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 Topic: Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with

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  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     OP - March 01, 2013, 03:45 AM

    Islam has totally destroyed Somalia in every possible way. It has raped my people of its language, heritage and culture. A while back i travelled back home and it was shocking to see women now wearing burka; they looked like ghosts imported from saudi arabia,they hardly wore their traditional colourful dresses. Before islam, we had our own ways of doing things, we had our own gods who were also similar to the egyptian gods,like a god called 'ra' who was our sun god.

    Our women occupied special position in the society, some commanded armies that invaded abbyssinia all the way to kordofan in the sudan.

    Our obsession to fit in the  islamic arab world has actually been our own demise, even those  nations that we so idolised in the middle east  didnt even come to our rescue when we had drought and civil war, and somali children were dying like ants, not a penny was donated  to somalia from the  rich islamic arab world. We were getting donations and support from  christian kaffir governments whom we so hated and despised but in reality  they had more compassion that our  muslims brothers.

     Now i look back, i know who the real enemy is, and the joke was really on us.  The truth of the matter is that we were never muslims to begin with. So Somalia if your listening to me - abondon this foreign religion and send it back to where you got it!!! 
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #1 - March 01, 2013, 03:51 AM

    Yup sounds about right...

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #2 - March 01, 2013, 08:55 AM

    Quote
    Of all the desiccated, bitter, cruel, sun beaten wildernesses which starve and thirst beyond the edges of Africa’s luscious jungled centre, there cannot be one more Christless than the one which begins at the northern foot of Mount Kenya and stretches to the foothills of Abyssinia, and from there to the dried-out glittering tip of Cape Gardafui where the hot karif winds blow in from where the long sharks race under the thin blue skin of the ocean.  You can never think of those wildernesses without thinking of daggers and spears, rolling fierce eyes under mops of dusty black crinkly hair, of mad stubborn camels, rocks too hot to touch, and blood feuds whose origins cannot be remembered, only honoured in the stabbing.  But of all the races of Africa there cannot be one better to live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the vainest, the most merciless, the friendliest; the Somalis. 
     
     I knew an Italian priest who had spent over thirty years among the Somalis, and he made two converts, and it amazed me that he got even those two.  The Prophet has no more fervent, and ignorant followers, but it is not their fault they are ignorant.  Their natural intelligence is second to none and when the education factories start work among them they should surprise Africa, and themselves.

    "We are refugees.  We are like the sufriye that people make use of to cook on the fire.  When you use it the first time, it gets burned badly.  But later it develops a thick layer of charcoal and cooks only slowly.  Our hearts are like that.  We have experienced so many things that we are now very strong.  We have hardened with life ."
     
     



      Gerald Hanley Warriors – Life and death among the Somalis Eland London 2004 isbn 0 907 871 83 6
      Traditional Nomads Cindy Horst PHD Project Amsterdam Research Institute for Global Issues and Development Studies C.Horst@inter.NL.net


    I thought all Somalis could track back their ancestry several hundred years - all Islamic.

    Isn't the problem more that Islam is more ingrained than Anglicanism is for the British?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #3 - March 01, 2013, 09:35 AM

    [i]But of all the races of Africa there cannot be one better to live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the vainest, the most merciless, the friendliest; the Somali

    We are still as proud as ever and thats good,but are we  smart enough to know that we really don't need this imported religion called islam? that been somali alone is enough? our own culture with its clan complexity is really more than we can handle and once islam is added into this complexity it really then becomes toxic?

    are we brave enough to kick islam out? i think we are.. and we should send islam back to arabia.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #4 - March 01, 2013, 09:35 AM

    Like I said to another Somali on here once, Somalis are so cynical its amazing how we converted to Islam.    

    It sickens me when I see young girls of 6-10 years old having hijabs.   What was that old saying "How are we (Somalis) recognized?, Hardy herdsmen, and maidens with long braided hair, is our signature"   Now all you see is Cousin It wanna bes walking around a hot fugging mess if you ask me.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #5 - March 01, 2013, 09:46 AM

    Quote
    We are still as proud as ever and thats good,but are we  smart enough to know that we really don't need this imported religion called islam? that been somali alone is enough? our own culture with its clan complexity is really more than we can handle and once islam is added into this complexity it really then becomes toxic?

    are we brave enough to kick islam out? i think we are.. and we should send islam back to arabia.


    How widely is Islam understood as an imperialist foreign religion?  Is that what the idea of  one god does?  Destroys the ability to find one's own identity with one's neighbours and relatives and imposes something from outside?

    Is this what one god societies do?

    Quote
    In trying to explain the origins of Judaism, Freud used his concept of a “primal murder” as the origin of human civilization. Without going into lengthy details, the primal murder was essentially a trauma occasioned by mankind’s transition from a primitive form of social organization (the “primal horde”) to the beginnings of modern civilization. The accomplishments and neuroses of civilization were, Freud believed, driven by the reaction to and repression of this primal trauma. It was, in other words, the Oedipal complex applied to the life of a collective, rather than that of an individual human being.

    Freud ran into a serious problem, however, when he tried to explain how the psychological impact of this trauma was passed down over the millennia of human civilization. Since a civilization is not a single individual, and thus by definition has no memory, how could the impact of the primal trauma be conveyed to each new generation?

    In what many consider the greatest flaw in his book, Freud ultimately concluded that the memory (or “memory traces,” as he called them) of this trauma must have been passed down genetically, through what is referred to as a Lamarckian form of evolution, in which acquired traits can be transmitted to offspring by their parents.

    The only problem was that even at the time Freud was writing — the middle- to late-1930s — Lamarckism had been discredited in favor of the evolutionary theories of Charles Darwin. Darwinism held that acquired traits could not be passed genetically, for fairly obvious commonsense reasons: If you cut off your hand, for example, your children will still be born with both hands. Freud did not long survive the publication of “Moses and Monotheism,” and even when confronted with the flaws in his Lamarckian theories, refused to deny that at least something like it must have occurred.

    Freud’s failure, however, may point us in the direction of an answer to the riddle of circumcision.

    If we accept his theory that the foundation of any civilization is a traumatic event, and it seems reasonable to do so — if only because when a group of people join together in a civilization, they must discard and destroy the pre-civilizational culture and way of life according to which generations of them have lived — then the nature, power, and essential role of circumcision begins to become clear: It is nothing less than the means by which the primal trauma of a civilization is passed to the next generation; because it is, in effect, the re-infliction of the primal trauma upon each new generation. The primal trauma, which is the motive power behind any civilization, thus not only survives but is re-experienced again and again over the course of history.



    http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-has-jewish-ritual-of-circumcision-survived-so-long-and-remained-so-resonant/

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #6 - March 01, 2013, 09:47 AM

    the arabs must have brained washed us honestly to make us believe their faith was better than our gods.

     but there is hope. I was contacted by a somali writer based in New York, there is a think tank/foundation that is about to tackle this monster of arabinazation and islamization of somalia.They tend to influence policy with the new government of somalia.... (cant wait to see the islamic madrassas that teach arabic and islam destroyed)

    will send you the link once i have it.

    we can  do it xiis. It just a matter of time

    we will have our country and our people back (now they are on voodoo)
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #7 - March 01, 2013, 09:51 AM

    AHA Foundation?  Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

    With Imaan, how come two women are the best known Somalis on the planet?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #8 - March 01, 2013, 09:58 AM

    Actually, if anyone can influence policy in Somalia, I strongly recommend the idea of health for all.  BRAC is a very good example, if this can be rolled out in Somalia.

    Quote
    “BRAC is a development organisation dedicated to alleviate poverty by empowering the poor, and helping them to bring about positive changes in their lives by creating opportunities for the poor.

    Our journey began in 1972 in the newly sovereign Bangladesh, and over the course of our evolution, we have been playing a role of recognising and tackling the many different realities of poverty. We believe that there is no single cause of poverty; hence we attempt tackling poverty on multiple fronts.

    Our priorities

    Focus on women - BRAC places special emphasis on the social and financial empowerment of women. The vast majority of its microloans go to women, while a gender justice programme addresses discrimination and exploitation.

    Grassroots Empowerment - BRAC’s legal rights, community empowerment and advocacy programmes organise the poor at the grassroots level, with ‘barefoot lawyers’ delivering legal services to the doorsteps of the poor.

    Health and Education - BRAC provides healthcare and education to millions. Our 97,000 community health workers offer doorstep deliveries of vital medicines and health services to their neighbours. BRAC also runs the world’s largest private, secular education system, with 38,000 schools worldwide.

    Empowering farmers – Operating in eight countries, BRAC’s agriculture programmes work with governments to ensure food security by producing, distributing and marketing quality seeds at fair prices, conducting research to develop better varieties, offering credit support to poor farmers and using environmentally sustainable practices.

    Inclusive Financial Services - BRAC attempts alleviating poverty by providing CEP and TUP services, disbursing over a billion dollars in microloans annually, augmenting microfinance with additional services like livelihood and financial literacy training. Farmers get access to seasonal loans, high quality seeds and technical assistance. Millions now have the freedom to take control of their lives.

    Self-Sustaining Solutions - BRAC’s enterprises and investments generate a financial surplus that is reinvested in various development programmes subjected to poverty alleviation.

    Our strengths

    Thinking local, acting global – Besides Bangladesh, BRAC spreads antipoverty solutions to 10 other developing countries, which are Uganda, Tanzania, Sierra Leone, South Sudan, Liberia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and the Philippines.

    Unprecedented scale and reach – Today, BRAC reaches an estimated 126 million people with over 100,000 employees worldwide.

    http://www.brac.net/content/who-we-are#.USAABqX1jq8




    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #9 - March 01, 2013, 10:00 AM

    am not sure if its the AHA Foundation.... will let you know once i have the exact details.

    there are many others out there but perhaps not so well known like nurudin farah the author of the 'crooked' ribs'... touching on islam and women.

  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #10 - March 01, 2013, 10:08 AM

    Further examples of what is possible

    Quote
    World Relief writes:

    “Vurhonga is only a child in your village — it is less than four years old. But we have been teaching things that are different from the ways that you have lived for many years. How long will it be before you forget what Vurhonga taught and return to the old ways?”

    The grannies talked together for a while and then one of them replied. “We have a question for you. A person has been a slave for many years, but somebody buys them and gives them their freedom. How long will it be before they go back to be a slave again?”

    Before the work of care groups, the grannies in this village in Mozambique had been captive to an understanding of disease that to them felt like slavery.

    They attributed many diseases and deaths of women and children to the work of spirits and curses. Four years later, far fewer of their grandchildren were dying. The young children were thriving not because the spirits had become more kindly but because their parents and caregivers were taking positive, effective action to prevent or to rapidly treat their diseases.[5]”

    Arole and Arole note the importance of creating trust.[6]

    Future Generations notes:

    “Communities need help from officials, who can adjust policies and regulations to facilitate cooperation among factions and channel external resources. Communities also need help from experts who can build capacity by training, introduce new ideas, and help monitor change.”

    “When officials and experts show some humility, community enthusiasm becomes contagious. A feedback loop creates new expectations and standards for everyone. As one change supports another, social pressure builds, and those who do not cooperate are generally bypassed or overrun by the community’s momentum. This momentum will eventually redefine the entire community’s collective future.”



    http://www.coregroup.org/storage/documents/Resources/Tools/Care_Group_Manual_Final__Oct_2010.pdf

    [6] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jamkhed-Comprehensive-Health-Project-ebook/dp/B00B7KGZ9M/ref=pd_rhf_pe_p_t_2_4SHC

    [7] http://www.future.org/applied-research/process-change/4-key-principles

    Quote
    Alma- Ata Primary health care:

    …addresses the main health problems in the community, providing promotive, preventive, curative and rehabilitative services accordingly;
    includes at least: education concerning prevailing health problems and the methods of preventing and controlling them; promotion of food supply and proper nutrition; an adequate supply of safe water and basic sanitation; maternal and child health care, including family planning; immunization against the major infectious diseases; prevention and control of locally endemic diseases; appropriate treatment of common diseases and injuries; and provision of essential drugs;
    involves, in addition to the health sector, all related sectors and aspects of national and community development, in particular agriculture, animal husbandry, food, industry, education, housing, public works, communications and other sectors; and demands the coordinated efforts of all those sectors;
    requires and promotes maximum community and individual self-reliance and participation in the planning, organization, operation and control of primary health care, making fullest use of local, national and other available resources; and to this end develops through appropriate education the ability of communities to participate;
    should be sustained by integrated, functional and mutually supportive referral systems, leading to the progressive improvement of comprehensive health care for all, and giving priority to those most in need;
    relies, at local and referral levels, on health workers, including physicians, nurses, midwives, auxiliaries and community workers as applicable, as well as traditional practitioners as needed, suitably trained socially and technically to work as a health team and to respond to the expressed health needs of the community.
    Future Generations

    Since 2002, we have enabled community development councils and community action groups create self-help projects, such as water management, small scale transportation, home-based literacy and health courses. Communities have established:

    365 registered Action Groups with 1,936 members representing local communities and working together to improve governance and meet their basic needs, such as literacy, health and hygiene and income generation
             933 home and mosque-based classes in literacy, health and income generation for 25,597 beneficiaries, 71% being women and girls
             114 agricultural workshops for 2,470 farmers
             Youth and sports activities for nearly 5,000 boys and girls
             80 Community Development Councils (CDCs) and Community Development Plans (CDPs) that prioritize local reconstruction projects, such as wells and springs, schools, roads, bridges and improving local capacity for small scale income generating activities.
    Future Generations is guided by an approach that builds the self-sufficiency and independence of communities. The real work and activities are undertaken by locally-hired staff who mobilize volunteers and community action groups. 

By increasing the skills and knowledge of local action groups, Future Generations supports each community’s efforts to meet its own needs, thereby fostering ownership of projects and creating an environment of self-sufficiency and sustainability.[10]

    The Four Principles of SEED-SCALE

    NECESSARY CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE

    Future Generations researchers and colleagues have been monitoring community-based development and conservation programs worldwide to examine why some programs have succeeded and others have failed. This research concludes that in all cases of success, in which the program has been both sustainable and has gone to scale, four determinants can be found. In all these cases, successful community change resulted from a set of necessary conditions, which the SEED-SCALE process has described as four key principles.

    PRINCIPLE ONE: BUILD FROM COMMUNITY SUCCESS

    People’s energy and creativity expand as they realize that they are capable of controlling the challenges in their lives. One success becomes the stepping stone for subsequent successes and generates community confidence and forward momentum.

    Building on community successes is not the customary approach to social change. Professionals, government officials (and indeed the communities themselves) typically focus on the problems, and a long list quickly develops: poverty, the bad roads, poor schools, political, ethnic, or religious factions, etc.  Focusing on the problems emphasizes the deficiencies of a community instead of its existing strengths and capacity. The consequence is to beat the community down through what amounts to amassing the evidence that the community is incapable of solving its problems. The ensuing solution is for an outsider to step in and solve this litany of problems, creating a cycle of dependency.

    Identifying and then building on successes, however, is an approach that focuses on building upon the existing strengths in a community. This is a forward-moving constructive effort that focuses attention on community assets rather than needs.  Action is then based on an assessment of what is possible, rather than what “needs” to be done. Costs of development go down when attention turns to building on assets, rather than attempting goals that require massive influxes of resources from outside.

    PRINCIPLE TWO: THREE-WAY PARTNERSHIPS

    Community energy seldom mobilizes by itself. Communities need help from officials, who can adjust policies and regulations to facilitate cooperation among factions and channel external resources. Communities also need help from experts who can build capacity by training, introduce new ideas, and help monitor change.

    Our long-term studies of community development worldwide show that success results when communities work from the bottom up, when officials work from the top down, and when experts work from the outside in. All three roles are needed. When governments create enabling policies, change can accelerate in a cost-efficient way across entire regions. When appropriate experts are involved, development ideas are up-to-date, and fit the local ecology, culture, and economy. When communities are true partners (rather than simply being manipulated by governments or NGOs) then these communities can act more effectively to redefine their futures.

    Relationships between these three partners must be flexible, and need continuing adjustment. Many projects start out working well, but then flounder because participants do not understand that their relationships need to evolve. Initially, entrepreneurial leadership is important. In the middle stages, expert-led training, monitoring, and experimentation guide the process, with appropriate midcourse corrections. Later, structured systems will better help communities expand vision and capacity. And to facilitate this phase, officials and experts must shift their roles from control to support of community action.

     

     

    PRINCIPLE THREE: EVIDENCE-BASED DECISION-MAKING

    Action is effective when grounded in objective data. Lacking such data, participants will make decisions on the basis of transitory opinions. These tend to be most influenced by whoever talks most convincingly, or whoever holds more power at the moment. Lacking data from local situations, decisions are made on information from more distant situations—which may or may not be relevant. Factions polarize around differing opinions, but with accurate local data, and thoughtful guidance from officials and experts, differing community factions can find an objective common ground for working together.

While the principle of basing decisions on local data makes sense, accomplishing this goal is often compromised. The SEED process readily adjusts to local capacity, creating an easy-to-do technique by which every community each year can gather data relevant to its needs. Data gathering (especially using the key indicators of a SEED survey) is a process that can start simply and develop great sophistication over time.

    PRINCIPLE FOUR: CHANGES IN COMMUNITY BEHAVIOR

    People can come together in partnerships; they can agree on objective data; but, to achieve lasting results they must also change behaviors. While changing behavior for the community may start simply by gaining new skills, those in positions of power—community leaders, officials, or experts—face a more challenging requirement, changing their behavior to share power. This means giving up exclusive control, shifting to guidance that empowers rather than acting to foster dependency.

    For example, at first community members must be trained how to execute their tasks. But very soon, community members must be allowed to make mistakes as part of the developing process. After that, officials and experts must rapidly let go, and not just pretend to do so. This shift is especially difficult, but it can be brought on systematically if the seven steps of the community action cycle are repeated each year.

    When officials and experts show some humility, community enthusiasm becomes contagious. A feedback loop creates new expectations and standards for everyone. As one change supports another, social pressure builds, and those who do not cooperate are generally bypassed or overrun by the community’s momentum. This momentum will eventually redefine the entire community’s collective future.


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #11 - March 01, 2013, 10:19 AM

    no wonder our great grandfathers used to say  when cursing someone  'abaha iyo dintaadha waas'.... which in  somali means 'screw you and your religion' 

    now i get the joke!
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #12 - March 01, 2013, 10:22 AM

    Soo dhawow, outcastedgal!

     parrot

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #13 - March 01, 2013, 10:46 AM

    There is definitely an imperialistic aspect to Islam throughout history. It almost inculcates a self-hatred in many of those who convert - they hate what is non Islamic in their own heritage and history because its seen as impure and Jahil. This applies on a personal level, and can be seen on a wider level societal level too.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #14 - March 01, 2013, 01:14 PM

    We are still as proud as ever and thats good

    I don't get you. Pride in what is a good thing?

    Quote
    clan complexity

    Might be an idea to ditch that too.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #15 - March 01, 2013, 01:20 PM

    Soo dhawow outcastedgal  bunny

    I never lived in Somalia and even I somehow manage to get nostalgic listening to folk songs and seeing vids and pics of how Somalia was back in the day; all colourful diracs and not a single headscarf, beard, kufi or man-dress in sight. Now, whenever I see Somalia on the news it's all men in kufis and women in jilbabs and niqabs.

    I thought all Somalis could track back their ancestry several hundred years - all Islamic.

    That we can do; it’s called abtirsi and Somalis are really proud of it.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #16 - March 01, 2013, 01:27 PM

    I'm curious about the brainwashing that the Arabs did in Somalia. Because I'm not aware that things like FGM takes place in Arab countries.



    Will eliminating Islam from your country stop these practises?

    Quote
    I don't get you. Pride in what is a good thing?

     
    I'm not nationalistic, so I asked the same in my head (assuming the meaning is Somali/tribe pride).

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #17 - March 01, 2013, 01:35 PM

    Quote
    Crucially, the illumination came from two specialists in reproductive medicine within Saudi Arabia, a country where FGM is frequently practised.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2008/nov/13/female-genital-mutilation-sexual-dysfunction

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #18 - March 01, 2013, 01:38 PM

    Ok, that's news to me. Burqas and FGM, nice.

    Quote
    In the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, it is practiced mainly among foreign workers from East Africa and the Nile Valley. A 2009 study suggested that FGM had virtually disappeared among the Negev Bedouin.[13]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #19 - March 01, 2013, 03:40 PM

    ^FGM didn't come from the Arabs; that's African stuff, but the Islamic garb and literalism came from Wahhabi missionaries and Somalis who'd lived in the Arab world then brought their ideas back with them. My mum tells me stories of how the ultra-religious were mocked and hated for denouncing a lot of the Sufi traditions that Somalis participated in as bid'ah, as well as denouncing a lot of un-Islamic superstitious crap that was a part of Somali culture. My maternal grandfather -- an Arab -- was often accused of being a Wahhabi because he wasn't into some weird Sufi dhikr stuff (that involved singing in mosque) that the Somalis were into.

    I don't think the Ay-rabz ruined Somalia; I'm not even sure Islam ruined Somalia. You've got to remember it was a dictatorship and there were clan divisions and tensions that were simmering beneath the surface that weren't addressed hence it all eventually exploded. Islam, or at least Al-Qaeda and similar groups, operate and thrive in chaotic environments so the extremists took hold AFTER everything had already gone to hell. In fact, before the Islamic Courts folks appeared in '06 all the fighting was the work of warlords and clan-based militias with Islam not having a role. People turn to religion when they're in trouble so the Islamists who were previously laughed at and persecuted by the government fed off that and voila what was once diracs and afros became jilbabs and man-dresses. Then came shari'ah, then came Al-Shabbab.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #20 - March 01, 2013, 03:41 PM

    Plus, I don't think its fair to blame the unfortunate development known as Islam on the Arabs Cheesy
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #21 - March 01, 2013, 05:31 PM

    My mum told me of how irreverent towards religion Somalis used to be pre-civil war. "nabigaga was" (fuck your prophet) and similar insults were apparently very common up north; my mum reckons the chaos in Somalia is partially Allah's wrath for all that blasphemy Cheesy This, despite the fact that the north is relatively peaceful, and the south is where the real chaos is at.


    Haha, wtf? Are we twins?
    When me and my siblings where younger, we had these evenings when nostalgia and memory overtook our mum. During these seizures of sudden nostalgia, she would recall how free and civil Somalia was, when women had ownership of the physical and intellectual self and Sharia-laws didn't exist. She told us these things, almost wondrous and in awe of the society she left behind. I sometimes think, when looking back at these episodes, that this might have been her momentous glances of a small windows out of Islamic dogma and into what she remembered as a irreligious and free society. A moment later the religious psychology would kick in and she would be just as dogmatic as any other Somali mother. The glimpse of free thought erased and forgotten, into the bin of blasphemy.

    And the "nabigaga was" thing, I've heard this being said on two occasions now. In a football cup, where a North-Somali got pissed and in Hargeisa, last time I was there. No, it's not a myth as I thought!

    Btw, I was told this friendly joke by a Somali from Mogadishu, who just went on to tease me for being from the North and how ignorant we are of religion and Islam. So he went...a Somali from Woqoyga traveled with his son to Mogadishu for the first time. He went to a mosque, when his little son saw hundreds of people praying. The son asked: Dad, what is this? The father said: This is a local sport here. The imam calls together the masses from the minaret. They stand in rows, one after the other. Then under order from the Imam, all make a dash towards the shoes and steal the best one's they could find!

    Decent joke considering it's imported from Somalia. But I've got to say I'm a little proud of the aura of irreligiosity associated with Somaliland.  Afro

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #22 - March 01, 2013, 05:39 PM

    Great post, Minimow.

    It's sad that the title of this thread can basically be applied to any Muslim-majority country today, including those in the Arabian Peninsula. 
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #23 - March 01, 2013, 05:43 PM

    As for the thread, I think we should be a little bit careful blaming Islam when blame is not due. The country was destroyed by power-thirsty tribal annihilists, as I've understood it.

    As for the total destruction of Somali culture, music, literature and art? Well, that we can blame Islam for. I don't know where to start, when I want to learn about the Somali cultural and artistic heritage, because all I find on the subject matter is a gut-wrenching green flag with Islamic initials on it, resembling the utter and total surrender of Somalia, over to Islam.

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #24 - March 01, 2013, 05:55 PM

     islam does promote arabs as the ideal, since mo was arab.. sure.. but not all arabs are muslim..
     i'm a believer that you choose your culture the way you choose your religion and i've dealt with too much arab hate, comments, and messages to last me a few life times..
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #25 - March 01, 2013, 06:02 PM

    the topic at hand is about islam not about arabs.

    so please nesrin stick to the topic thnkyu
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #26 - March 01, 2013, 06:08 PM

    the arabs must have brained washed us honestly to make us believe their faith was better than our gods.





    i was... and you're welcome
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #27 - March 01, 2013, 06:14 PM

    would be nice to get more comments from somalis

    thanks
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #28 - March 01, 2013, 06:18 PM

    Haha, wtf? Are we twins?
    When me and my siblings where younger, we had these evenings when nostalgia and memory overtook our mum. During these seizures of sudden nostalgia, she would recall how free and civil Somalia was, when women had ownership of the physical and intellectual self and Sharia-laws didn't exist. She told us these things, almost wondrous and in awe of the society she left behind. I sometimes think, when looking back at these episodes, that this might have been her momentous glances of a small windows out of Islamic dogma and into what she remembered as a irreligious and free society. A moment later the religious psychology would kick in and she would be just as dogmatic as any other Somali mother. The glimpse of free thought erased and forgotten, into the bin of blasphemy.

    And the "nabigaga was" thing, I've heard this being said on two occasions now. In a football cup, where a North-Somali got pissed and in Hargeisa, last time I was there. No, it's not a myth as I thought!

    Btw, I was told this friendly joke by a Somali from Mogadishu, who just went on to tease me for being from the North and how ignorant we are of religion and Islam. So he went...a Somali from Woqoyga traveled with his son to Mogadishu for the first time. He went to a mosque, when his little son saw hundreds of people praying. The son asked: Dad, what is this? The father said: This is a local sport here. The imam calls together the masses from the minaret. They stand in rows, one after the other. Then under order from the Imam, all make a dash towards the shoes and steal the best one's they could find!

    Decent joke considering it's imported from Somalia. But I've got to say I'm a little proud of the aura of irreligiosity associated with Somaliland.  Afro


    hahaha, that was a good one... lool  Cheesy


    thanks for sharing!!
  • Islam destroyed my country. We were never muslims to begin with
     Reply #29 - March 01, 2013, 06:18 PM

    This may be a bit controversial, but I find myself thinking sometimes that Muslim majority countries need to go through a phase of Islamic fundamentalism in order to dispel the myth of the Islamic Utopia. Unlike the Christian world, the Islamic world has not experienced a “Dark Ages” that was directly attributable to religion.

    Up until the relatively recent collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Muslims could look back on the period of Islamic rule with a sense of nostalgia. The downfall of the influence of the Islamic world is often attributed not to religion, but to western colonialism and imperialism. As such, Islam is often portrayed by many as the Muslim World’s saving grace.  Even in Arab states that actively revolted against the Ottoman “Khalifah” and in which a strong sense of secular, pan-Arab nationalism was developed, years of dictatorship and oppression have fostered a grass roots return to the only thing that people identify as inherently good: Islam  

    It is not until people can experience the Mullah-cracy in practice that we will begin to see the resentment, and ultimately, the rejection that is slowly taking place in  places like Iran, Somalia, and Afghanistan—and in less than a generation. Once the modern Muslim world gets a taste of just how bitter life can be under shariah rule, later generations will look back at that time as the “Dark Ages.” Like Europe, they will do everything they can not to return to it.  
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