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 Topic: How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?

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  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #90 - February 03, 2013, 04:46 AM
    I understand asbie's point that some ex muslims' lives are threatened in the west as well but I think I can see al Alethia's point. 

    Even if you have a family who will kill you if they find out ur an apostate all you have to do is wait till u become financially independent and then you can run away and if need be have the police place a restraining order on ur family. 

    Even the worst of us in Europe and North America have it alot better than the most lucky ex muslims in the Islamic world.

    This is why once we become independent we come out and declare ourselves as atheists.  We should also set up an ex muslims organization in every country or if a separate organization is not possible than at least an ex muslim wing of an already existing secular atheist organization.

    As ex muslims if we want to fight fundamentalist muslims effectively we need to provide a support group for each other.  We should also all start making YouTube vids or blogs criticizing Islam. 

    If safety is a concern than set up a home security system, attend self defense classes and become a gun owner if need be. 

    The religious bigots and theocrats need to be fought and confronted where ever they arise.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #91 - February 03, 2013, 07:03 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on February 03, 2013, 02:33 AM
    1. You don't need too many people, one is often enough. 2. Honour killings do happen in the West. 3. So, asbie is right.


    1. Honour killings are usually a file affair, with multiple family members deciding that a daughter, sister, etc must go and planning her murder, it's usually not just one individual behind the whole thing. 

    2. Honour killings are VERY rare in the West, my country, for instance, has never had one and I don't know anyone in my community who'd be a threat to me. It's also not that difficult to escape your crazy family in the West and help is usually available if you seek it. 

    3. So, asbie is not right. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #92 - February 03, 2013, 07:39 AM
    What does this have to do with pussy chopping? Huh?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #93 - February 03, 2013, 07:41 AM
    …they can lead to honour killings.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #94 - February 03, 2013, 08:02 AM
    Ah. cool2
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #95 - February 03, 2013, 08:15 AM
     yes
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #96 - February 03, 2013, 02:41 PM
    Unless you're in the West.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #97 - February 03, 2013, 08:41 PM
    Being honor killed isn't the only way that one's safety can be threatened. Nor does living in the West give you some sort of magic shield protecting you from these threats.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #98 - February 03, 2013, 09:41 PM
    ^Who said anything about a "magic shield"? Its a lot easier to escape a potentially homicidal family in the West than it is in dar-al-Islam, that is an indisputable fact. You have MANY avenues open to you in pretty much any Western country, you have the law on your side, you have the local culture on your side, most of the time you're not in any real physical danger for coming out as an apostate. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #99 - February 04, 2013, 12:48 AM
    It's true that everyone is on your side in the West, but only if you're fast/smart enough to act. I've seen attacks but not murders. The rest get tricked into going overseas and have their passports ripped up by their parents.

    What was the topic again? Tongue
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #100 - February 04, 2013, 10:45 PM
    Over here in Canada we've have a few honour killings. At one point over the span of like a month or two there were a few of them.

    In my opinion people who do honour killings might as well be whacked. They're just going to sit in jail for 25 years or whatever and cost money and then come out and be entirely willing to do it again.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #101 - February 21, 2014, 09:11 PM
    On this issue of 'religiously encouraged' circumcision and after the recent bans on 'ritual slaughter' of animals in Denmark and Poland, the Jews and Muslims in these countries and Europe see a problem for them looming on the horizon in the form of what they see (and they may well be right) as an inevitable 'next logical step' to ban male infantile genital mutilation ...er I mean circumcision.

    They are currently banding together to decry their loss of 'right' to continue the non-consensual practice. (surely your religious 'right' to swing your scalpel ends at the tip of my penis?).

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/20/the-new-law-in-denmark-that-has-both-jews-and-muslims-united-against-it/

    Well I understand that circumcision is not ordained in the quran anyway, but in case you get into a religious debate with a 'pro-cutter' you may wish to throw the following Islamic anti-circumcision website back in his face.

    http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/circumcision.html

    They argue from the quran and medical science that male circumcision is actually against Islam, and they provide some cogent non-religious arguments against circumcision, and they can back it up with verses from the quran.

    So next time a believer says the "our religion says we must circumcise" you now have some ammo to fire back.

    Oh and for your information. I have been circumcised, as an adult, by my own consent, and with no coercion or religious bollocks telling me to do it, and I can say that it DOES indeed reduce sensitivity. The best way to demonstrate this to those who have been circumcised from babyhood and know no different, is to stroke the back of your hand and then stroke the palm of your hand, that is the difference in sensation between post and pre circumcision on the penile glans.

    So if any of you are prospective parents and thinking of circumcising just to keep the family happy, or follow tradition, think of your baby boy and ask yourself if you want to permanently de-sensitise him without his consent. It may be something he may hold against you one day.

    I wonder if within this generation's time, we will see the first legal action by male children against their parents for 'religiously motivated mutilation' as we may see with the FGM cases?
     
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #102 - February 22, 2014, 06:48 PM
    Um my Biology book taught that cutting off the foreskin of male genitalia prevents diseases. In countries like India dominated by Hinduism a man asked solutions for his erectile problems to a doctor. One of the advices the doctor gave him was that he should circumcise. Any thoughts on this?
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #103 - February 22, 2014, 07:14 PM
    I don't think the marginal reduction in the risk of certain STDs justifies infant circumcision. Kids aren't interested in sex until puberty, and at that time they themselves can make the decision to get circumcised, if they think so choose. Making that irreversible and not risk-free decision for your child is immoral.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #104 - February 22, 2014, 07:27 PM
    "Marginal" is completely correct.

    I have heard of a couple pushes to investigate the HIV claim more thoroughly, but I just did a quick search and couldn't really find any long-term compelling studies, although there are currently a few recruiting at the moment. General consensus seems to be that, although there is a casual relationship between circumcision and a lower risk of, say, HIV, far more work needs to be done to find out to what extent, to find the limitations, and to determine the exact nuances and target audiences where this would even be recommended as a medical benefit.

    There are definitely true advantages, like the decreased risk of urinary tract infections in men (less skin, less junk to clean in the proximity of the urethral opening=fewer opportunities for infection), and a reduced risk of penile cancer (whenever you remove body tissues, you typically decrease the chance of getting that type of cancer), but again, when is it worth it? And who would be most at need of it? I've seen nothing compelling enough to provide a good answer.

    But we all know the disadvantages, and it is of such a personal nature that I'd rather see the individual be in charge of whether or not he has this surgery.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #105 - February 22, 2014, 07:36 PM
    Some branches of my family have a history of health issues, not STDs, in the uncircumcised males. They have to circumcise in their forties, in those cases. Some of my family have opted to spare their children this complication, and do it when the boys are newborn, to save on the pain and expense so much later in life.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #106 - February 23, 2014, 12:03 AM
    I think a lot of the stories about circumcision preventing STDs is being challenged. I certainly dont' see any real benefits. And haven't some tests shown the foreskin actually provides some protection?

    Either way, I don't want someone cutting away part of my penis. Plus I can't imagine how much less feeling there would be.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #107 - February 24, 2014, 08:08 PM
    Quote from: lua on February 22, 2014, 07:27 PM
    "Marginal" is completely correct.

    I have heard of a couple pushes to investigate the HIV claim more thoroughly, but I just did a quick search and couldn't really find any long-term compelling studies, although there are currently a few recruiting at the moment. General consensus seems to be that, although there is a casual relationship between circumcision and a lower risk of, say, HIV, far more work needs to be done to find out to what extent, to find the limitations, and to determine the exact nuances and target audiences where this would even be recommended as a medical benefit.

    There are definitely true advantages, like the decreased risk of urinary tract infections in men (less skin, less junk to clean in the proximity of the urethral opening=fewer opportunities for infection), and a reduced risk of penile cancer (whenever you remove body tissues, you typically decrease the chance of getting that type of cancer), but again, when is it worth it? And who would be most at need of it? I've seen nothing compelling enough to provide a good answer.

    But we all know the disadvantages, and it is of such a personal nature that I'd rather see the individual be in charge of whether or not he has this surgery.


    Some of these STD claims and issues are addressed in the link I posted above.
    http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/circumcision.html

    Now I have not looked into these counter-claims against circumcision, perhaps someone on the site could find some source material that supports or refutes the claims made?
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #108 - February 24, 2014, 08:11 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 23, 2014, 12:03 AM

    Either way, I don't want someone cutting away part of my penis. Plus I can't imagine how much less feeling there would be.


    I have been circumcised as an adult and can tell you there IS a loss of sensation.

    "The best way to demonstrate this to those who have been circumcised from babyhood and know no different, is to stroke the back of your hand and then stroke the palm of your hand, that is the difference in sensation between post and pre circumcision on the penile glans"
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #109 - February 24, 2014, 08:23 PM
    Quote from: three on February 22, 2014, 07:36 PM
    Some branches of my family have a history of health issues, not STDs, in the uncircumcised males. They have to circumcise in their forties, in those cases. Some of my family have opted to spare their children this complication, and do it when the boys are newborn, to save on the pain and expense so much later in life.


    In that case, then you may have a good medical reason to circumcise, and any new law should take this into account. It may be that populations or ethnicities in that region do actually have an issue with overtight foreskins that are at risk of splitting when sexual maturity rears its head later in life, but this may not apply in every case, and should be considered by doctors on a case-by-case basis.

    It seems to me that the best way may be to wait until the child is at the age of consent or medical necessity before unnecessarily irreversibly reducing sensation.

    Also this may have implications for non-Muslim non-Jewish American males who, from what I understand, are routinely circumcised as babies, but that will be a matter for the Americans. One website claims that this practice began "as a "cure" for masturbation late in the 19th century in England", which would make sense in the context of the era, and it may well be carried out in Islamic/Jewish culture for the same reasons.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #110 - February 24, 2014, 08:35 PM
    Thanks for the link Adey5. It is very informative Afro.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #111 - February 24, 2014, 08:39 PM
    The idea that circumcision prevents STDs is seriously dangerous.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #112 - February 24, 2014, 08:42 PM
    This may be a starting point for resources on the issue.

    http://www.circumstitions.com/index.html
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #113 - February 24, 2014, 08:44 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on February 24, 2014, 08:39 PM
    The idea that circumcision prevents STDs is seriously dangerous.


    Yes you are right, it may lead to a false sense of security and increase unprotected sex whereby males may think "I am circumcised so am immune from AIDS STDs etc"
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #114 - February 24, 2014, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: Rubaya on February 24, 2014, 08:35 PM
    Thanks for the link Adey5. It is very informative Afro.


    Cool, no worries, let us know if you find anything compelling either way.  or perhaps http://www.circumstitions.com/index.html may be of help.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #115 - February 24, 2014, 08:53 PM
    Man sues for loss of foreskin!

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=127183

    One of the medical practitioners in this article is called Dr Spock lol.

    On a similarly humourous note the article states regarding the lawsuit "Briefs are due by the end of March...."

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #116 - February 24, 2014, 08:58 PM
    Regarding any claims of possible benefits of circumcision, do we now by default remove all appendices at childhood or do we perform double mastectomies on pubescent females just to prevent breast cancer?

    This is where the 'circumcision has benefits' arguments could (logically) lead, but I don't want to get into a slippery-slope fallacy.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #117 - February 24, 2014, 09:15 PM
    "Scientists Discover 'Natural Barrier' to HIV"

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/05/AR2007030500357.html

    This study seems to imply that Langherhans Cells, present in mucous membranes including the mouth, vagina and foreskin, may be a barrier to HIV, but the research is not entirely conclusive. Any Doctors here that can verify this?
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #118 - February 25, 2014, 11:40 PM
    Quote from: Adey5 on February 24, 2014, 08:23 PM
    In that case, then you may have a good medical reason to circumcise, and any new law should take this into account. It may be that populations or ethnicities in that region do actually have an issue with overtight foreskins that are at risk of splitting when sexual maturity rears its head later in life, but this may not apply in every case, and should be considered by doctors on a case-by-case basis.

    It seems to me that the best way may be to wait until the child is at the age of consent or medical necessity before unnecessarily irreversibly reducing sensation.

    Also this may have implications for non-Muslim non-Jewish American males who, from what I understand, are routinely circumcised as babies, but that will be a matter for the Americans. One website claims that this practice began "as a "cure" for masturbation late in the 19th century in England", which would make sense in the context of the era, and it may well be carried out in Islamic/Jewish culture for the same reasons.


    The point is though that the foreskin is a little bit like the hymen, when the penis doe eventually start to become erect at times it is quite normal for it to hurt a bit. It needs slow work to overcome and also washing with warm water only (no soap) to keep the pH there just right for the good bacteria to stay dominant.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #119 - February 25, 2014, 11:47 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on February 25, 2014, 11:40 PM
    The point is though that the foreskin is a little bit like the hymen, when the penis doe eventually start to become erect at times it is quite normal for it to hurt a bit. It needs slow work to overcome and also washing with warm water only (no soap) to keep the pH there just right for the good bacteria to stay dominant.


    Like the hymen? Out of curiosity, what do you mean?
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