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Theme Changer

 Topic: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan

 (Read 4221 times)
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  • How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     OP - September 07, 2012, 06:23 AM

    An excellent article, long but worth a read.



    How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan

    The country's blasphemy law is overwhelmingly being used to persecute religious minorities and settle personal vendettas. As the case of 14-year-old Christian Rimsha Masih gains global attention, why have politicians failed to act?

    Mohammed Hanif
    guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 5 September 2012 20.00 BST


    Fourteen years ago, around the time young Rimsha Masih, now in jail under Pakistan's blasphemy law, was born, a Roman Catholic bishop walked into a courthouse in Sahiwal, quite close to my hometown in Central Punjab. The Right Rev John Joseph was no ordinary clergyman; he was the first native bishop in Pakistan and the first ever Punjabi bishop anywhere in the world. He was also a brilliant and celebrated community organiser, the kind of man oppressed communities look up to as a role model. Joseph walked in alone, asking a junior priest to wait outside the courthouse. Inside the court, he took out a handgun and shot himself in the head. The bullet in his head was his protest against the court's decision to sentence a fellow Christian, Ayub Masih, to death for committing blasphemy. Masih had been charged with arguing with a Muslim co-worker over religious matters. The exact content of the conversation cannot be repeated here because that would be blasphemous. The bishop had campaigned long and hard to get the blasphemy law repealed without any luck. He wrote prior to his death: "I shall count myself extremely fortunate if in this mission of breaking the barriers, our Lord accepts the sacrifice of my blood for the benefit of his people."

    Joseph had been pursuing another case, in which an 11-year-old, Salamat Masih, along with his father and uncle, was accused of scribbling something blasphemous on the wall of the mosque. We don't really know what he wrote, because reproducing it, here or in court, would constitute blasphemy.

    The boy's uncle, Manzoor Masih, was shot dead during the trial. The Masih case went to the high court, where a judge, Arif Bhatti, applied common sense and released him. A year later the judge was murdered in his own chambers, and his killers claimed that the judge had committed blasphemy by freeing those accused in the blasphemy case.

    Frustrated and in a fit of rage, the bishop meditated and reached the conclusion that he should kill himself publicly to make his point.

    You could argue that Joseph should have organised candlelight vigils, gone on a hunger strike, hired better lawyers. But he had tried everything and realised that a bullet in the head in the middle of a court was his only way to draw attention to this colossal absurdity called blasphemy law.

    He was wrong. The law stayed. Many more Christians were killed.

    There are situations though, where confronted with the prospect of a 14-year-old being sentenced to death, as a celebrated community leader you can't do anything but take a gun to your head.

    And hope for the best.


    How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan

    A young girl carrying trash in a plastic bag in a slum in the capital of Pakistan is not likely to arouse much curiosity. Not unless the girl is a Christian. Not unless there is a Muslim boy who wants to inspect the contents of her bag. Then this certain young man, Hammad, takes the trash bag to the local mosque to show it to the imam, Hafiz Mohammed Khalid Chishti (also known as Maulana Jadoon), who decides that the contents of the bag are, indeed, blasphemous but wonders if they are blasphemous enough. So he inserts some pages of the Qur'an in the trash bag. What the girl was carrying was a book of alphabets, taught to children, may or may not have had a verse from the Qur'an in it. Reproducing an image of the contents of this trash bag would be blasphemous, so we are never likely to know. We discover the imam's role in sexing up the blasphemous contents two weeks later when one of the imam's deputies cracks up. By then Rimsha has been arrested, refused bail, sent to jail and a medical board constituted to ascertain her age and mental health. We are still not sure if she is 11 or 14, we don't know if she has Down's Syndrome as was originally claimed. In the initial days of the case, human-rights workers pinned their hopes on Rimsha's mental condition. As if those who demanded her arrest, those who arrested her, those who denied her bail and put her in jail were all mentally "normal". Her family has gone into hiding; another 300 Christian families have been forced to leave their homes and are struggling to find shelter in one of the Islamabad forests.

    So what can constitute blasphemy under the blasphemy law, which has killed dozens in the past decade, made thousands homeless and millions live in permanent fear about what might be found in their trashcan. It's up to the lawyers to argue over how to avoid: "Whoever by words, either spoken or written or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles …" but here are some of the everyday situations that can turn you into a blasphemer:

    1. Transporting ashes in a plastic bag to a rubbish dump, as has happened in Masih's case.

    2. Discussing conjugal rights according to Islam with fellow Muslims if you disagree with them. You might think you are with a fellow Muslim, around a water pump and relatively safe. That is what a schoolteacher in Chakwal thought. And got into an argument. He has been in jail for the past 10 months. His 14-year-old daughter told the daily newspaper Dawn last week that kids won't talk to her because her father is a blasphemer.

    3. Not minding your spellings. Last year a teacher checking exam papers called in the police after he found blasphemous material in an answer sheet. The police wouldn't reveal the exact material because that, you know, would be blasphemous. Later it transpired that it was a case of bad spelling.

    4. Writing a novel called Blasphemy. Last year there were calls to put an author on trial because she had been disrespectful to religious scholars and spiritual saints. Last I heard she was fine but not writing any more novels with any other name.

    5. Writing a children's poem with a lion as its central character. Pakistan's most famous social activist, Akhtar Hameed Khan, who spent his life helping people in Asia's largest slum, tried his hand at a poem like that and spent his last years in courts facing blasphemy charges.

    6. Refusing someone a drink of water. Asia Bibi, a Christian woman, who among other blasphemous things (which can't be repeated for reasons by now obvious to the readers of this article) refused her co-workers a drink of water. The local imam accused her of blasphemy. The then governor, Salman Taseer, came out in her support, talked about changing the law, and was killed by his own police bodyguard. The policeman's picture adorns many shops and businesses in Pakistan. Taseer's name has become synonymous with "going too far". And nobody, really nobody, wants to mention Bibi's name in a discussion about blasphemy law.

    7. Throwing away a visiting card. A doctor in Hyderabad did that to a pestering pharmaceutical salesman and found himself in serious trouble. The salesman had Muhammad as part of his name.


    Blasphemy: a children's story

    An academic subject called Islamic Studies was made compulsory for all students in the early 80s. As a student you were taught a story about the prophet Muhammad's life. It was part of Muslim folklore, repeated over and over again in Friday sermons, and told to little kids as a bedtime story. When the prophet started preaching in Mecca, there was a lot of hostility towards him. People pelted him with stones, made fun of him and his new upstart God and his teachings. There was one woman in his Mecca neighbourhood who was particularly nasty to him. As he left his house every day, she would be waiting for him with a basket of garbage that she would empty over him. It happened day after day but he never rebuked the woman, nor changed his path. Then one day he walked the street and no garbage was thrown at him. He turned back and went looking for his tormentor and discovered that the woman was ill and bedridden. He inquired about her health and told her that since she hadn't come out to insult him like she did every day, he was worried about her. The woman, impressed by his generosity, converted to Islam.

    There is another story that kids are taught these days. This story has almost become the new folklore, repeated endlessly on social networking sites and narrated in graphic detail by the supporters of the blasphemy law. According to this story when prophet Muhammad conquered Mecca he announced a general amnesty except for those who had committed blasphemy against his person. He ordered them to be beheaded. One blasphemer was killed even when he tried to take shelter in the Khana Qaba in Mecca, the most sacred place for Muslims, where it is strictly forbidden to kill anyone.

    A common Muslim might be puzzled over how both these stories could be true? But before puzzlement starts to border on blasphemy, one must seek the guidance of Pakistani Islamic scholars, who tell us that Islam is the most humane of religions, that there is nothing wrong with the blasphemy law, that it is the implementation which is problematic. Before the current law came into existence, in 60 years there were six reported cases of blasphemy. Since the current law was constituted there have been more than four thousand. But the law has such power that even pleading the statistics is considered blasphemous. When Governor Taseer challenged it, they killed him, and then many of the same Islamic scholars refused to say his funeral prayers.


    The fear of Allah v the fear of mullah

    Not too long ago, the role of the clergy in a neighbourhood was confined to birth and deaths, funeral and special religious occasions. You went to the mosque to offer your prayers, you prayed for better crops, for the rains to start or stop; travellers could expect to find shelter for the night. A mosque is no more just that. Equipped with a powerful public-address system and controlled by sectarian religious groups, it's become a little battle headquarter for the neighbourhood. The continuous Shia massacres across Pakistan are not hatched in some far-off land, by enemies of Pakistan or enemies of Islam as Pakistan's maulanas pretend; they are preached, planned and executed from local mosques.

    People listen to religious scholars.

    "If she is innocent, she should be released," thundered a dozen maulanas on TV screens after Rimsha was arrested. "And if she is guilty, the law must take its course." They completely ignored the fact that an illiterate child is not likely to even know what constitutes blasphemy. And the law they want to be implemented has led to a situation that even when the accused is found innocent, they are condemned for life.

    All you need to do to condemn someone for life is to switch on a mosque loudspeaker and make the allegation. Before Chishti was caught in his own trap in the Rimsha case, no accuser had ever been arrested or tried. The laws against hate speech are weak, and almost never implemented. And how can it be considered hate speech when all they are doing is expressing their faith that might include demanding death for all Shias and Ahmedis, and an occasional Christian who may or may not have crossed the line.

    There are enough sectarian organisations in Pakistan to wage perpetual war. There are enough factions within these organisations that will shoot down every argument, every appeal to rationality. You can't reason with Allah, so you mustn't reason with a mullah, because that too might be blasphemous.

    A few days before it was found that Chishti had planted evidence against Rimsha, he was interviewed on TV. He was asked if he had been campaigning to expel Christians from his neighbourhood. He seemed puzzled for a moment, then rebuked: "This is a Muslim country, Allah has given it to us. If these Christians make noise at the time of our prayers, then they should be asked to leave." I am certain that even when Chishti was stuffing pages from the Qur'an in the poor girl's trash bag, he believed he was doing Allah's work.


    The Christian work

    There is a well-off Christian businessman in Karachi who fusses over the trash basket in his office, handles his work file carefully, because, you never know, a stray scrap of paper can ruin you, your family, your business.

    Christians make up less than 2% of Pakistanis, the majority of them very poor. Many of them are converts from low caste Hindus, who embraced Christianity in the hope of better status, but most end up sweeping the streets and cleaning clogged up gutters. Because of rampant unemployment the sanitary profession is not exclusive to Christians any more – there are thousands of Muslims, mostly migrants from rural areas, who sweep the streets and haul the trash but because of old prejudices, it's still considered a profession beneath Muslims. The Christian businessman in Karachi was hiring a cleaning person for his office and inquired about his background. The candidate told him: my family comes from farming but because of bad times we are forced to do this Christian work.


    My father, the blasphemer

    My father was as devout and zealous a Muslim as I have ever seen. Never missed a prayer, built a huge mosque in his village and always preferred the stricter, literalist version of religion. He also had a mysterious stomach ailment and the only cure was a verse from the Qur'an recited by the only Christian gentleman in the neighbourhood. This accidental healer was also the neighbourhood sweeper. When I think of these two old men huddled in a room, reciting verses from the Qur'an to cure a minor ailment, I wonder if they were committing blasphemy?


    Rimsha's future

    For the first time since the Right Rev John Joseph shot himself, there is some public support for a blasphemy victim. Some religious scholars have come out in Rimsha's support, an odd politician or two have talked about this case becoming a tipping point in the blasphemy debate. But let's not have any illusions: no political party has the courage to rewrite a single word in the law let alone repeal it. The 11-year-old Salamat Masih who Joseph had fought for was sentenced to death. A higher court later overturned the decision but it was obvious the boy would never be safe in the country. A Christian charity helped him find asylum in Europe.

    Rimsha (if found not guilty) has been offered sanctuary by one of the country's largest seminaries, Jamia Banuria, in Karachi. Banuria is also a staunch supporter of the blasphemy law. Rimsha probably doesn't know that she might end up spending the rest of her life in a Muslim seminary or be left at the mercy of a Christian charity.

    In Joseph's hometown in Faisalabad, in a Muslim seminary called Jamia Rehmania, they made a monument to his sacrifice. Jamia Rehmania also supports the blasphemy law. The memorial, called Bishop John Joseph Memorial Hall is the only monument in Pakistan dedicated to a blasphemer.



    source

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #1 - September 07, 2012, 12:36 PM

    He's a good writer


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #2 - September 07, 2012, 01:04 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALbLXcQY0S0

    please watch whole video..




    Person: Rev.   John Joseph, 66, Catholic bishop of Faisalabad

    Case: death sentence recently given to Ayub Masih for Blasphemy

    Time:   9;00 PM, on May 6, 1998...

    Place: premises of Session Courts of Sahiwal city in Punjab province of Pakistan.

    Die for the Cause:  Rev.   John Joseph, Shoots himeself in the neck at the court house.

    And Blasphemy Laws are still taking toll in land of pure in 2012


    Quote
    Bishop John Joseph travelled to the city of Sahiwal in the afternoon of 6 May from his residence in Faisalabad. He went to address a prayer meeting for the Christian parishioners there specially organised for the victims of blasphemy cases. Since the early 1990s when Section 295-C of the Pakistani Penal Code was amended, making the death sentence mandatory for the offence of blaspheming Islam, dozens of non-Muslims have fallen victims to the often-abused blasphemy laws. And the bishop was deeply shocked by Ayub's verdict.

    At dinner time on 6 May, Bishop John Joseph had little appetite as according to the parish priest, Fr. Yaqoob Farooq, O.P.. After others had had their meals, the bishop asked Fr. Yaqoob to accompany him to the spot of the court-house where Ayub Masih was shot at exactly six months ago. On reaching close to the vicinity of the sessions court, the bishop asked Fr. Yaqoob to stay back and went to the spot himself. Moments after, Fr. Yaqoob heard a gun shot. He then rushed to the spot and found the bishop had shot himself in the neck. According to Fr. Yaqoob, Bishop John Joseph was instantly dead.





    Quote
    Ayub Masih was arrested in 1996 for allegedly violating Pakistan’s blasphemy laws. On August 15, 2002, after a sustained campaign by Freedom Now, the Supreme Court of Pakistan reversed Mr. Masih’s conviction, acquitted him of all charges, and released him from death row.

    Mr. Masih, a Pakistani Christian then age 26, was arrested after allegedly telling a Muslim neighbor to read Salman Rushdie’s The Satantic Verses and that Christianity was “correct.” Mr. Masih denied making the statements that formed the basis for his conviction. Following Mr. Masih’s arrest, the neighbor was allocated Mr. Masih’s land and the entire Christian population of the village was evacuated. The complainant later shot and injured Mr. Masih in the trial court, but was never prosecuted by Pakistani authorities and continued as the main witness against Mr. Masih.

    During Mr. Masih’s trial, religious extremists threatened to kill Mr. Masih, his attorneys, and the judge if Mr. Masih was not convicted. A Pakistani trial court judge had recently been murdered after acquitting two men of blasphemy. Mr. Masih received a death sentence by hanging.

    Mr. Masih was incarcerated in Multan, Pakistan and suffered attacks from other prisoners, denial of medical care for severe skin allergies and hemorrhoids, and solitary confinement in an 8 x 8 x 8-foot cell .  Attempts were made on Masih’s life at least twice during his six years of incarceration, according to the groups that have followed his legal battle. In November 1997, Masih was shot at by the complainant in his case, Sharif Muhammad Akram, outside the court where he was convicted in the Punjab province town of Sahiwal, said Christian Solidarity Worldwide.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #3 - September 07, 2012, 03:18 PM

    So where exactly are these mullahs getting the idea that the penalty for blasphemy is death? Muslim apologists say that there is no death penalty for blasphemy in the Quran and Hadith. I'm trying to find the exact sources for this punishment and so far I have the incident of the poet that was put to death early in Islamic history and I've been reading that blasphemy against the prophet is punishable by death because he himself isn't alive to forgive the person who is talking negatively about him.

    Can anyone here help me with the sources people are using to justify these punishments for blasphemy? I could spend the time looking for it myself but I'm being a bit lazy plus it will help others to see the sources in here.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #4 - September 07, 2012, 03:23 PM

    I think there is a Hadith, maybe in Bukhari, that says "whoever changes his religion, kill him". I think if you google that it will come up.
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #5 - September 07, 2012, 03:53 PM

    Here you go:

    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/89/5
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #6 - September 07, 2012, 04:43 PM

    TonyT That's for apostasy though. That would relate to people like us. What would be more specific to a say a Christian like the one in the article who is accused of blasphemy?

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #7 - September 07, 2012, 05:19 PM

    Sorry, in my haste I totally misread the entire thread.   wacko

    I do not know of any hadith, but I suppose they could use the example of Muhammad from the Sirat Rasul Allah where he had a number of people executed or assasinated for poking fun at him. For example. after the conquest of Mecca Muhammad ordered the execution of 2 singing girls that use to sing satirical songs about him.

    Quote
    Narrated Sa'id ibn Yarbu' al-Makhzumi: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: on the day of the conquest of Mecca: There are four persons whom I shall not give protection in the sacred and non-sacred territory. He then named them. There were two singing girls of al-Maqis; one of them was killed and the other escaped and embraced Islam.  

    Abu-Dawud (14.2678) http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=14&translator=3&start=28&number=2678

    But again that is nothing conclusive, just because Mo had a few people killed for blasphemy, that does not neccesarily follow that all blasphemers must be killed.
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #8 - September 08, 2012, 06:51 PM

    So where exactly are these mullahs getting the idea that the penalty for blasphemy is death? Muslim apologists say that there is no death penalty for blasphemy in the Quran and Hadith. I'm trying to find the exact sources for this punishment and so far I have the incident of the poet that was put to death early in Islamic history and I've been reading that blasphemy against the prophet is punishable by death because he himself isn't alive to forgive the person who is talking negatively about him.

    Can anyone here help me with the sources people are using to justify these punishments for blasphemy? I could spend the time looking for it myself but I'm being a bit lazy plus it will help others to see the sources in here.


    For quick reference here are the verses
    33:57 Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.
    33:61 Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely.

    Note: Whenever Quran uses the statement "cursed in this world","disgrace in this world","punishment in this world"....it simply means "death penalty" or "sever punishment by muslims"


    For detailed analysis , follow this link
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Blasphemy

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #9 - September 08, 2012, 07:10 PM

    For quick reference here are the verses
    33:57 Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.
    33:61 Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely.

    Note: Whenever Quran uses the statement "cursed in this world","disgrace in this world","punishment in this world"....it simply means "death penalty" or "sever punishment by muslims"


    For detailed analysis , follow this link
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Blasphemy

    yap . but it depends where you live .. those verses are for places where rules of the land are based on Islam..  But if you live in Nevada the rules are are different..
    Quote
    There is nothing in the Quran or the authentic teachings of Prophet Muhammad justifying the killing of people for opposing, criticizing, humiliating or showing irreverence toward holy personages, religious artifacts, customs and beliefs of Islam.

    and that is what Dr. Aslam Abdullah   the  editor in chief of the weekly Muslim Observer and director of the Islamic Society of Nevada says...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #10 - September 08, 2012, 07:16 PM

    yap . but it depends where you live .. those verses are for places where rules of the land are based on Islam..  But if you live in Nevada the rules are are different..


    By that criteria, these people in Pakistan are perfectly within their rights to execute anyone, as Pakistan is a country whose laws are (supposedly) based on Islam.

    This whole thing is such BS. I puke a little every time some muslim or some white-liberal-guilt-ridden islamic apologist tries to say that these barbaric laws "only apply" in islamic states. I just yell at them, often inappropriately loudly, I AM FROM AN ISLAMIC STATE YOU FUCKING LOON. YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY IF I HAD BEEN EXECUTED IN THE COUNTRY WHERE I WAS BORN??

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #11 - September 08, 2012, 07:19 PM


    The other thing is that they set the tempo and atmosphere outside those states and societies. Muslims live with a severity of taboo within the diaspora community because the reality of Pakistani ethics and law and societal value is carried over to the UK and with modern communications and migration and back and forth, it extends to other societies too. So it does affect British ex Muslims as a taboo. The laws are there, but they are only once removed from here.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #12 - September 08, 2012, 07:25 PM

    And talk about racism. How is it not racist to think that "those people over there" are just naturally destined to be savages so we must not even think about holding an opinion other than somehow they are lesser, dumber, more barbaric beings? That it's their culture to be so barbaric, so we need to just pretend they have nothing in common with "us" and we could never have been very much like them. They have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to give them. Liberal cultural relativism is the more condescending type of racism.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #13 - September 08, 2012, 07:38 PM

    You're not wrong, allat.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #14 - September 21, 2012, 09:11 PM

    So where exactly are these mullahs getting the idea that the penalty for blasphemy is death? Muslim apologists say that there is no death penalty for blasphemy in the Quran and Hadith. I'm trying to find the exact sources for this punishment and so far I have the incident of the poet that was put to death early in Islamic history and I've been reading that blasphemy against the prophet is punishable by death because he himself isn't alive to forgive the person who is talking negatively about him.

    Can anyone here help me with the sources people are using to justify these punishments for blasphemy? I could spend the time looking for it myself but I'm being a bit lazy plus it will help others to see the sources in here.


    Here's one incident from hadith:

    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/238
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #15 - September 21, 2012, 09:51 PM

    So where exactly are these mullahs getting the idea that the penalty for blasphemy is death? Muslim apologists say that there is no death penalty for blasphemy in the Quran and Hadith. I'm trying to find the exact sources for this punishment and so far I have the incident of the poet that was put to death early in Islamic history and I've been reading that blasphemy against the prophet is punishable by death because he himself isn't alive to forgive the person who is talking negatively about him.

    Can anyone here help me with the sources people are using to justify these punishments for blasphemy? I could spend the time looking for it myself but I'm being a bit lazy plus it will help others to see the sources in here.


    Khalifa Abu Bakr killed apostates you know. Many tribes left Islam after Mohammed's death. Muslims aren't told to follow Mohammed and the quran only but also what the caliphs did and said. Abu Bakr's 'Ridda Wars' (apostasy wars) are a big example!
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #16 - September 21, 2012, 09:54 PM

    Another thing, I'm sure you know the story of the one who wrote the Quran for Mohammed. He left Islam when Mohammed accepted some editing to the Quran. Mohammed didn't kill him, but he WANTED to!
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #17 - September 21, 2012, 09:56 PM

    I think Islam is the only religion that fought a war to prevent its own followers from leaving it (Ridda wars)

    When you think of it, that is really funny.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #18 - September 21, 2012, 10:01 PM

    Khalifa Abu Bakr killed apostates you know. Many tribes left Islam after Mohammed's death. Muslims aren't told to follow Mohammed and the quran only but also what the caliphs did and said. Abu Bakr's 'Ridda Wars' (apostasy wars) are a big example!


    "Oh but that was considered treason so it was justified" Tongue

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #19 - September 21, 2012, 10:06 PM

    Mohammed was a bad guy! He didn't do anything good for humanity! Those Pakistanis don't know that they can be better than him!!!

    Mo finmad
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #20 - September 21, 2012, 11:27 PM

    This whole thing is such BS. I puke a little every time some muslim or some white-liberal-guilt-ridden islamic apologist tries to say that these barbaric laws "only apply" in islamic states. I just yell at them, often inappropriately loudly, I AM FROM AN ISLAMIC STATE YOU FUCKING LOON. YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY IF I HAD BEEN EXECUTED IN THE COUNTRY WHERE I WAS BORN??


    clap So obsessed with the nutjobs on the right that they are oblivious of their own excesses that violate common sense.

    And talk about racism. How is it not racist to think that "those people over there" are just naturally destined to be savages so we must not even think about holding an opinion other than somehow they are lesser, dumber, more barbaric beings? That it's their culture to be so barbaric, so we need to just pretend they have nothing in common with "us" and we could never have been very much like them. They have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to give them. Liberal cultural relativism is the more condescending type of racism.


    Indeed!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #21 - September 22, 2012, 12:04 AM


    As an interesting side note:  Canada has a blasphemy law for Christianity in place too. But it's so ancient that even the politicians haven't heard about it.

    But it's void anyways so it can't be used legitimetly in court.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemous_libel

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #22 - September 22, 2012, 07:40 PM

    Khalifa Abu Bakr killed apostates you know. Many tribes left Islam after Mohammed's death. Muslims aren't told to follow Mohammed and the quran only but also what the caliphs did and said. Abu Bakr's 'Ridda Wars' (apostasy wars) are a big example!


    You are so smart Yume. You know a lot about all the contradictions and inconsistencies in Islam, did you learn about them from reading in Arabic or English? If you got most of this information from reading in Arabic then why do so few other people in the Arab world notice all the inconsistencies?
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #23 - September 22, 2012, 08:28 PM

      If you got most of this information from reading in Arabic then why do so few other people in the Arab world notice all the inconsistencies?


    That's why they behave like cats on a hot tin roof whenever someone criticizes Islam.There are too many skeletons in the cupboard to hide.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
     Reply #24 - September 22, 2012, 09:02 PM

    My dad talked about this incident  to the family a few days ago. He heard via news channel that the mullah stuffed the ripped pages into the bag to blame the girl.

    My dad said that the mullah should be jailed for lying but the girl should still be punished because she probably ripped a few of the pages if not all. In my mind I was thinking SHE'S JUST A CHILD FOR FUCK'S SAKE. 

    It honestly took all my energy to contain my rage and walk out of the room instead of punching my dad right in his bigoted face.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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