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 Topic: I shocked my family on Sunday

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  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     OP - February 11, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Please excuse my grammar, English is not my language.

    So my mother's friend came over this Saturday with her daughter for an afternoon coffee. I know that my mother wants me to marry her friend's daughter, but she's never said anything, I have this intuition about it. To be honest with you she has a very sexy face, not beautiful but sexy. She is half Syrian half Moroccan, greenish eyes. The thing is, it would never work, her being a Muslim and me an atheist.

    So yesterday my uncles and aunts and cousins all met at my aunt's house. There is no sexual segregation in our family and only 2 out of 4 my aunties wear hijab. Se they started talking about marriage and my mother made the error of mentioning this girl's name and saying that we would make a nice couple and that she was a very beautiful girl who feared God etc...

    My mother asked me what I thought of her, I said I didn't know her at all, and I asked what she meant with beautiful? Her clothes, her face? Then she told me to admit that she was beautiful. I said I thought it was haram for a man to look at a girl in that way. Then I said that if by beauty she meant her face and only her face then yes she is quite good looking and I would give her a 8/10, if by beauty she meant her clothes I give her 2/10. But that is not right I said, the beauty that interest me isn't based on her face or clothes alone. In order to evaluate her beauty I would have to see her without her clothes. Everyone was shocked, "you no hashouma?" I said what? You asked me whether she was beautiful or not, beauty is something to do with the body, therefore I need to see the body in order to determine whether she is beautiful or not. Then I used an analogy; imagine someone is going to sell you a car, but the car is covered and the only parts revealed are the two front wheels and the grill, would you be able to tell whether the car is beautiful or not? Then I crossed the line. I said before you make the purchase you would have to check the car from inside out and at least test drive it.

    They where all shocked and outraged from what I said and quickly changed subject. I don't think they will bring up this subject ever again in my presence.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #1 - February 11, 2013, 10:08 PM
     Cheesy Novel tactic, but effective.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #2 - February 11, 2013, 10:52 PM
     Cheesy
    I have my own soul. My own spark of divine fire.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #3 - February 11, 2013, 11:21 PM
     Cheesy
    That was hilarious, hopefully they will get the point.
    Women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness.
    ―Erica Jong
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #4 - February 11, 2013, 11:34 PM
    well played  Cheesy.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #5 - February 12, 2013, 01:15 AM
    You win at life.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #6 - February 12, 2013, 01:43 AM
     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #7 - February 12, 2013, 11:25 AM
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #8 - August 25, 2013, 05:25 PM
     clap
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #9 - August 26, 2013, 12:55 AM
     Wink  naughty boy hahahaha
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #10 - August 26, 2013, 04:41 AM
    Let's not be too hasty.

    You only win when you get to exercise such decisions with your own autonomy. Hate to spoil the celebrations, but the war is not over.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #11 - August 26, 2013, 10:03 AM
    Whilst I applaud the fact that you had the courage to express your feelings would not a simple 'I'm sorry, I don't think I'm prepared suffice?'

    What you did was utterly objectify and demean a girl in abstentia. Someone who was most probably as innocent as you in this situation and who may have had a liking to you.

    Could you not have said 'okay fine let me talk to the girl' and then reveal your true feelings to her rather than humilliate her in front of the family.

    Your actions are nothing to applaud my friend, they are immature and uncalled for.

    Quote
    Then I used an analogy; imagine someone is going to sell you a car, but the car is covered and the only parts revealed are the two front wheels and the grill, would you be able to tell whether the car is beautiful or not? Then I crossed the line. I said before you make the purchase you would have to check the car from inside out and at least test drive it.


    To all those who thumbed up and applauded him, think about the girl in the situation and the objectification. It is sickening. Much like how we condemn any religious fanatic making a similar statement.

    I'm sorry, for the sake of making friends or gaining popularity, I'm not going to approve of such conduct.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #12 - August 30, 2013, 11:29 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 26, 2013, 10:03 AM
    Whilst I applaud the fact that you had the courage to express your feelings would not a simple 'I'm sorry, I don't think I'm prepared suffice?'

    What you did was utterly objectify and demean a girl in abstentia. Someone who was most probably as innocent as you in this situation and who may have had a liking to you.

    Could you not have said 'okay fine let me talk to the girl' and then reveal your true feelings to her rather than humilliate her in front of the family.

    Your actions are nothing to applaud my friend, they are immature and uncalled for.

    To all those who thumbed up and applauded him, think about the girl in the situation and the objectification. It is sickening. Much like how we condemn any religious fanatic making a similar statement.

    I'm sorry, for the sake of making friends or gaining popularity, I'm not going to approve of such conduct.


    In what way did I objectify or demean the girl? I never insulted her. All I did was express my opinions about beauty, not this girl in particular. I wasn't criticising the girl, I wasn't even referring to her, I was referring to female beauty in general, that it should not be hidden underneath layers of cloth. How can you see beauty if it is covered by cloths? Muslims idea of beauty is actually sexual attraction.  When they see a beautiful girl, what they really see is an ass, boobs and a vagina. They don't understand beauty. If I covered a painting with a cloth and asked you to rate its beauty, would you be able to? If this painting had life and consciousness and feelings, would it be fair to force it to cover itself? I used a car for analogy, I could have used the painting instead.

    Again, I fail to see in what way I am comparable to a religious fanatic. I used an analogy based on my life's experience. I like to explore and know the person, internally and externally, before I decide to spend the rest of my life with her.

    I could be at fault here, but I fail to see how. Please tell me what I did wrong.

    Thanks.

  • Re: I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #13 - August 30, 2013, 12:09 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 26, 2013, 10:03 AM
    What you did was utterly objectify and demean a girl in abstentia. Someone who was most probably as innocent as you in this situation and who may have had a liking to you.

    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 11:29 AM
    They don't understand beauty. If I covered a painting with a cloth and asked you to rate its beauty, would you be able to? If this painting had life and consciousness and feelings, would it be fair to force it to cover itself? I used a car for analogy, I could have used the painting instead.


    You're comparing women to cars and paintings. Although I understand it was just an analogy, I think it's a troublesome analogy because people are not inanimate objects like cars and paintings. They are people.

    Also, you say that you weren't even talking about the girl in question, that you were just making your general opinion of "beauty" known. However, since the topic of conversation was this particular girl, and this particular girl is what sparked your comments, you can't quite separate the two in this context, hence why it was disrespectful to her in particular. And I wouldn't blame your family, or others, for construing it that way--ie, that you were talking about this girl in particular. If the topic had come up randomly, and they'd asked you out of the blue "what's your opinion on beauty?" that would have been different. But since it was an extension of a discussion about that particular girl, the things you say are inextricably linked to that particular girl.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're a bad person or the worst human being alive or anything based on this single incident you happened to post about. I just don't agree with the way you behaved or the way you handled the situation. That and I think it's unfortunate you feel the only way to evaluate beauty is sans clothing.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #14 - August 30, 2013, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 11:29 AM
    Muslims idea of beauty is actually sexual attraction.  When they see a beautiful girl, what they really see is an ass, boobs and a vagina. They don't understand beauty.


    Quick visit - but this is so wrong on so many levels - just for now - which world has boob jobs/butt lifts and labiaplasty leading to designer vaginas?
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #15 - August 30, 2013, 12:18 PM
    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 11:29 AM
    Muslims idea of beauty is actually sexual attraction

    In what way did I objectify or demean the girl? ......

    ..............When they see a beautiful girl, what they really see is an ass, boobs and a vagina. ...................

    .......... I could be at fault here,..... but I fail to see how. Please tell me what I did wrong..........

    Thanks.  

     hello selltek .. how are you doing..  well if you can not find faults in your post no one can find it.,  but do you think that you are at fault there??


     Yes... yes..    Vagina.....  that defines the beauty of  a person ...  

    How about eyes, face, looks .. the way she talks/responds  and the way she acts?

    do they also add to the beauty? or is it just Vagina??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #16 - August 30, 2013, 01:51 PM
    Quote from: Iceman on August 30, 2013, 12:09 PM
    You're comparing women to cars and paintings. Although I understand it was just an analogy, I think it's a troublesome analogy because people are not inanimate objects like cars and paintings. They are people.

    Also, you say that you weren't even talking about the girl in question, that you were just making your general opinion of "beauty" known. However, since the topic of conversation was this particular girl, and this particular girl is what sparked your comments, you can't quite separate the two in this context, hence why it was disrespectful to her in particular. And I wouldn't blame your family, or others, for construing it that way--ie, that you were talking about this girl in particular. If the topic had come up randomly, and they'd asked you out of the blue "what's your opinion on beauty?" that would have been different. But since it was an extension of a discussion about that particular girl, the things you say are inextricably linked to that particular girl.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're a bad person or the worst human being alive or anything based on this single incident you happened to post about. I just don't agree with the way you behaved or the way you handled the situation. That and I think it's unfortunate you feel the only way to evaluate beauty is sans clothing.


    I agree with some of your points. But the thing is, Islam has rendered this particular girl into an object. They cover her, tell her when, where and with whom to go out, whom to marry. She is not in control of her life, and I don't blame her. My intention with the analogy was to make them realise that they are the ones objectifying and demeaning women. The way they tried to sell me the girl, the way they cover her beauty. I thought the analogy would make them see this.

    Is it really my fault for pointing out things the way I see them?

    Also, I don't evaluate beauty based on the naked body. The problem is that with a hijabi Muslim girl this is something that you can only evaluate after marriage.  I stated that I like to evaluate a girl from the inside out. With a Muslim girl you can only see the inside.

    How would you have handled the situation?
  • Re: I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #17 - August 30, 2013, 02:11 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 30, 2013, 12:18 PM
    hello selltek .. how are you doing..  well if you can not find faults in your post no one can find it.,  but do you think that you are at fault there??


     Yes... yes..    Vagina.....  that defines the beauty of  a person ...  

    How about eyes, face, looks .. the way she talks/responds  and the way she acts?

    do they also add to the beauty? or is it just Vagina??


    That is what I believe Muslims mean when they say "women must hide their beauty",  beauty in this case is the ass, boobs and vagina. The face can be revealed,  maybe because this is not beauty, according to them?

    I think that beauty is a combination of many things about a person, internal and external. This depends on the persons subjective standards and like.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #18 - August 30, 2013, 03:16 PM
    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 02:11 PM
    That is what I believe Muslims mean when they say "women must hide their beauty",

    you can believe anything you want., that freedom you must have it  but you can not  force your belief on others and say " I beleive,  THAT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE" So I behave like that. .  

    Anyways,  how do you know that beauty in Islam means Vagina etc..etc..?  did you read that in any "Islamic scriptures"?

    Quote
    beauty in this case is the ass, boobs and vagina. The face can be revealed,  maybe because this is not beauty, according to them?

     Well face covering in Islam is a different case  but you say that in the case of Muslim folks "  beauty in this case is the ass, boobs and vagina." ., How about other religious folks do they mean something?  Every one says "dress modestly "

    Quote
    I think that beauty is a combination of many things about a person, internal and external. This depends on the persons subjective standards and like.

    well that is a good thinking and I agree with you there.. but going back to your opening post
    Quote from: selltek on February 11, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Please excuse .......my language.

    So my mother's friend came over this Saturday with her daughter for an afternoon coffee.  

    So she was there with her mother and you said

    Quote
    ......................... I said, the beauty that interest me isn't based on her face or clothes alone. In order to evaluate her beauty I would have to see her without her clothes.......

     and you said that in front her whole family ..her uncles..aunts..whatever ., Question is., is it a right thing to do?

    You had guts to say "that in order evaluate her beauty you want see her naked" but you didn't had guts to say " I am sorry marriage  may not work as I am not a really a believer  where as she believes in allah doll voodoo doll whatever.. "

    don't you think you were  very timid  and you owe an apology to her?  It is ok to insult your folks., but do you have the right to insult her?  Off course some of us will excuse your language..

    with best wishes.
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #19 - August 30, 2013, 04:16 PM
    Yeezevee, the girl came on a Saturday, with her mother.

    I meat my family on Sunday, this is when they asked me about the girl.

    Regarding by beliefs/opinions,  I believe them in varying degrees,  based on experience, etc.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #20 - August 30, 2013, 04:23 PM
    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 04:16 PM
    ]Yeezevee, the girl came on a Saturday, with her mother.  I meat my family on Sunday, this is when they asked me about the girl.   

    Oh!  ok..ok..... I misunderstood your post selltek., I am sorry about that.,

     I was only worried that you might have been talking about meat in presence of her relatives  instead of meeting the girl and talking to her personally.

    I know NO atheist can be that dumb. Atheist god will not allow atheist to say that... lol.. but how do you know that she   believes in allah doll and doesn't like atheists?  may be she also is a closet atheist..  Now I agree with you,  you have the right to educate and even heckle your folks a bit..  I do that all the time.. lol.. Now no one believes me and no one knows  what I believe  Cheesy

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #21 - August 30, 2013, 06:46 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 30, 2013, 04:23 PM
    Oh!  ok..ok..... I misunderstood your post selltek., I am sorry about that.,

     I was only worried that you might have been talking about meat in presence of her relatives  instead of meeting the girl and talking to her personally.

    I know NO atheist can be that dumb. Atheist god will not allow atheist to say that... lol.. but how do you know that she   believes in allah doll and doesn't like atheists?  may be she also is a closet atheist..  Now I agree with you,  you have the right to educate and even heckle your folks a bit..  I do that all the time.. lol.. Now no one believes me and no one knows  what I believe  Cheesy

     


    I  was just heckling them as you say. I wanted to show them how fuked up their Islamic culture is in regards to women.

    If I marry now I would have to do the whole Islamic wedding,  and if I have a kid I would have to circumcise him, etc. I would do this for my parents.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #22 - August 30, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Selltek...I am not one to advocate violence but on this occasion I would gladly join the hypocrisy brigade and sincerely hope you receive a well deserved slap from that young girl whom you unjustly demeaned.

    That you would try to excuse your actions with such pitiful appeal to 'I was just talking about beauty' or 'well, they objectified her too' reveals your immaturity.

    She is the lucky one.

     penguins
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #23 - August 31, 2013, 01:17 AM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on August 30, 2013, 12:16 PM
    Quick visit - but this is so wrong on so many levels - just for now - which world has boob jobs/butt lifts and labiaplasty leading to designer vaginas?


    Any muslims reading, please note that the majority of CEMB members on this site are a fair lot.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #24 - August 31, 2013, 01:39 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 30, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Selltek...I am not one to advocate violence but on this occasion I would gladly join the hypocrisy brigade and sincerely hope you receive a well deserved slap from that young girl whom you unjustly demeaned.

    That you would try to excuse your actions with such pitiful appeal to 'I was just talking about beauty' or 'well, they objectified her too' reveals your immaturity.

    She is the lucky one.

     penguins


    I didn't objectify or demean her. I merely pointed out the fact that it is Islam that does that to women. The way I did this was by using an analogy that would reflect the way women are treated in Islam.

    You sound like a feminist on dat der phaggy time.
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #25 - August 31, 2013, 02:39 AM
    What's wrong with feminism?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #26 - August 31, 2013, 10:42 AM
    Quote from: selltek on August 31, 2013, 01:39 AM
    I didn't objectify or demean her. I merely pointed out the fact that it is Islam that does that to women. The way I did this was by using an analogy that would reflect the way women are treated in Islam.

    You sound like a feminist on dat der phaggy time.


    Bill O'reilly logic.

    'I didn't call him nigge* because I think he's a nigg*r. I called him a ni*ger just to show that using the word n*gger is a bad thing!'

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #27 - August 31, 2013, 11:35 AM
    I would point out for the sake of balance he said it to his own family (in his eyes) to make a point not in front of the girl or her family. Not to take sides but just to get it out there.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #28 - August 31, 2013, 02:39 PM
    Quod...he's not a child. If he wanted to be mature he could've mentioned it to his family afterwards or even before if it so concerned him. He said it in front of the girls family and in such a disrespectful manner. The point he made was stupid, the point he wanted to make is another topic in itself.

    He mentioned that his mother 'never said anything' He just intuited it. There was no force.

    And in the midst of a polite conversation the mother asks what he thinks about them as a couple. At which point he babbles on about testing a car.

    He then proceeds to post this online as if he were a hero and seeks adulation otherwise what is the point of this?

    This kind of thing is routine in Asian families. Women get together and they talk. And the conversations tends to turn to marriage (amongst other things) because most people are obsessed with the idea of marriage. There's no harm in it and it can be fun if there's no coercion. Sure enough, you may be asked about marriage or a potential partner. How you react reveals a lot about your character. But to demean and objectify an innocent party like this and advertise on here as if to say that 'I am just highlighting how they objectify women' is stupid.

    He maybe a nice chap at other times. But on this issue, no.  fails.

    I feel as though I have wasted enough time on this nonsense so leave it there.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • I shocked my family on Sunday
     Reply #29 - August 31, 2013, 02:50 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 31, 2013, 02:39 PM
    Quod...he's not a child. If he wanted to be mature he could've mentioned it to his family afterwards or even before if it so concerned him. He said it in front of the girls family and in such a disrespectful manner.............................


    No..no you are wrong there Jedi  and selltek explained that here when I said similar words
    Quote from: selltek on August 30, 2013, 04:16 PM
    Yeezevee, the girl came on a Saturday, with her mother.

    I meat my family on Sunday, this is when they asked me about the girl.

    ..................

    It is just a misunderstanding there., Selltek was heckling his own family members and that he did  it  in absence of that young lady and her family members. Off course I agree that  there are better ways of explaining the family members how stupid are  these religious rules and rituals  are, without talking about vagina and what not..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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