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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Catholic Church, again..............

 (Read 2044 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Catholic Church, again..............
     OP - November 09, 2012, 08:50 AM

    Talk about organised crime. These clowns have had centuries of practice.

    The latest here is that a senior cop, who has been involved in investigating sex abuse by clergy, went on one of our most respected current affairs programs. He publicly stated that the Catholic Church was not only obstructing police investigations, but was actively involved in destroying evidence. This put the wind up the state government (they were previously trying to pretend there wasn't a problem) with the result that there will now be a (limited) inquiry.

    Detective challenges O'Farrell over Catholic abuse claims

    Quote
    A senior serving police officer has challenged New South Wales Premier Barry O'Farrell to set up a Royal Commission into sex abuse in the Catholic Church, alleging the Church hierarchy covers up for paedophile priests, silences investigations, and destroys crucial evidence to avoid prosecutions.

    Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox has spent more than 30 years as an investigator and has been at the centre of major police operations in the Newcastle-Hunter region of New South Wales.

    He has written a letter to Mr O'Farrell, published in the Newcastle Herald, calling for a Royal Commission into child sex abuse within the Catholic Church.

    Mirroring police evidence given to the Victorian inquiry into the Catholic Church launched this year, he says in his letter: "Many police are frustrated by this sinister behaviour which will continue until someone stops it."

    "I can testify from my own experience that the church covers up, silences victims, hinders police investigations, alerts offenders, destroys evidence and moves priests to protect the good name of the church. None of that stops at the Victorian border."

    Abuse statistics for the Newcastle-Maitland diocese paint an ugly picture:

            400 known victims of child sexual abuse by clergy
            11 clergy charged and convicted since 1995
            6 Catholic teachers convicted since 1995
            3 priests currently on trial
            First priest charged this year with concealing the crimes of another
            12 priests involved in substantial compensation claims
            Highest known compensation payout to a victim - $3 million

    Not all clergy are fully cooperating with police, however the Premier has repeatedly said police have the investigation under control.

    But Chief Inspector Fox believes police prosecutions on their own cannot deal with the Catholic Church's structures and systems for reporting abuse.

    "In many cases that I came across, one priest who had previously faced paedophile charges was donating parish money to the legal support of another priest to defend himself from those charges," he told Lateline.

    "I had other priests that hadn't been charged with anything removing evidence and destroying it before we were able to secure it, and we just went around in circles.

    "The greatest frustration is that there is so much power and organisation behind the scenes that police don't have the powers to be able to go in and seize documents and have them [the church] disclose things to us."

    Chief Inspector Fox says he has "definite information" of alleged cover-ups by a number of diocese bishops.

    "It potentially goes even higher than that," he said.

    <snip>

    The NSW Department of Public Prosecutions is now looking at whether McAlinden's crimes were covered up by three senior members of the clergy, including the general secretary of the Australian Catholic Bishops conference, Brian Lucas, the Archbishop of Adelaide, Philip Wilson and former bishop of Newcastle, Michael Malone.

    Chief Inspector Fox was in the middle of investigating this matter in 2010 when he was directed to hand over all his evidence to other officers, including a statement from a critical witness.

    "When I was directed to hand that statement over I described her statement as ... explosive. And I still describe that statement as explosive," he said.

    "What is disclosed in that is monumental."


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #1 - November 10, 2012, 02:20 AM

    They do that everywhere until the secular authorities force them to behave.  It makes you wonder what they're getting up to in countries where the secular authorities are weak or non existent. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #2 - November 11, 2012, 08:37 PM

    Looks like their backs are against the wall now. This thing is starting to snowball.

    Investigate church abuse, Julia Gillard told, as government MPs, independents push for royal commission

    Quote
    JULIA Gillard faces growing calls for a royal commission into child sex abuse in the Catholic Church after Labor backbenchers joined the Greens and independents in demanding a national inquiry.

    The Greens demanded a royal commission after independent MP Tony Windsor said he would write to the Prime Minister to discuss an inquiry. Former Labor MP Craig Thomson, who now sits as an independent, said he would back any inquiry, while former Liberal turned independent Peter Slipper said the issue was "clearly a matter of concern".

    Independent South Australian senator Nick Xenophon said he would move a private member's bill for a royal commission if the government failed to act on the issue in a timely matter.


    Interesting response from our friendly neighbourhood cardinal:

    Quote
    But Australia's most powerful Catholic, Archbishop of Sydney George Pell, yesterday questioned whether a royal commission into sex abuse inside the church would serve any purpose.

    He was backed by Brisbane Archbishop Mark Coleridge and the Archbishop of Adelaide, Philip Wilson.

    Cardinal Pell used the opening remarks of his sermon at Sydney's St Mary's Cathedral to re-characterise the growing chorus for a federal inquiry as a "disproportionate" attack on the church.

    "We have to answer up for what we've done but any suggestion that we are the only culprit or only community producing culprits is entirely misleading," he said.

    Note that nobody has ever suggested the Catholic Church is the only culprit with regard to sexual abuse of children. Pell is trying (rather desperately) to obfuscate.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #3 - November 11, 2012, 09:29 PM

    Its worse than obfuscation - he's outright denying the reasons for the need to hold a public enquiry.  Its got nothing to do with the Catholic Church "producing culprits" , because as we all know its not the existence of culprits thats at issue.  Its the instutional cover up, the moving from parish to parish instead of reporting to the police, the gathering of "dirt" with which to discredit accusers under the guise of counselling victims, and other acts of institutionalised corruption.

    Every section of society produces culprits, but not every section of society covers up for them.  I'd be willing to bet that the Catholic Church will resist mandatory reporting in your country just as they did here until they were dragged kicking and screaming to it.  And sadly, sometimes those who are trying to bring them to book will unwittingly help them - beware, for example of those who think that the Seal of the Confessional is some kind of a problem here.  That's nonsense - the Seal of the Confessional only binds the priest hearing the confession, it doesn't stop the victim reporting nor the abuser confessing, nor does it even stop the priest hearing the confession from insisting that the abuser's penitence must take the form of confessing to the civil authorities.

    I liked the look of your PM when she was ripping a strip of the leader of the Opposition recently, so let's hope she does she right thing here and sets up a commission.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #4 - November 11, 2012, 09:40 PM

    That is terrible.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #5 - November 11, 2012, 10:22 PM

    I liked the look of your PM when she was ripping a strip of the leader of the Opposition recently, so let's hope she does she right thing here and sets up a commission.

    In general, our pollies don't like royal commisions for two reasons.

    1/ They are expensive.

    2/ They can't be controlled, and might find things you don't really want them to find.

    This thing is gaining momentum, though. We currently have investigations running in two states that I know of (NSW and Victoria) and in both states the cops are grumbling about being obstructed by the Catholic hierarchy. It's known that one of the old tactics used to be shipping miscreant priests across state borders to hide their pasts, and since the archbishop of Adelaide has just put his 2c in I am rather inclined to think he knows of skeletons in the closet in South Australia too. These three states all share borders, and transfers between them seem likely.

    My gut feeling at the moment is that the Labor government will try to stall opening a commission until after the next federal election (roughly 12 months away). If the Liberals get in then, the whole thing will probably sink without a trace (at least if Abbott is still leading the Libs). If Labor gets back in, I'd expect a commission in early 2014.

    I'd be willing to bet that the Catholic Church will resist mandatory reporting in your country just as they did here until they were dragged kicking and screaming to it.

    They did resist it, but these days they are legally required to report abuse AFAIK.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #6 - November 11, 2012, 10:26 PM

    And what do you think yourself, Os?  Do you think the separate investigations in various states are sufficient, or do you think a commission of enquiry which would cover the whole of Australia is necessary? 

    The latter option worked for us, but I maybe shouldn't assume its the best option for Australia.  Ireland is tiny, its not that big a deal for us to have a public enquiry into a state wide problem. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #7 - November 11, 2012, 10:33 PM

    I reckon it's daft to have a separate inquiry for each state. They're obviously all running into the same problems (at least where they are investigating) and some of the issues are bound to cross state borders. IOW, it's a national issue. Pretending otherwise seems counterproductive to me.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #8 - November 12, 2012, 12:14 AM

    Well at the scale it seems to be at surely the Catholic church should be tried for crimes to humanity (internationally) and corruption. Absolutely crazy, hate that church to the bottom of my gut.  finmad

    We all know that ain't gonna happen.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #9 - November 14, 2012, 08:52 PM

    Ok, they went and surprised me. Turns out we are getting a national (not state) royal commission.  dance

    They're currently sorting out terms of reference, etc. It's going to look at all institutions, not just the Catholic Church, but it's obvious the Catholic Church is the primary target. It also seems that the commission will have a legal mandate to force priests to break the seal of the confessional, which funnily enough some of them are a bit worried about.  parrot

    Protection of Confession under heavy fire

    Quote
    POLITICIANS of all persuasions, from Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott down, say Catholic priests must not be exempt from having to report child abuse to police should they hear it in the confession of a colleague.

    MPs said the royal commission into sexual abuse should examine the issue and recommend that, where necessary, state criminal codes be harmonised to mandate that priests go to the police in child sexual abuse matters.

    The federal Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, who is charged with setting up the commission, agreed the seal of Confession should be looked at, but she cautioned against too much focus on the issue. Ms Roxon said the commission's remit would be much broader than just the Catholic Church.

    And while the church ''will be a key part of this'', the issue of confessions not being referred to the police was not a major factor in the church when it came to covering up or failing to report child sexual abuse. ''While it's a difficult and prominent religious issue, it's not the core of what's being looked at,'' she said.

    Ms Roxon said there were ''much more blatant and open failures'' to stop abuse that needed to be examined and not just in the church, but other institutions as well. These included turning a blind eye to abuse, not acting on complaints by victims and not acting on ''open secrets'' that a certain individuals within organisations were child abusers.

    The federal government, which has begun consultations with the states, churches and other interested parties on the terms of reference, is aiming to have the details finalised at a premiers conference in Canberra on December 7.


    And Royal commission to consider confessional seal

    Quote
    The royal commission into child sex abuse is likely to consider whether Catholic priests should be forced to tell police about crimes against children told to them in the confessional.

    There are growing calls for priests to be subject to the same mandatory reporting rules that other professions are, despite church rules that the confessional should remain secret.

    Federal Attorney-General Nicola Roxon says the idea that priests are not required to go to the police with information about child abuse is "abhorrent".

    "Child sex abuse is a crime, it should be reported, and I know that the royal commission is going to have some very complex issues to deal with," Ms Roxon told ABC News 24, "But I think we can't afford to say that that should not be on the table, because clearly that is a concern."

    Australia's most senior Catholic, Sydney Archbishop George Pell, yesterday said the seal of confession was "inviolable", a position that has put him at odds with some senior MPs who are part of the church. New South Wales Premier Barry O'Farrell, who is a Catholic, says he cannot fathom why priests should not be required to pass on evidence of child abuse to police.

    Pell is one of the Catholic hierarchy who, just days ago, was insisting that an inquiry of any sort was not necessary. bunny


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #10 - November 14, 2012, 09:07 PM

    Good.  At least your politicians have some balls. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #11 - November 14, 2012, 09:09 PM

    Well, not all of them. Doesn't stop them though.  grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Catholic Church, again..............
     Reply #12 - November 15, 2012, 08:00 AM

    Look at this story too, in Spain. In cahoots with the Franco regime, stealing children.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15335899
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