Hallo, need to discuss some of my doubt

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- Ibrahim
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Hallo, need to discuss some of my doubt
OP - December 17, 2012, 04:12 AM

This is my first time registering on a forum, while English is not my native language. My peculiarity writing in dialogue in addition with unfamiliarity with english might cause some difficulties in comprehending my statement. Anyway this is part of the reason registering here so as hoping I could improve my writing skills in expressing myself.

More importantly to bear in mind with is that I am a student albeit in holiday, so do not expect me to know thoroughly on the Quran and Hadith. Right now I might have a bit different version of Islam compared to my friends and family. Why? Because I have tons of question unanswered to make my clear my resolution and such.

Hope you guys can help me
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Reply #1 - December 17, 2012, 05:31 AM

Welcome to the forums Ibrahim
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Reply #2 - December 17, 2012, 05:43 AM

Thank you!

Just realised this thread does not seems to be in right section. (To mod: please feel free to move it if is)
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Reply #3 - December 17, 2012, 05:52 AM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 04:12 AM
My peculiarity writing in dialogue in addition with unfamiliarity with english might cause some difficulties in comprehending my statement. Anyway this is part of the reason registering here so as hoping I could improve my writing skills in expressing myself.

Don't try too hard when you're writing English. Short words are always better than long.

As for the rest, beware. This forum is a hotbed of bad bad people (or so some would have you believe).
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Reply #4 - December 17, 2012, 06:05 AM

Quote from: David on December 17, 2012, 05:52 AM
Don't try too hard when you're writing English. Short words are always better than long.

As for the rest, beware. This forum is a hotbed of bad bad people (or so some would have you believe).

Hotbed of bad lad? I yet to find bad peoples here, though I might change my opinion later! Who are the bad guys?
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Reply #5 - December 17, 2012, 06:17 AM

Welcome!

And here's your parrot.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

The sleeper has awakened - Dune

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
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Reply #6 - December 17, 2012, 07:02 AM
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Reply #7 - December 17, 2012, 07:07 AM

Welcome What doubts are you having?

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Reply #8 - December 17, 2012, 07:18 AM

Quote from: Sakura02 on December 17, 2012, 07:07 AM
Welcome What doubts are you having?

My doubts goes like this, if we tend to be wrong on our beliefs and assumption and everything, where do we place our foundation or bedrock of our knowledge? An indubitable foundation in a sense ( some might argue our belief is a nexus of our belief, there's really no foundation, but that is a presupposition too ironically).

I doubt that there is no transcendent being.

Edit: I need to add something of it. What I meant by the foundation of our believe, is where we risk the whole building of understanding on to it. There will always be element of doubt there but this where we decide to bet on it.

Some may choose to not to hold on anything unless there is sufficient (according to whichever standard they self-impose) evidence to support it. But the standard is quite vague and seemingly subjective and arbitrary.

Knowing that we live and how sophisticated life and the universe is, we know there are possibly myriads of questions will be unanswered in our life time. Many people believed this does not implies anything, but for me I am convinced otherwise. I feel to reject there is no transcendent being is in a "loose" sense, a decision too, which I choose not to forgo.

I believe there are no direct black and white answer, it somehow lies between "yes" and "no" there is transcendent being who influenced the creation and formation of universe and beings. Feeling I could not reject the possibility of there is a being wholeheartedly, then it create the next issue. Does the being actively participate in the history of mankind. I know most people would say I was making unfounded assumption upon assumption, but this is what I truly felt.
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Reply #9 - December 17, 2012, 07:43 AM

The bedrock is ourselves, our thinking, and our thinking about each other Gods are stuff we invented to try and find a bedrock.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm

Quote
When we think of God as the creator, we are thinking of him, most of the time, as a supernal artisan. Whatever doctrine we may be considering, whether it be a doctrine like that of Descartes, or of Leibnitz himself, we always imply that the will follows, more or less, from the understanding or at least accompanies it, so that when God creates he knows precisely what he is creating. Thus, the conception of man in the mind of God is comparable to that of the paper-knife in the mind of the artisan: God makes man according to a procedure and a conception, exactly as the artisan manufactures a paper-knife, following a definition and a formula. Thus each individual man is the realisation of a certain conception which dwells in the divine understanding. In the philosophic atheism of the eighteenth century, the notion of God is suppressed, but not, for all that, the idea that essence is prior to existence; something of that idea we still find everywhere, in Diderot, in Voltaire and even in Kant. Man possesses a human nature; that “human nature,” which is the conception of human being, is found in every man; which means that each man is a particular example of a universal conception, the conception of Man. In Kant, this universality goes so far that the wild man of the woods, man in the state of nature and the bourgeois are all contained in the same definition and have the same fundamental qualities. Here again, the essence of man precedes that historic existence which we confront in experience.

Atheistic existentialism, of which I am a representative, declares with greater consistency that if God does not exist there is at least one being whose existence comes before its essence, a being which exists before it can be defined by any conception of it. That being is man or, as Heidegger has it, the human reality

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #10 - December 17, 2012, 07:51 AM

Thank you Moi, I will have a read

Btw, I am not well versed in philosophy, so there will be many concepts and stuff I will learn incorrectly.

Quote from: moi on December 17, 2012, 07:43 AM

The bedrock is ourselves, our thinking, and our thinking about each other Gods are stuff we invented to try and find a bedrock.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm

It is true that we can create an imagination of a being inside our mind which the concepts differ from person to person. Atheist on the other hand, rejects it outright, and I presume that is what you believe. But that is what we decide is not it? As far I am concerned, we are free to deny everything.

There was researched in the past that shows infant by nature believed in God. If the research is true, denying God is against our instinct. Not that this shows there is a God since our instinct sometimes indeed goes horribly wrong. But it does make me wonder at least. Why and should we believe against this? On what basis? The question on what basis makes me dread and decide to post here
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Reply #11 - December 17, 2012, 09:20 AM

Ibrahim do you feel the need to reject that their is a God or Creator? I for one am agnostic where I still believe there is some hope that God exists. Like you I have not felt in a position to deny or affirm the existance of a creator. In fact looking at the universe it would be highly likely that there is a creator of some sort in my opinions. Were still a very primitive species so it is just way beyond our capacity of understanding.

Having said that if there is a God would he expect us to follow a religion like Islam? Woud he expect us to believe in him without evidence or proof of his existance? And punish us because of our ignorance?

I am one to believe, like a good friend just recently told me, that if there is a God he has left us up to our own devices.
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Reply #12 - December 17, 2012, 10:03 AM

The infant thing is our agency detection device. A wind rustles in a forest, is it the wind or is a jaguar about to pounce on us? It is very sensible to err on the side of caution and assume jaguar, or demon, or god, and live for another day, than to say, oh it is just the wind, and get eaten.

Snag is that is not the case, the choices are actually only wind or jaguar, not troll under the paving stones!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #13 - December 17, 2012, 10:23 AM

Quote from: mujahid on December 17, 2012, 09:20 AM

Ibrahim do you feel the need to reject that their is a God or Creator? I for one am agnostic where I still believe there is some hope that God exists. Like you I have not felt in a position to deny or affirm the existance of a creator. In fact looking at the universe it would be highly likely that there is a creator of some sort in my opinions. Were still a very primitive species so it is just way beyond our capacity of understanding.

Having said that if there is a God would he expect us to follow a religion like Islam? Woud he expect us to believe in him without evidence or proof of his existance? And punish us because of our ignorance?

I am one to believe, like a good friend just recently told me, that if there is a God he has left us up to our own devices.

If ( a big if) God exist, we would never even possibly imagine to get close on his essence or nature. I agree if God exist we are left on our own. Depends on how we formulated God in our imagination, people will have dissimilar ideas and perception. It is impossible for one to understand what the other concepts of God is. It is like a feeling, we can imagine how or what other felts, but we can never share the same experience of pain or sadness.

So how one define how God is? What he is supposed to do and what will he never do? This where I disagree with most other deist. Practically, everyone have their own criteria. We may disclose the criteria, and argue and debate on it, but in the end it will not solve this issue. The language we are using have serious limitation to communicate these intangible thoughts and concepts for one. The other is it there are no true guideline of what is right or wrong, because this is what we ourselves make of it. It will be useful, but it will not solve completely.

I feel and trust that the transcendent being is judging us based on what we know and how we react with it in relationship to Him. I think this is the symbolism what are being shown through history. I place less premium of morality and ethics in the equation. We can go deeper to this but do share me your thoughts
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Reply #14 - December 17, 2012, 10:38 AM

Quote from: moi on December 17, 2012, 10:03 AM
The infant thing is our agency detection device. A wind rustles in a forest, is it the wind or is a jaguar about to pounce on us? It is very sensible to err on the side of caution and assume jaguar, or demon, or god, and live for another day, than to say, oh it is just the wind, and get eaten.

Snag is that is not the case, the choices are actually only wind or jaguar, not troll under the paving stones!

I remember watching discovery channel on how all or most if not all animals went crazy few hours before a tsunami strikes. Talks about intuition and how spot on they were! Just amazing...
Yea I agree with you we can discard many possibilities as pure bullocks, butagain we judge it for ourselves
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Reply #15 - December 17, 2012, 10:48 AM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 10:23 AM
If ( a big if) God exist, ..... his essence .
Depends on how we formulated God in our imagination,..
..define how God is? What he is..... he never....
.....relationship to Him..

hello Ibrahim greetings and my good wishes to you. Welcome to CEMB

It appears that you have formulated yourself "God as He".
Is there any good reason for that? Did you formulate yourself that notion "The god being He" ?
Or..or.. did you get from some books or from your parents or from the society ?

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Reply #16 - December 17, 2012, 10:52 AM

Quote from: mujahid on December 17, 2012, 09:20 AM

.......... I still believe there is some hope that God exists.
..... existance of a creator...............
. if there is a God would he expect ............
Woud he expect us to believe in him without evidence or proof of his existance? ......

hmmm.., Your God is also "He" mujahid?

I killed my he god when I was child..... Damn many of you guys are wonderful children..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #17 - December 17, 2012, 10:59 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 17, 2012, 10:48 AM
hello Ibrahim greetings and my good wishes to you. Welcome to CEMB

It appears that you have formulated yourself "God as He".
Is there any good reason for that? Did you formulate yourself that notion "The god being He" ?
Or..or.. did you get from some books or from your parents or from the society ?

Hello, thanks for the wish

Well I think using the conventional way to designate God is a good reason for me.
We make a concept which supposed to be living, you can call it or she, it does not mean much apart from how we represents him.
And I get books from internets mostly

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Reply #18 - December 17, 2012, 11:03 AM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 07:51 AM
There was researched in the past that shows infant by nature believed in God. If the research is true, denying God is against our instinct. Not that this shows there is a God since our instinct sometimes indeed goes horribly wrong. But it does make me wonder at least. Why and should we believe against this? On what basis? The question on what basis makes me dread and decide to post here

I know of some research along those lines. It was carried out by evolutionary psychologists.
Theists often point to it as proof that there is a god, and he has endowed us with innate knowledge of him.
But this is not the interpretation that the scientists have. They look at it as either a beneficial survival trait, perhaps as a way of promoting group cohesiveness that comes with religion (e.g, the brotherhood and sisterhood of Islam), or as a side product of other traits with other evolutionary advantages.

It is similar to the way that kids generally believe whatever their parents tell them. There is an obvious evolutionary explanation for that. Parents will normally give their kid good advice and warnings. In fact this is probably a large part of the reason why religion continues to survive. But we should not look to the traits that children have in order to determine what we should be doing and believing. Kids will believe any old rubbish.

If children believe in god(s), it doesn't mean that theism is true, it means that theism is childish. Atheists are people who have grown out of it.

I also think it is funny when the same people who think that evolutionary psychology proves that there is a god, believe that evolution itself is a myth.
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Reply #19 - December 17, 2012, 11:09 AM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 10:59 AM
Well I think using the conventional way to designate God is a good reason for me.

but whose conventions/convictions are they? you are clearly a believer in God that was formulated by some one as "He" . Don't you want to question the conventions/convictions when it comes to this "god" that controls the lives of billions of people overtly or covertly on this earth?

Quote
We make a concept which supposed to be living, you can call it or she, it does not mean much apart from how we represents him.

I know I can call it(god) as she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat .

But do you really think it doesn't make any difference for you if you start thinking god as she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat etc ??

I don't think so . Try this from to day., Try formulating your god in your mind "NOT AS HE" but something else anything "she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat " ., and NEVER CALL YOUR GOD AS "HE". Do that for year. And you must do that on paper "when you are writing" or when you are talking to people and when you are praying to god.

I can assure you .. you will change for ever and your thinking about god will change for ever..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #20 - December 17, 2012, 11:27 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 17, 2012, 11:09 AM
but whose conventions/convictions are they? you are clearly a believer in God that was formulated by some one as "He" . Don't you want to question the conventions/convictions when it comes to this "god" that controls the lives of billions of people overtly or covertly on this earth?
I know I can call it(god) as she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat .

But do you really think it doesn't make any difference for you if you start thinking god as she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat etc ??

I don't think so . Try this from to day., Try formulating your god in your mind "NOT AS HE" but something else anything "she, it, gay, lesbian, dog, cat, rat " ., and NEVER CALL YOUR GOD AS "HE". Do that for year. And you must do that on paper "when you are writing" or when you are talking to people and when you are praying to god.

I can assure you .. you will change for ever and your thinking about god will change for ever..

It does influence our conception of God, and it will change your perception about God too if you re-start using He. I believe it is still individual preferences

But if you're talking about a being that created the universe, surely you would try give a proper pronoun for Him. Whether or not human abuse this concept substantially is a different question and matter.
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Reply #21 - December 17, 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 10:23 AM
If ( a big if) God exist, we would never even possibly imagine to get close on his essence or nature. I agree if God exist we are left on our own. Depends on how we formulated God in our imagination, people will have dissimilar ideas and perception. It is impossible for one to understand what the other concepts of God is. It is like a feeling, we can imagine how or what other felts, but we can never share the same experience of pain or sadness.

So how one define how God is? What he is supposed to do and what will he never do? This where I disagree with most other deist. Practically, everyone have their own criteria. We may disclose the criteria, and argue and debate on it, but in the end it will not solve this issue. The language we are using have serious limitation to communicate these intangible thoughts and concepts for one. The other is it there are no true guideline of what is right or wrong, because this is what we ourselves make of it. It will be useful, but it will not solve completely.

I feel and trust that the transcendent being is judging us based on what we know and how we react with it in relationship to Him. I think this is the symbolism what are being shown through history. I place less premium of morality and ethics in the equation. We can go deeper to this but do share me your thoughts

I think that is just it... people are always trying to define and label things.. EVerything from mental disorders to things they don't have a clue about like God. Its ridiculous.. Why cant he just be??? Why do we have to think about it so much and allow it to affect other people based on beliefs we do not even know is true or not.

Belief in God is a very personal thing. I always say follow your heart, keep an open mind free from bias and be a good human being to the best you can without hurting others.

* for lack of a way to define God I stick to the original "HE" for ease of use. I did originally say it/she/he/thing but thought against it.
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Reply #22 - December 17, 2012, 01:48 PM

Quote from: mujahid on December 17, 2012, 12:02 PM
...
* for lack of a way to define God I stick to the original "HE" for ease of use. I did originally say it/she/he/thing but thought against it.

That response appears to help me understand your point of view on god dear mujahid..,

The fact god/your god/personal god.. whatever god.. lol is undefinable should have made you to change calling or pronouncing god as "he" mujahid. If you are unable to get over that means, you are brainwashed right from the childhood(which happens to billions of children) to think god as " he" and you are unable get over that, though you got rid of god of books/scriptures.

Correct me if i am wrong mujahid

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I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #23 - December 17, 2012, 01:56 PM

Quote from: Ibrahim on December 17, 2012, 11:27 AM
It does influence our conception of God, and it will change your perception about God too if you re-start using He. I believe it is still individual preferences

But if you're talking about a being that created the universe, surely you would try give a proper pronoun for Him. Whether or not human abuse this concept substantially is a different question and matter.

Hmm., you do have some logic there., Logic of William Lane Craig but why would you need to give a proper pronoun for god?? and why that has to be "he"?. Why don't you start calling your god as "she"? at least "She" .. start that from to day Ibrahim.

Any way, what do you think are the attribute of god.. what are the characteristics of your "He god" Ibrahim?

But I am glad to read you.. please continue to educate the readers on the concept of "god"

with best regards
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #24 - December 17, 2012, 02:26 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 17, 2012, 01:56 PM
Hmm., you do have some logic there., Logic of William Lane Craig but why would you need to give a proper pronoun for god?? and why that has to be "he"?. Why don't you start calling your god as "she"? at least "She" .. start that from to day Ibrahim.

Any way, what do you think are the attribute of god.. what are the characteristics of your "He god" Ibrahim?

But I am glad to read you.. please continue to educate the readers on the concept of "god"

with best regards
yeezevee

Let say you and your large family trying to get a political asylum from Islamic countries. Say after 2 years you arrived in, say Canada, you heard a rumour that someone spend countless of hours helping your family behind the scene to get through. Even if your sibling abuse the rumour by deceit, it is unfair for you to call the supposedly person discourteously, regardless whether the rumour is false. Likewise, the contention here is gender, if the entity in gender neutral it is norm to use he or it, while she always connote it is feminine and have its opposite gender. Well you could say what stopping me from believing there are indeed male and female god and goddess, in the end it is what we believe like I initially said.

I believe the transcendent being is at least conscious if not actively participating in human history. And we have free limited choices based on our predecessor did and what we acquire through our lives. One of those choices is how do we relate to him when are brought to know of these religion which supposedly came from Him. We make our choice and He register it.
All of this bullshit if He doesn't exist, I am perfectly aware of that
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Reply #25 - December 17, 2012, 02:46 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 17, 2012, 01:48 PM
That response appears to help me understand your point of view on god dear mujahid..,

The fact god/your god/personal god.. whatever god.. lol is undefinable should have made you to change calling or pronouncing god as "he" mujahid. If you are unable to get over that means, you are brainwashed right from the childhood(which happens to billions of children) to think god as " he" and you are unable get over that, though you got rid of god of books/scriptures.

Correct me if i am wrong mujahid

Completely wrong.. as I said it is just ease of use and means nothing more to me. But yes everything we are is an element of the way were were raised and the way we convey our beliefs in thought and spoken/written word will hold elements of that upbringing. For me it seems easiest to call God a He but only because I am from a patriarchal family where men rule the roost. The concept of God to me would be that of a ruler therefore I find it easier to associate him with being male in spoken word although in reality I do not associate God with a gender or birth at all if I think of him. In fact I hardly think about God or try to define him in any way other then being a creator and protector.

But yes I do believe in God.. faintly. Although I don't see how my limited linguistical ability and use of "he" should give you any clue to other then my own background and experiences. It certainly gives you a background of previous beliefs but not those of present ones unless one is convinced that bad habits stop the moment beliefs radically change??
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Reply #26 - December 17, 2012, 08:33 PM

Here Ibrahim these are some youtube channels that helped me when I was having doubts about Islam

This is a good channel on philosophical arguments against religion
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUc_xdkOBgSYLmXTn-VSQ4uA

This is the best channel for critique's of the Quran and the religion of Islam from a historical perceptive
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lorientalist

These two channels are good for debunking the false science miracle claims made by muslims apologists
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIslammiracle

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRationalizer

Oh and Welcome to the forum

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #27 - December 19, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from: mujahid on December 17, 2012, 02:46 PM
Completely wrong.. as I said it is just ease of use and means nothing more to me. But yes everything we are is an element of the way were were raised and the way we convey our beliefs in thought and spoken/written word will hold elements of that upbringing. For me it seems easiest to call God a He but only because I am from a patriarchal family where men rule the roost. The concept of God to me would be that of a ruler therefore I find it easier to associate him with being male in spoken word although in reality I do not associate God with a gender or birth at all if I think of him. In fact I hardly think about God or try to define him in any way other then being a creator and protector.

But yes I do believe in God.. faintly. Although I don't see how my limited linguistical ability and use of "he" should give you any clue to other then my own background and experiences. It certainly gives you a background of previous beliefs but not those of present ones unless one is convinced that bad habits stop the moment beliefs radically change??

It's really interesting when you look at old cultures and religions that worship goddess. =p The Abraham religions give barely any respect to women even though it's them that is needed to carry on life. If you have a tribe: 1 woman and 5 men, they'll have a hard time growing. If you had a tribe with 5 women 1 man, they'll grow. You need more women than men to make a society grow. Sorry having a feminist moment here. That's why it ticks me off that the creation story with Adam and Eve has nothing to do maternal birth to child LIKE REAL LIFE. The male god, just took a rib and created a woman. It's the most nonsensical idea of the 'birth' of mankind even by myth standards. If God was male... and he created mankind, you'd think men would be the one popping out all the babies. Again pointless to put logic to religion.

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Reply #28 - December 19, 2012, 11:17 AM

Quote from: Sakura02 on December 19, 2012, 04:56 AM
It's really interesting when you look at old cultures and religions that worship goddess. =p The Abraham religions give barely any respect to women even though it's them that is needed to carry on life. If you have a tribe: 1 woman and 5 men, they'll have a hard time growing. If you had a tribe with 5 women 1 man, they'll grow. You need more women than men to make a society grow. Sorry having a feminist moment here. That's why it ticks me off that the creation story with Adam and Eve has nothing to do maternal birth to child LIKE REAL LIFE. The male god, just took a rib and created a woman. It's the most nonsensical idea of the 'birth' of mankind even by myth standards. If God was male... and he created mankind, you'd think men would be the one popping out all the babies. Again pointless to put logic to religion.

There are various interpretation of the story, for any story. Some people could have interpreted the creation of eve from rib signify women are companions to men and they are made different in nature.

Women are biological different from men, this is a fact. Read Brezendine books (which are published for lay people).
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Hallo, need to discuss some of my doubt
Reply #29 - December 19, 2012, 11:33 AM

Quote from: TheDarkRebel on December 17, 2012, 08:33 PM
Here Ibrahim these are some youtube channels that helped me when I was having doubts about Islam

This is a good channel on philosophical arguments against religion
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUc_xdkOBgSYLmXTn-VSQ4uA

This is the best channel for critique's of the Quran and the religion of Islam from a historical perceptive
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lorientalist

These two channels are good for debunking the false science miracle claims made by muslims apologists
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIslammiracle

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRationalizer

Oh and Welcome to the forum

Thanks for all the links! I appreciate it

And I found the atheist argument against the existent of God is more of indifferent towards the huge inexplicable phenomena and events for this universe. It is very unconvincing for me and many other people even those who do not subscribe to a particular organised religion to disown the possibility of existence for some transcendsnt being alltogether. I guess it will never definitely seal the question for the foreseen future. As long as there is some possibility for a creator or designer for this world, despite how minuscule they are, I convicted that religion is His way to communicate with us.

The Quran seems to held many Aristotelian and neo-plato naturalistic worldview, contradictory and incoherent. But its critics is way off in interpreting what it wants to convey, sorts of literalism and disregarding many of its main theme and message.
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