, 2012, 03:07 AM

(insert people that you deemed intelligent)
-apostate!
-keell ! keell ! , slay emmm!
-kaffirooooon, hellllll!
-don't draw mo, don't say anything bad about minimo, bigall, arslam or I'll keeeeell uuu!
-Islam is perfect, the blame is on teh people, I own uuuu big time
-q'ran is science, period!

(insert smartass arslam goons here)
-*thumbs up* cool story bro, keell!!

(insert smart religious politician)
-hmm noice! we can use this to sway people for our cause! whatever it is ..

(insert smart lawmaker here)
-we have syaria, please be cool people, don't worry, we still can keell em .. peacefully.

(me)
-__-
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #50 - August 18, 2012, 03:22 PM

k.
- Rendezvous
- Ex-Muslim
- Seeking Perfection.
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #51 - August 18, 2012, 06:20 PM

Quote from: paranoid on August 18, 2012, 03:07 AM
-we have syaria, please be cool people, don't worry, we still can keell em .. peacefully.

(me)
-__-

I did not understand a word of that, but uh, have a hug? Oh and nice poem

"The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline toward the religion of solitude."

"i used to steal my sisters barbies so i could take their clothes off and perv on them" - prince spinoza
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #52 - August 19, 2012, 04:49 AM

k..
'Sharia law'
k.
- mufa9a
- Ex-Muslim
- Bookworm is the new sexy
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #53 - September 18, 2012, 05:21 PM

When the thought crossed my mind, I'd usually think, it's been a while since I looked into Religion.

"Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
- Rubik
- Member
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #54 - September 18, 2012, 05:52 PM

Yes.I wonder if I'm wrong constantly .This worry has taken way too much out of my life.However it's much less now. .and hopefully all this anxiety will go away.It's just my brain's programmed fear circuitry taking it's time to adjust and not due to any rational proof that Islam has of it's veracity.Its been a long time since I thought Islam had those.
- Homer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #55 - December 14, 2012, 07:05 AM

Quote from: monstart on August 11, 2012, 03:08 PM
often when i see educated people following islam it crosses my mind that if these people believe in islam then maybe there is somthing i have failed to see or understand.

do you ever wonder if islam is the truth and your making a mistake?

Not really...because I'm an educated person too.
I mean, not for nothing, but there are plenty of educated people who believe stupid things.
Francis Collins is a born again christian because he saw a waterfall, and he lead the Human Genome Project. Aristotle claimed that women have fewer teeth than men, even though they dont, and this could have been easily checked. Newton invented calculus and defined our understanding of physics, and he was a lunatic who was obsessed with the book of revelations.
You dont have to be an retard to be religious and you dont have to be a genius to be an atheist (I know tons of dumb ass atheists).

Or to condense this article (http://www.morganlevymd.com/essays/Whydosmart.htm):
Quote
You would think that only dumb people would believe dumb things but that is not true. In fact, it is frequently the case that individuals who are more intelligent believe the dumbest things of all. They are smarter so they can figure out more intricate and complex dumb things to believe.

People compartmentalize their intellect, and like to avoid avoid cognitive dissonance. When most people decide they believe something they stick to it, and humans are content to believe dumb things because it makes them happy. We are also a small brained impotent little species that survive briefly in fragile bodies and we fear death, isolation, and rejection from community.
In that context...it might actually be smart for you to believe in dumb things.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
- TheAnti_Theist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #56 - December 14, 2012, 07:56 AM

It's a very interesting observation that highly intelligent and educated people still believe in Islam. It's a fallacy only if you argue that, there has to be some truth to Islam IF highly educated people still believe in Islam. However, It's not a fallacy if you ask yourself Why ? One can be curious about this. A perfectly rational and logical scientist might go to masjid every Friday and be a devout Muslim. This has a lot to do with psychology . Human beings are not rational. Our minds don't always work logically. Sometimes we accidentally take the route to work, when we really only wanted to go to the grocery store. Imagine this, you were to pick a box out of 3 closed boxes. Inside one of those boxes, there is a price worth $1 million dollars. Imagine you chose any one of those boxes. There are two boxes left. Now, out of the remaining two boxes, One box will be eliminated. (The one that doesn't have the price). You are left with Your earlier choice, and just One more box. Now, you are given a choice to stick with what you chose before, or you can switch the boxes. What would you do ? Stick or Switch ? Research shows most people stick with the earlier choice because they believed it wouldn't make a difference. But mathematically, you will end up with a higher probability of winning, if you switch. Yet, most of us won't switch. This is how the human mind works.

Most believers, especially Muslims are like rats in a scientific experiment. The rat was given an electric shock every time it touched the exit button. Soon, the rat learns not to touch the button. So are most believers. They learn not to doubt the divine. In an experiment, flies were put inside a container and sealed. Except for a tiny hole that's not large enough to escape. The flies keep bumping into the containers cap. After few days, the experimenter removed the cap. Guess what happened ? The flies remained inside the container. Not one of them escaped, even after the cap was removed. The flies "believed" the cap was still there. This is how we work. Most of us, no matter how intelligent we are, we never question our beliefs. Intelligent people can still be believer, because they aren't willing to question their beliefs. Thus, limiting their potential. If the fly started to disbelieve, it can find it's freedom. So have we become the flies who flew away from Islam.

You can read my quick post about how the human mind and beliefs can delude us into believing the supernatural. you can easily click this link will take you to my site http://www.the-antitheist.com/54/

You can easily visit my blog at http://www.the-antitheist.com/
Follow me on twitter https://twitter.com/theAnti_Theist
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/raisoft2020
- Stardust
- Founder of Neo-Hippiism
- Ex-Muslim
- Beneath The Veil
- offline
do you ever wonder if you are wrong?
Reply #57 - December 14, 2012, 08:41 AM

*not-bad-face*

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »