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 Topic: Imraaz from Us

 (Read 5025 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Imraaz from Us
     OP - December 12, 2012, 04:42 PM

    Hi! I'm Imraaz, an ex-Muslim living in the USA. I'm hoping to participate in your discussions  thnkyu
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #1 - December 12, 2012, 04:43 PM

    Good to have you here  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #2 - December 12, 2012, 04:45 PM

    Clicking the link below on my profile will quickly take you to my personal blog.  Afro
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #3 - December 12, 2012, 04:45 PM

    Thanks  Afro
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #4 - December 13, 2012, 12:12 AM

    Welcome to the forum Imraaz.  I am also a new member here, joined a few days ago.  Your personal blog is an interesting read and in coherence with my my views on religion  Afro
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #5 - December 13, 2012, 12:19 AM

    Clicking the link below on my profile will quickly take you to my personal blog.  Afro


    Nice one. The forum has a twitter account these days, you can follow it if you like

    https://twitter.com/CEMB_forum


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #6 - December 13, 2012, 12:20 AM

    Welcome to the forum, Imraaz. signwelcome

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #7 - December 13, 2012, 12:39 AM

    Thanks shammy
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #8 - December 13, 2012, 12:41 AM

    Thanks guys ! Will keep in touch! I am following you in twitter Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #9 - December 14, 2012, 08:51 PM

    Hi Imaraaz.

    Thank you for your post in my thread and I appreciate your kind comments.  No I don't have a blog as such and to be honest I'm not that great with technology so I wouldn't have a clue how to create one.  Does you family know that you are non believer and if so how did they react? or did you manage to hypnotise them again  Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #10 - December 14, 2012, 09:25 PM

    hey Shammy Wink lol anytime Smiley I'm not really into technology much either. Especially writing. I'm very bad. But, I just can't stand the ignorance. People start to debate with me as if though they are somehow more rational, logical and knowledgeable . I don't enjoy repeating myself...lol thus, I started blogging. Oh yea, my family although strict, They know me a smart and devout believer. If I left Islam, they knew there had to be a good reason. Plus, a little bit of psychology and hypnosis has taught me how to manipulate human emotions to make it seem it was their fault they are still believers. lol Plus I'm in America. Lucky me! hehe

    First, they were upset like any good parent would be. My mom cried and tried to manipulate me with guilt and emotional blackmail. lol Doesn't work with me. The trick is, If YOU feel guilty and afraid, people will have power over you. If YOU act like it's a big deal, it will be a big deal. But if you do what the magicians do, you can get away with anything. If the magicians want you to focus on the left hand, he will look at the left hand with intent and focus, while he does the trick with his right hand. By the time the audience notices, it's already too late. lol My mom tried to kill herself.... I said "Stop saying you will kill yourself, Just do it. I handed her the knife. "..lol I'm not a bad child, I just happen to know how the human minds works. That was the last time she ever tried. Few days later I apologized and explain why I converted. .....she wanted me to talk to the mullahs and stuff. I did. He wasn't even close to converting me back to islam and his arguments were poor as hell lol   After talking to me, I wonder if he's still a Muslim. If you know what I mean lol

    I know you had trouble with your family. How is it now ?  Are you Indian ?

  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #11 - December 14, 2012, 09:54 PM

     parrot

    Would you mind discussing these ideas about diverting attention further, they might be very valuable.  Many here have serious issues with families and communities.  There is a programme on the BBC now called The Hour and that had a line about the best place to hide is in the spotlight.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #12 - December 14, 2012, 11:03 PM

    آداب امراض بھای
    signwelcome

    Indeed! misdirection is a very important tool in a magician's tool kit.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #13 - December 15, 2012, 02:38 AM

    Quote
    a little bit of psychology and hypnosis has taught me how to manipulate


    I'll give you $100 to hypnotise my family. $100 per member  yes

    Welcome! parrot

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #14 - December 15, 2012, 04:17 AM

    To moi and Jila  :
    Quote
    Would you mind discussing these ideas about diverting attention further, they might be very valuable

           It's exactly what it appears to me. Quite vague, what exactly do you want to get done ? You see, It all boils down to "Suggestion". Being indirect. The more indirect, the better. Every primitive culture has communicated and passed down it's values by stories, and metaphors. We see alot of stories and values in religious books because this is how ideas are passed down. For instance, If you want to convince someone that you are a Genus in Physics(when you're not), saying "I'm good at physics" can a very poor strategy based on the context. Instead, if you carry around with you Physics books, a sheet of complex calculations downloaded from the internet, a little bit of scribbling, will indirectly communicate your knowledge in physics. Instead saying "I drive a 1 million dollar car" which can come across as boasting, It's better your million dollar car keys visible. Every now and then, refer to it as a two-seater. It will get peoples attention. In their mind "those key chains say Ferrari, he/she often refer to it as two seated. could he be driving an expensive Ferrari ?"  Their curiosity will lead them to ask you, what kind of car do you drive ? Then you say its a Ferrari. They will ask, "How much ?" Then, and only then it's wise to say "it cost me a million bucks". It communicates great value. I know these examples are irrelevant, but once you begin to think it terms of suggesting an Idea, planting ideas indirectly,  instead of just "saying it".... It sticks in peoples head right away. While they think you're just being cool, you're actually thinking few steps ahead and plating all these ideas already. This is just basics. Ill just write some random stuff that come into my head, excuse the grammar. Smiley

    If you want people to agree with you more often, It's called the law of reciprocity. You give them a gift, and then ask for a favor. People do these kinds of manipulative things all the time. Another principal is Law of consistency, Where you get people to say "yes" the first time. You might ask a small favor. Then, you ask a little big favor. Then you continue asking a bigger favor. On and On. Human beings have a need to be consistent. Research has shown people who agree once are more likely to agree the second time.

    A trick I often use In communication is called pacing and leading. Where you ask two question that requires a "YES" and then  following it with your hidden true request.  A Manager at work might say something like this to his employee: "You've done a good job(Yes), you've completed the project(Yes), I'd like you to do this one as well." You'd be surprised to notice how easily this works. Research shows just by using the word "because" you can bump up the chances for agreement. I can't quite remember how much, but I think by 80%.  Ex: Standing In a line for photocopy machine, "Can I stand it front of you ?" almost 70% people said "NO". Then the researches retried the experiment with  "Can I stand in front of you BECAUSE I have to take some photocopies" and almost 80% said YES. I'm not quite sure about the percentage but it gives you an idea how language and influence people.

    If you're interested in these kinds of things you can read books like , "influence by robert cialdini", Language patterns of Milton Erickson, Covert Hypnosis...etc

    In your case, instead of saying you're a non-believer right away. Plant ideas step by step. Indirectly Plant the idea like  "I'm studying Islam with reason", "I'm know more about Islam than you do", "It's ok to question beliefs", "I'm scientific", "I'm a better Muslim than you are", "Islam has a few thins that are not quite right", "Thee are things we should question in Islam", "these things are wrong in Islam", "I'm starting to doubt Islam",  "Islam is Wrong".........you get my point ? The idea is to get your parents approve of what you do. They won't say NO to being a better muslim. They won't say No o questioning beliefs. they won't say No to being scientific......You can gradually change their mind.

    In addition to those, I use hypnosis. Hypnosis is not the traditional "Watch" and close your eyes thing. You can plant an Idea in someone's head with just a conversation. This field is called, Covert Hypnosis and NLP (Neruro Linguistic Programming). I had a friend who smoked weed and for some unknown reason he felt depressed when at home. He was suffering from depression, He went to a psychologist, neurosurgeon and nothing worked. He explained this to me, and we had a 15 mins conversation. Next day he woke me up 7am to tell me, He felt absolutely calm and relaxed. He hadn't had depression since then. Hypnosis is a great tool to use. It doesn't have to be waving a watch in front of a person.

    Did you notice how I planted the idea that says "I'm a good hypnotist by telling a story of my friend and comparing my skill to a neurosurgeon and psycologist ?" lol   OH Btw, That's a true story. lol

    Please excuse my Grammar and spellings and random capitalizations. lol

     

  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #15 - December 15, 2012, 04:33 AM

    Welcome to the forum   signwelcome

    Have a complementary parrot   parrot

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #16 - December 15, 2012, 04:34 AM

     Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #17 - December 15, 2012, 05:07 AM

    ..........................



    Brilliant ! You would have made a very good dawah merchant ! Ah! the mysteries and the power of the subconscious mind.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #18 - December 15, 2012, 05:33 AM

    lol  Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #19 - December 15, 2012, 05:33 AM

    Thanks
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #20 - December 15, 2012, 09:07 AM


     
    Afro Afro Punk Punk

    It's very easy for an INDIVIDUAL to see this truth, but group think has always been in fashion because of the fact that man is a social animal, nevertheless it's a healthy practice to become lone rangers time and again and emulate OBE to weed out any hypocrisy in your dearly held views.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #21 - December 15, 2012, 09:09 AM


    that is a good one hypy nut how do we figure out "What is right"?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #22 - December 15, 2012, 11:37 AM

     Cheesy This was quoted @ Imraaz's site. BTW who quotes the "golden rule" endlessly ?  Smiley . Of course there are caveats to this rule but it should work just fine in most of the cases.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #23 - December 15, 2012, 01:52 PM

     Smiley True. And yes, we do have an internal compass for what's good and what's not. (human beings with a healthy psychology). The thing is, most people believe once you abandon religion, we should abandon seeking knowledge all together. Now this is not true. Religion was our only source of encouragement of morality. Religious scriptures may have things that are not right. However, religious authorities do preach good morals as well. The problem with religion is that it's morality never grows. Religious morality slows human progress. it's stuck to 1400 years old. Maybe a little bit of distortion done by authorities to fit the time period we live in. But when you abandon religion, if you abandon seeking knowledge and what's good all together, you're not much different. The ideal practice is, once you've abandon religion, Now you have a person responsibility to be a good person. This is much more liberating. You must seek for knowledge. Science and Philosophy can teach you a lot.  Logic and reason can teach you a lot about morality. We can have more and more Socrates and Aristotle's in this day and age. Now we can think and grow Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #24 - December 15, 2012, 02:01 PM

    up
    This      Afro



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #25 - December 15, 2012, 09:43 PM

    Hi Imraaz.
    Its good to hear that you managed to get your parents to see your point of view eventually and I totally agree that the way in which parents are approached regarding a person becoming a non believer is important and using a bit of human psychology can make them see the possibility that Islam is wrong.  I agree, that rather than just suddenly telling the parents I am a non believer and these are my reasons it would be wise as a step by step process.  Personally I would start by telling my parents that a muslim friend has said to me that she has doubts about Islam due to xyz.  Then I would say that I know my friend is wrong but I don't understand she says that e.g. the Quran says the stars are closer than the moon would-which is not true from what we now know.  Then I would say i'm sure there's some misunderstanding somewhere but sura x says that you should not just go by heresay but do your own research into religion (there is one sura that says that, im sure) so I think I should try and the find the answers for my friend to stop her going astray... Then I would gradually inform my parents of my research and hopefully I would have answers to any statements or questions that arise from them.  Call it lucky or unlucky I'm not sure but my family don't have a problem with my beliefs any more as they kinda disowned me long time ago so I do my own thing anyway.  I feel sorry for people here who have to hide their beliefs and live to Islamic rules when they are now non believers but unfortunately I think even if most Muslim parents are enlightened about the falseness of Islam they will still not allow their children to live freely due  do to what the rest of the Muslim community will think..I think best way would be to get a good education and become independent so if worse comes to worse the person can move out...though I am not recommending losing your family over religion the grass is not always greener on the other side!. As for whether I am Indian no I am from the land of pure lol..Its funny that you say that you wonder if the mullah that you spoke to is still Muslim...When I was questioning religion I spoke to a Mullah too and I pointed out the scientific flaws in the Quran and he was shocked and said he never looked at the Quran in that way before, I too wonder if he is still Muslim..Its such a shame as he did a Phd in Islamic studies and lived in Saudi for many years.  How cheated one must feel when discovering that it is all man made.
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #26 - December 15, 2012, 11:10 PM

     Shammy, Nice to know your thoughts and how you influenced your parents Smiley . btw I've never come across the stars are closer to earth than moon, I'll look for it. It'll be my 1000 + 1 point to mock religion. lol 
    Quote
    I feel sorry for people here who have to hide their beliefs and live to Islamic rules

     This is precisely what upsets me. I honestly don't know what it is like to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic law. But the word "Islamic" gives me a pretty good idea. Nonetheless, I know what it is like to feel stuck, condemned and having to pretend to be a Muslim. and The effect that can have on our self-esteem. Not being able to feel good about ourselves, and be who we truly are is something to feel sad:(
    Quote
    due  do to what the rest of the Muslim community

     This is so true. I've observed this a lot in my parents and other's. Half of their lives, they live up to an image of what the community expects them to be. I have to go to Jumma because uncle Hussain will be there. lol Living in a secular nation in much more liberating. No one gives a shit about what others do. Work work and work. I used to live in srilanka. I doubt If I'd be able to be as anti-religious as I am here. I could be an atheist, but anti-religious, I doubt it. Some Muslim might shoot me in the head and say "he's destined to die. it's good will".

    Yes, by all means. Education and moving out. In my early days, I didn't like the American system of living independent.  Now that's what makes the most sense. Personal responsibility is always good.

    haha he probably is a secret atheist now. Most mullahs are just like the one you talked to. Their parents force them into it, or somehow influence them to be a mullah. Perhaps, Islamic faith schools and stuff. Once the child grows up to 19 years, he has all those information in his head, it's best he become an "Islamic scholar".  Wouldn't you ? what's the alternative, an evolutionary biologist ? lol  Otherwise would be to accept the fact that he's wasted 19 years studying bull shit. He has no other choice. Some of them gets famous and others don't. To be honest, some are even tired of living a life like that. I'm worshipping god all my life and look at the happy millionaire Muslim...Imagine if you were a mullah and how would you feel if Allah treated you like this ? For the first few years, it's ok. But after your 40th year...it's exhausting.  In fact, the best people to preach "atheism" lol would be to the young mullah's in their 30's. Some of them are very sincere in their beliefs. When you introduce these scientific inconsistencies, it will make them think out of curiosity. Why is Allah saying this ? On the other hand, the regular hypocritical person will say "Oh allah has some reason to say it..." and do away with thinking and responsibility  while the mullah will try to understand you. Not all cases, but better chance. After all, it's a challenge in his world.
    Quote
    I too wonder if he is still Muslim

     haha  Cheesy

    Quote
    I am from the land of pure

     oh ok miss. pure!!  we are the untouchables. The evil. lol

    g2g exams.. Smiley



  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #27 - December 16, 2012, 12:33 AM

    Nice reading from you Imraaz..  I am originally from Pakistan but now living in the UK..I am so grateful that I live in this country..Anyway good luck for your exams.
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #28 - December 16, 2012, 12:40 AM

    thanks  Smiley
  • Imraaz from Us
     Reply #29 - December 16, 2012, 12:49 AM

    ........................ I don't enjoy repeating myself...lol thus, I started blogging. Oh yea, my family although strict, They know me a smart and devout believer. If I left Islam, they knew there had to be a good reason. Plus, a little bit of psychology and hypnosis has taught me how to manipulate human emotions to make it seem it was their fault they are still believers. lol Plus I'm in America. Lucky me! hehe

    First, they were upset like any good parent would be. My mom cried and tried to manipulate me with guilt and emotional blackmail. lol Doesn't work with me. The trick is, If YOU feel guilty and afraid, people will have power over you. If YOU act like it's a big deal, it will be a big deal. But if you do what the magicians do, you can get away with anything. If the magicians want you to focus on the left hand, he will look at the left hand with intent and focus, while he does the trick with his right hand. By the time the audience notices, it's already too late. lol My mom tried to kill herself.... I said "Stop saying you will kill yourself, Just do it. I handed her the knife. "..lol I'm not a bad child, I just happen to know how the human minds works. That was the last time she ever tried. .................

     hello Anti_Theist   glad to read you..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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