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Theme Changer

 Topic: Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?

 (Read 2532 times)
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  • Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?
     OP - September 10, 2012, 03:44 PM

    Quote

    <snip>
     Opposition to the Death Penalty, War and Discrimination

    So what do these increasing numbers of non-believers believe in, if not God? Sociologist Phil Zuckerman, who hopes to start a secular studies major at California's Pitzer College, says that secularists tend to be more ethical than religious people. On average, they are more commonly opposed to the death penalty, war and discrimination. And they also have fewer objections to foreigners, homosexuals, oral sex and hashish.

    The most surprising insight revealed by the new wave of secular research so far is that atheists know more about the God they don't believe in than the believers themselves. This is the conclusion suggested by a 2010 Pew Research Center survey of US citizens. Even when the higher education levels of the unreligious were factored out, they proved to be better informed in matters of faith, followed by Jewish and Mormon believers.


    But their knowledge doesn't seem to do them much good, since secularists rank among the least-liked groups of people in the US, falling behind even Muslims and homosexuals. In the states of South Carolina and Arkansas, those who deny the existence of a supreme being are not even permitted to hold public office.

    The secularists' problem is that, unlike the religious believers, they do not have a strong organization backing them. There is no such thing as a "typical" non-believer and every society has its own version of secularism. <snip>


    Full article

    Not really surprising since leaving a religion or not following a set script of laid out rules forces a person to think about things themselves.

    IIRC wasn't an article posted here not long ago about how religious people are more charitable than non religious people?

    Interesting to compare the 2 results really, is charity for the sake of a law the same as charity given by a non believer who had to think about it without being ordered to do it?

    Interesting article.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?
     Reply #1 - September 10, 2012, 09:46 PM

    I read the article... what factor does he determine are 'ethical'

    Things like telling the truth, not stealing... come to mind.

    I could be reading it wrong, but basing ethical on "opposed to the death penalty, war and discrimination" is rather dishonest if you ask me.
    Is war more ethical than sanctions or stagnation or letting people live under a dictator? I don't know...
    Death Penalty - Is just to kill a murderer? I don't know...
    Discrimination - What does this even mean? Are we talking political policies regarding affirmative action or forced service statues, or restrictions on free speech.  I don't know...

    but I certainly would base my idea of ethical on this questions.

    If I'm reading his idea of ethical correctly, this guy has basically defined his own version of ethical to be those agreeing with his political views and then makes the bold claim that 'his people' are more moral.  Seems like this dolt is on the verge of creating another delusional religion.






  • Re: Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?
     Reply #2 - September 11, 2012, 12:45 AM

    ^Quite an OTT, dont you think?

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?
     Reply #3 - September 11, 2012, 11:52 AM

    I don't think it's a question of who is ethical or not, but rather what is ethical. You must understand religious folks find non-religious folks unethical because of their loose beliefs.

    Quote
    On average, they are more commonly opposed to the death penalty, war and discrimination. And they also have fewer objections to foreigners, homosexuals, oral sex and hashish.




    Foreigners-
    Non-religious: Welcoming, and intrigued
    Religious: View them as a threat to their beliefs and numbers. Religious people are obsessed with outnumbering any other type of belief or lifestyle. Therefore in many of the holy texts, mixing of cultures and religious are seen as unethical. This is as a way of preservation.

    Homosexuals
    Non-religious: Don't really care, accepts any kind of genuine love, so long as a family is provides a nurturing loving environment.
    Religious: In the old texts, homosexuality was seen as immoral because it was a waste of seed in the times when the human population was low, birth mortality was higher, and many people were needed to develop the land and replace those lost in the constant wars. All these things are irrelevant now, but religious folks just see it written in their holy books and just agree with it. They would support an abusive family so long as it was a man and a woman, over a gay family, and make other excuses why the straight family is abusive. Point being, Homosexuality is considered unethical under little ground other than, God said so.

    Death Penalty
    Non-religious: Tap into natural human empathy and compassion with someone. Even if someone has committed a horrible crime (which is usually murder), non-religious take the time to use science to figure out what would drive someone to kill, and use that information to catch potential criminals in the future, or help them over-come the desire to do something crazy. Non-religious folk don't believe in shifting the blame to jinns or demons, just an individual with mental issues that should be evaluated and studied.

    Religious: Three reasons
    1. If God said a woman must be stoned or beaten, who are we to question? Some of them know deep in their hearts it is wrong but do not dare question it.

    2. Also I've noticed religious like the idea of revenge for wrong-doing. The idea of hellfire and suffering for those who were disobedient or did wrong is a sick fantasy of the more fundamental types, and carried over into the mortal world. We were taught, God inflicts pain and punishment if you do not listen or do immoral acts, so religious folks are quick to think that way when it comes to inflicting pain and punishment is ok because God does it.

    3. Religious folks see only murder as the most heinous crime that can be committed by another human. Whereas Religions see other acts as equivalent to murder and deserver harsh punishment, such as we all know: apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, are put on the same level as murder, though none of them involves physical pain. Yet, ask yourself why there is little punishment or laws written for, abuse, torture, rape, slavery all of which involved some kind of physical harm to another human being?
     

    Etc. Etc.
    In the end it's just what people believe is sinful or not, and we the non-religious folk tolerate and don't care about what we believe are petty things.



    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Going Godless: Does Secularism Make People More Ethical?
     Reply #4 - September 11, 2012, 12:32 PM

    If I'm reading his idea of ethical correctly, this guy has basically defined his own version of ethical to be those agreeing with his political views and then makes the bold claim that 'his people' are more moral.  Seems like this dolt is on the verge of creating another delusional religion.

    Did you read the full article?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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