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Reply #90 - January 13, 2013, 07:08 PM

the space module on the moon left for earth at 17:54:01 universal time, 54:1 is that verse talking about the splitting of the moon. Any takes on that?
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Reply #91 - January 13, 2013, 09:11 PM

and also, considering that you guys read about the 1390 verses "miracle", the space module on the moon left for earth at 17:54:01 universal time, 54:1 is that verse talking about the splitting of the moon. Any takes on that? I know, I did understand your point about how it wouldn't make sense that a powerful being would not make a numbers game. But considering mathematics by itself, isn't that an extremely minute probability for both of those things to happen, especially for the same verse?
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Reply #92 - January 13, 2013, 09:29 PM

Come on mate, you are fixating to much on hidden meanings which are not there. All this is, is baseless conjecture. It is post hoc rationalisation and frankly it could be done by anyone. For instance christians can easily claim that the quran contains these things to distract muslims from the true teaching of jesus and a way to test faith. See we can all do it.
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Reply #93 - January 13, 2013, 09:30 PM

Again, there is nothing miraculous about this. Given enough time and determination, one can find a thousand such "miracles" in any ancient text. If years don't work, try dates. If the dates don't work, try the times. If the times don't work, switch up the timezones. Eventually, you'll find your irrefutable miracles. If this is the best God can do to prove his case, he must not care too much whether or not we believe in him.
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Reply #94 - January 13, 2013, 09:49 PM

yeah i guess you guys are right, its just .. i dont know..it seems so mathematically impossible.
By the way, i am sorry for annoying you guys, its just that this is the only place i can ask help from, and these coincidences/miracles have been troubling me for a long time, even though they may not be as troublesome for you guys. The more I discuss about this, the more it seems to make more sense, because it's hard to live a life with so much confusion, where on one hand, this stuff seems so miraculous, yet on the other hand, the basic teachings of Islam don't make sense at all.
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Reply #95 - January 13, 2013, 09:53 PM

Have you read through the quran?
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Reply #96 - January 13, 2013, 10:09 PM

You really need to brush up on your mathematics if you think these miracles are anything more than coincidence. statistics can show anything. Well this is what is happening. Any of these DO NOT explain that the cause of these is GOD. These are baseless assertions.
The reason you are confused is because you starting from the preconcieved notion that these are miracles from god. Let go of these and then look at it from a neutral position. You still need to establish and show a connection that these are actually from God, and their occurance is not proof of connection.
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Reply #97 - January 13, 2013, 10:29 PM

Yeah, e-raja, you are right. There does need to be a connection that should prove that it is from God. However, what I don't understand is how we would disprove that it is not from God? And also, how would the proof that it is from God look like?

And yes, happy murtad, I have read through most of it. Nothing in it makes sense to me, as it wouldn't to any rational and reasonable person. However, stuff like this, like I mentioned before, makes me seem to doubt otherwise. Again, I am sorry for annoying you people in a consistent manner, but it is troubling, so your patience would be really appreciating.
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Reply #98 - January 14, 2013, 02:16 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on January 13, 2013, 09:53 PM
Have you read through the quran?

^this (one of the most consistent common elements in ex-muslim biographies reading the wise [lol] book)

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Reply #99 - January 14, 2013, 03:05 AM

Quote from: kutta on January 13, 2013, 10:29 PM
Yeah, e-raja, you are right. There does need to be a connection that should prove that it is from God. However, what I don't understand is how we would disprove that it is not from God? And also, how would the proof that it is from God look like?

Our Job is not to disprove, if the claim has not been proven. The burden of proof rests on the claim makers in this case those who say this is a miracle and from God.

We can only guess as to what the proof/evidence of the connection with God would look like. And what a lot of people do not notice is that the more a claim resembles the realm of fiction the more difficult it is to imagine what kind of evidence/proof is required to prove it. Because the proponents of these miracles make these claims it is their duty to provide independent, verifiable, objective and falsifiable evidence as these are objective claims.

Also if you wanted to provide atleast some contention, you could ask the claim makers how do they know it was God who sent these miracles. What if it is Satan, Santa, Zues, Thor, Kali etc or anything your mind can come up with who sent these to lead muslim in to thinking their scripture is true when it is far from it. They will then have to disprove that all other possible explanation which have just as much 'evidence' do not exist, to then say God did it and let me tell you that is quite a task.
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Reply #100 - January 14, 2013, 06:00 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on January 13, 2013, 09:30 PM
Again, there is nothing miraculous about this. Given enough time and determination, one can find a thousand such "miracles" in any ancient text. If years don't work, try dates. If the dates don't work, try the times. If the times don't work, switch up the timezones. Eventually, you'll find your irrefutable miracles. If this is the best God can do to prove his case, he must not care too much whether or not we believe in him.

This is exactly how religions begin/work; finding meaning in meaningless coincidences.

"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people Jeremy" - Superhans
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Reply #101 - February 07, 2013, 04:41 PM

alex, you actually believe in that 19 miracle crap? even if you dont believe god did it, you actually believe mohammed made that?
its all pure arbitrariness xD come on man, theres a similar one like that in the bible with a different number : 17
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Reply #102 - February 09, 2013, 02:58 PM

It doesn't mean anything if you have non-Muslims using Math to make technology and inventions out of thin air, while Muslims are playing some silly number game in the Quran, like Sudoku trying to see if anyone will notice cryptic matches up in a specific time period for a vague 'metaphorical thing'.

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Reply #103 - February 10, 2013, 12:51 AM

Quote from: kutta on February 07, 2013, 04:41 PM
alex, you actually believe in that 19 miracle crap? even if you dont believe god did it, you actually believe mohammed made that?
its all pure arbitrariness xD come on man, theres a similar one like that in the bible with a different number : 17

It's not crap. It's there, I saw it.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Reply #104 - February 10, 2013, 06:42 AM

yeah i saw another miracle of 11 and 7 in the Qur'aan some days ago too.
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Reply #105 - February 11, 2013, 12:30 AM

Quote from: kutta on February 10, 2013, 06:42 AM
yeah i saw another miracle of 11 and 7 in the Qur'aan some days ago too.

Dude that was just a 7/11 gas station in your rearview mirror.
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Reply #106 - February 11, 2013, 12:40 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on February 11, 2013, 12:30 AM
Dude that was just a 7/11 gas station in your rearview mirror.

LMAOOOOO, the 7/11 store just recently shut down in my neighbourhood by the way ;( No more halal hot dogs!!

But wait
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Reply #107 - February 11, 2013, 12:41 AM

Quote from: kutta on February 10, 2013, 06:42 AM
yeah i saw another miracle of 11 and 7 in the Qur'aan some days ago too.

Had you seen it, you'd believe it, thus, you saw nothing. I believe because I've seen it.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Reply #108 - February 11, 2013, 12:46 AM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on February 11, 2013, 12:41 AM
Had you seen it, you'd believe it, thus, you saw nothing. I believe because I've seen it.

I'm sorry, but this picture is enough evidence for me. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8m29ZLX5ag/Slji5emi4II/AAAAAAAADdI/DvfjFt-5hZY/s400/7-11+SIGN+JPG.jpg

And come on Alex, I know you're sad that 7 and 11 add up to 18 instead of 19. Damn, it just fell short :(
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Reply #109 - February 11, 2013, 12:56 AM

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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