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 Topic: Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal

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  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     OP - March 11, 2013, 02:38 AM


    The following is a statement by concerned students.

    Sexual segregation at a UCL event is a scandal

    A policy of sexual segregation was enforced at an event at University College London on Saturday, with the organisers’ security trying to physically remove members of the audience who would not comply.

    Seating at the event was segregated between men and women, with a small ‘mixed’ space allocated for couples.

    Separate entrances were in place for women and men, although ‘couples’ were allowed to enter via the men’s door. Male attendees were refused entry via the women’s door.

    The event “Islam vs Atheism” on Saturday 9th was organised by the Islamic Education and Research Academy (IERA), and pitted writer Hamza Tzortzis against Professor Laurence Krauss in a debate.

    A policy of segregation was suggested by IERA in a statement before the event, which said: “As for seating, it is according to when the ticket was booked and gender.” This was raised by students with UCL, who gave assurances that no segregation would be allowed.

    Fiona McClement, UCL equalities and diversities adviser, said on 8th March: “We have been in contact with the event organisers and made it clear that UCL will not permit enforced gender segregated seating. All attendees are free to sit wherever they feel comfortable.”

    Sarah Guise, head of equalities and diversity, deans of students Mike Ewing (academic) and Ruth Siddall (welfare), as well as UCL gender champions Professor Mary Collins and Baroness Diana Warwick of Undercliffe, were also informed of the plans of the organisers to breach UCL’s Equality and Diversity policy.

    Ms McClement and Rob de Bruin, co-chair of the 50:50 Gender Equality Group, said: “The UCL security team will be in attendance to ensure compliance with this. If the event organisers do not comply, the event will not be permitted to go ahead.”

    Despite these assurances, segregation was enforced on the night. 

    At the entrance to the UCL building audience members were separated into male and female only queues by the organisers’ security staff.

    The policy of segregation was strictly enforced inside the building. Male attendees were refused entry via the women’s door to the lecture theatre. When asked if the event was segregated, one of the security staff said: “It’s slightly segregated.” Dr Aisha Rahman said she was an organiser and that the room had been booked on behalf of UCL Chemistry. She said the segregation had been agreed with the University and suggested more than once that the men should be refused entry.

    Several attendees approached UCL’s security personnel to alert them to the situation, but found that the staff were unwilling to intervene, and were instructed to comply with the organisers’ policy of segregation.

    After more discussion, three male attendees were told they would be permitted to sit in the women’s section, but were directed to an isolated space on the side of the lecture theatre, away from everyone else.

    One of the students, Christopher Roche, said: “It was clear that the segregation was still in effect as when I sat in the same aisle as female attendees I was immediately instructed by security to exit the theatre. I was taken to a small room with IERA security staff and an organiser named Mohammad who told me that the policy was actually given to IERA by UCL.

    “Shocked, I said that I would like to return to my seat but was told that security would now remove me from the premises for refusing to comply with the gender segregation.”

    The organisers’ security staff then tried to physically remove Mr Roche and Adam Barnett, a journalism student and friend of Mr Roche, from the theatre.

    Professor Krauss intervened and threatened to leave to stop the removal of the two audience members. The organisers then prepared a row near the women’s section at the back of the room where the two men sat quietly for the event. Professor Kraus said he had been told in advance that there would be no segregation, and that people could sit wherever they wanted.

    Adam Barnett said: “What happened on Saturday is a scandal. UCL and the organisers owe an apology to me, my friend, the audience and the general public. For a London University to allow forced segregation by sex in 2013 is disgraceful.

    “The organisers should also apologise for their appalling behaviour if they want to hold any more events on campuses in the future.”

    He added: “It’s insulting to be told that because I’m a man I can’t sit near women in the audience. I’m not in the habit of forcing my presence where it’s unwanted, but the event’s organisers have no business policing social matters of this kind. Furthermore, the women in question were never asked whether they cared where we sat.”

    “In this case the segregation was non-voluntary. But voluntary or not, segregation is wrong, as well as a violation of UCL policy.”

    Another student attendee, Halima, said “What happened at UCL was utterly disgraceful. I found the atmosphere intimidating and divisive, and I regret not joining my male friends in openly opposing this violation of gender equality in public premises. However, I was genuinely fearful of the repercussions.

    “As an Asian woman I found the enforcement of non-voluntary segregated seating incredibly offensive and especially outraged to see females were allocated seats at the back corner of the auditorium to view the debate from a disadvantaged position. Segregation based on gender difference is totally unacceptable under any circumstances and UCL's failure to protect equal rights is a heavy stain on their reputation.”

    Chris Moos, a PhD student who sought assurances from UCL before the debate, said: “Having personally attended this event, I cannot tell you how disappointed I and many other attendees are that UCL did not live up to its promise to make sure that its Equality and Diversity policy was enforced.

    “Overall, the atmosphere of the event was intimidating for both male and female students, who were shocked to see that although concerns about the plans to enforce gender segregation had been raised before with UCL, the organisers were able to violate its policy and create a threatening and divisive atmosphere that was not inclusive to all attendees.”
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #1 - March 11, 2013, 03:16 AM

    sneaky ay, what is the purposed of segregation in a debate , it's much better if people can change opinion across gender, imo.
    Not that am any better, anyway.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #2 - March 11, 2013, 05:28 AM

    Honestly I think they were being fair by having separate and mixed sections, for Muslim ladies who are uncomfortable around guys. Gender segregation doesn't sit right with me, but if it's requested, by said people, why not respect their wishes?

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #3 - March 11, 2013, 09:00 AM

    It's fine if there's a request, but why  treat people like that, people flocks wherever they want anyway, no need for a strict and physical intervention tho, by right, it's a public space(?) ain't a country living in a country, realistically enough, we are separate entities as it is, segregated by air, clothes, mebbe some towering burqa, niqab and hijab.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #4 - March 11, 2013, 09:02 AM

    Just want to share a regrets of mine, dunno if it's relevant or not, living through segregation, all male siblings, twice, all male high schools, going through a lil' bit of cultural shock in my brief uni's day.
  • Re: Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #5 - March 11, 2013, 11:10 AM

    Honestly I think they were being fair by having separate and mixed sections, for Muslim ladies who are uncomfortable around guys. Gender segregation doesn't sit right with me, but if it's requested, by said people, why not respect their wishes?


    Where's the proof that all the women who were made to sit in the back requested it?

    Would you be making such an excuse if this had been racial segregation instead?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #6 - March 11, 2013, 12:06 PM

    People should not be under the impression that segregation is a reasonable thing to request. There are lots of types of people that I would rather not sit next to (Hamza Tzortzis, Gingers, Australians), and if it bothers me that much that I can make a personal effort to avoid such things. Literally nobody else should be expected to care about my pathetic concerns.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #7 - March 11, 2013, 12:22 PM

     
    Honestly I think they were being fair by having separate and mixed sections, for Muslim ladies who are uncomfortable around guys. Gender segregation doesn't sit right with me, but if it's requested, by said people, why not respect their wishes?


    A lot of Muslims are claiming that the Muslim women wanted to sit segregated, which is fine but the undertone of this though is that they accept segregation of genders as a positive. Muslim women want to do it because they are told- by the Muslim men no less- that it is what is right. Ofcourse they will be feeling uncomfortable mixing with men when they are indoctrinated that they should beware of intincing men with their very presence.  Roll Eyes
    When Muslims are willing to teach that mixing genders is not a bad thing then there will be little progress, the muslim women are perpetuating this either voluntarily or involuntarily when they timidly except the status quo of segregation as a fundamental part of Islam doctrine.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #8 - March 11, 2013, 12:41 PM

    Gender segregation has been institutionalized from where I stay,the startling aspect of it is that there is a growing number of women in support of it. The annoying part of gender segregation is that it doesn't favour both genders rather it alienates them further

    Quote
    the muslim women are perpetuating this either voluntarily or involuntarily


    Men are horny dogs, so don't sit beside them otherwise they will mount on you.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #9 - March 11, 2013, 12:58 PM

    Quote
    Men are horny dogs, so don't sit beside them otherwise they will mount on you.


    I bet those 3 men were salivating at the prospect of brushing arms with the Muslim women in the back row.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #10 - March 11, 2013, 02:04 PM

    If you don't keep the men and women at opposite ends of the room, an orgy would start-duh

    Seriously though, this is a uni, not a mosque wacko

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #11 - March 11, 2013, 02:15 PM

    Lawrence Krauss Walkout

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRrSmwqUxtk

    Quote
    Dawah DUD says:

    Its a shame that a couple of uncivilised disrespectful men had to disrupt an otherwise amazing well organised event.

    Clearly this was a pre-planned tactic to divert attention away from the actual outcome of the debate.


    well  juice started that Huh?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZt0jl7qmIQ

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #12 - March 11, 2013, 02:20 PM

    Not a chance in the world I'd ever sit segregated.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #13 - March 11, 2013, 02:26 PM

    Where's the proof that all the women who were made to sit in the back requested it?

    Would you be making such an excuse if this had been racial segregation instead?

    Or if the modest Muslim ladies had requested not to sit next to black men?

    Segregation's the thin end of a slippery slope, Miss Crunchy.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #14 - March 11, 2013, 02:41 PM

    Quote
    It now appears that, despite our clear instructions, attempts were made to enforce segregation at the meeting. We are still investigating what actually happened at the meeting but, given IERA’s original intentions for a segregated audience we have concluded that their interests are contrary to UCL’s ethos and that we should not allow any further events involving them to take place on UCL premises.


    http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0313/11032013-meeting
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #15 - March 11, 2013, 04:58 PM

    Where's the proof that all the women who were made to sit in the back requested it?

    Would you be making such an excuse if this had been racial segregation instead?


    ok my mistake I didn't know they were sitting at the back. Sorry. I just thought that you had a women only section that started from the front and went back, to be fair, but then I guess that's stupid, women have to always be at the back.  Roll Eyes >_<

    Sorry mis-understanding. Then again I guess the mix-section doesn't make any sense, since the Muslim community liked to jabber about the habits of it's members, and god forbid a hijabi goes to the mixed- section. :X

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #16 - March 11, 2013, 05:07 PM

    they banned IERA: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0313/11032013-meeting

    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #17 - March 12, 2013, 09:34 AM

    I'm probably alone here but I don't think that gender segregation at Islamic events is a big deal. What bothers me is the fact that women always get the shorter end of the stick by having to sit in the back or in a smaller, crappier space finmad That's unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. 

  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #18 - March 12, 2013, 09:38 AM

    Where's the proof that all the women who were made to sit in the back requested it?

    I know Mr. "bang bang it's dawah time" says the women didn't want men near them, and other online Muslims say the same thing but who knows? Maybe they really didn't. 
    Quote
    …racial segregation

    I don't think that's quite the same. Sex and race aren't analogous. Toilets (and other facilities) are segregated by sex; why don't we complain about that? I'm sure we would if they were segregated by race. 
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #19 - March 12, 2013, 11:13 AM

    How do the Muslimahs make sure they are not sitting next to any lesbians?
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #20 - March 12, 2013, 12:45 PM

    The irony here being that this event was held the day after International Women's Day.
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #21 - March 12, 2013, 01:10 PM

    and also at the first university in the country to allow women to study there
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #22 - July 19, 2013, 01:00 PM

    racial segergation I don't think that's quite the same. Sex and race aren't analogous. Toilets (and other facilities) are segregated by sex; why don't we complain about that? I'm sure we would if they were segregated by race. 


    Look at the differences in a culture and mind-set which views and treats men and women as equals and compare it to one that screams different different danger danger  Then come back to me. The toilet thing is a ridiculous thing to say.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #23 - July 19, 2013, 02:23 PM

    If you don't keep the men and women at opposite ends of the room, an orgy would start-duh

    Seriously though, this is a uni, not a mosque wacko

    Believers have orgies at mosques? w00t Why didn't anyone tell me? finmad

    I suddenly feel the urge to visit a mosque. And realised I've never been in one actually. Meh...

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Re: Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #24 - July 19, 2013, 06:07 PM

    I know Mr. "bang bang it's dawah time" says the women didn't want men near them, and other online Muslims say the same thing but who knows? Maybe they really didn't. I don't think that's quite the same. Sex and race aren't analogous. Toilets (and other facilities) are segregated by sex; why don't we complain about that? I'm sure we would if they were segregated by race.

    Was the conference held in a public washroom?
    Were there toilets and urinals in the hall?
    Muslim women do not like to sit next to men in Muslim countries, is it because women feel insecure next to Muslim men?

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #25 - July 19, 2013, 06:13 PM

    I know Mr. "bang bang it's dawah time" says the women didn't want men near them, and other online Muslims say the same thing but who knows? Maybe they really didn't.  


    I saw a number of non Muslim men and women commenting on it saying how intimidated they felt, how horrified they were and how glad they are Krauss stood up for them. Like the Professor said, he doesn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable but they knew coming in it wasn't segregated. This whole male/female fear brainwashing is not only unhealthy it's unnatural and dangerous.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #26 - July 19, 2013, 11:33 PM

    I remember watching this debate and found the secret segregation absolutely despicable when the issue came to light.  IMO, the university should have done more because it seemed like they were turning a blind eye.

    This sort of behaviour just further highlights the dangerous level of influence Islam is having in the UK.

    "If a monster existed, it was buried deep within."
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #27 - July 20, 2013, 02:32 AM

    Quote
    This whole male/female fear brainwashing is not only unhealthy it's unnatural and dangerous.


    Agreed.

    Quote
    This sort of behaviour just further highlights the dangerous level of influence Islam is having in the UK.


    Sad, but true.  wacko

    I remember some years back there was a big nasheed concert in Manchester and the organizers got their panties all in a twist over one of the big nasheed group (cant remember their name) scheduled to perform there because they had a large female following and they ended up canceling their performance (the organizers) for fear that the girls and women would go too wild over the group and their performance.

    What a bunch of stupidity.

    Islam is a religion which teaches you to distrust everyone and anything.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #28 - July 20, 2013, 08:42 AM

    Quote
    I remember some years back there was a big nasheed concert in Manchester and the organizers got their panties all in a twist over one of the big nasheed group (cant remember their name) scheduled to perform there because they had a large female following and they ended up canceling their performance (the organizers) for fear that the girls and women would go too wild over the group and their performance.


    That is simultaneously comical, pathetic and disturbing.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sexual segregation at UCL event is a scandal
     Reply #29 - July 20, 2013, 03:42 PM

    @peeps who replied to my posts

    My point is that gender and race aren't analogous, evidenced by the fact that gender segregation is appropriate in certain contexts, while racial segregation is wrong at its core in all contexts. I’m not endorsing gender segregation; I’m just calling out a false analogy. The way I see it, segregating the genders is a symptom of a larger problem within Islam.
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