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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hip Hop and Rape Culture

 (Read 6070 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #30 - August 27, 2013, 07:35 AM

    See what happens when I resurrect a thread?  popcorn

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #31 - August 27, 2013, 08:16 AM

    Its an interesting subject and very topical at the moment.  No idea why nobody noticed the thread when it was first posted, I spose sometimes threads just get lost in the crowd.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #32 - August 27, 2013, 08:49 AM

    I'd struggle to find a more anti-misogyny hip hop track.

    This is a little lacking in gangsta cred: King Sun - Hey Love.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko7tLC7iuO8
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #33 - August 27, 2013, 12:24 PM

    Let's be honest though, the Tupacs of the rap industry are long gone and not really what we are complaining about here.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #34 - August 27, 2013, 12:43 PM

    True.  Its all Lil Wayne and Chief Keef nowadays. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #35 - August 27, 2013, 02:40 PM

    And fake ones like Rick Ross, that man is everything that is wrong with hip hop industry. Is the state of mainstream rap industry that bad that an ex-correctional officer has to steal someone's name and his persona and make a cash out of it? I'm quite stun to see this man dominating the hip-hop/rap charts and also surprise that he is among the roster of Def Jam.This is one of the things that drove me away from mainstream hip hop and stopped watching MTV and BET(a tv station that once rejected De La Soul videos because they deem them "too intelligent")

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #36 - August 27, 2013, 02:57 PM

    I'd never heard of Rick Ross, so I looked him up. Found this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D874kQpNEpc

    Soooooooo, the impression I got was "I got more money than god and beautiful women everywhere and you don't! Na na na na na na!"

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #37 - August 27, 2013, 03:13 PM

    I hate that clown. And 2 Chainz or however the hell he spells it. The only mainstream, media-endorsed rapper I enjoy right now is Kendrick Lamar really, and that's because he can actually rap.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #38 - August 27, 2013, 04:51 PM

    This is why I listen almost exclusively to back in the day hip hop. I don't even bother looking out for new hip hop. I'll give stuff a try if it's recommended to me, but I don't actively seek it out anymore.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #39 - August 28, 2013, 12:59 AM

    but at least have some experience in the field,


    What the fuck does that even mean?

    Quote
    Tupac demonstrates that he had none with what he said in that song.


    No, you demonstrate that you don't understand the use of hyperbole even when making social commentary in a song. Do you similarly pick apart every politically-charged lyric in CSN&Y, Bob Dylan, The Clash, Public Enemy, Bob Marley, and hold them to those same technical standards? If so you must be a blast to go to music shows with.

    Quote
    but most of Tipac's other songs are just about glamourising violence, crime and money.


    SOME of this other songs do, and as Cato already pointed out, most are on one album. The album the song Ishina posted from isn't like that at all.

    Quote
    Really? Because I have visited a lot of countries in Europe and never really felt that. The real shocking contrast I see is in the poverty you see in Third World countries, where you see people that obviously have 0 chance of bettering their lives or their children's lives. Obviously the US does need to improve it's social welfare system and I'd be happy to pay higher taxes to support it. Id rather see a system like the UK has,


    Where are you from? What is your line of work? What did your parents do for work? Did you read a lot of Ayn Rand as a young man?

    I'm trying here to assess the exact source of your ignorance.

    Quote
    but to say the US has no money to feed the poor is just flat out wrong and shows that Tupac had no understanding of the social welfare system.


    Again, hyperbole...it's a fuckin song not a public policy paper. The US does spend a ridiculous amount of its GDP on the military while spending a relatively small amount (especially in comparison to other wealthy industrialized countries) on social welfare-- so the basic message he's getting across with that line is correct. I'm sure Pac was aware of food stamps, WIC, and food banks when he wrote that, Jesus fuckin Christ.

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #40 - August 28, 2013, 09:20 PM

    What the fuck does that even mean?


    What I meant was that its better to have studied the topic or have personal experience in it and actually understand the real issues and challenges, not just make things up.

    I really dont understand your reaction. Ive already said that I am in favor of a more Socialist system and willing to give a higher portion of my salary to support it. Is that to Bourgie for you? Do I need to be actually plotting to overthrow the government to be ok with you?
  • Re: Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #41 - August 28, 2013, 09:47 PM

    People should not rely on uneducated entertainers for social commentary, In that song that Ishina posted, Tupac says "they got money for wars but can't feed the poor", which is hyperbole in the extreme! Noone in the US goes hungry because they have food stamps for the poor. The fact is that the US has by far one of the best social welfare programs in the world, not on the same level as the UK, but better than 90% of the world.


    Given that music (even of the subversive sort) enforces a sort of antithetical ideological conformity, I really don't see how Tupac's hyperbole is relevant in any shape or form.

    I mean, that's got to be it, people don't even need to read Das Kapital or a critique of political economy, all they need do is listen to a few Tupac records and the revolution will be nigh, comrades!

    I really dont understand your reaction. Ive already said that I am in favor of a more Socialist system and willing to give a higher portion of my salary to support it. Is that to Bourgie for you? Do I need to be actually plotting to overthrow the government to be ok with you?


    Do you actually understand the master/slave dialectic that Marxian ontology is predicated upon? Also, as a worker, you're not bourgeois, seen as you don't own the means of production.

    Ugh, not this again.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #42 - August 28, 2013, 10:38 PM

    I've heard a lot of criticism of rappers, but criticising one for rapping about stopping war and feed the poor is a new one.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #43 - August 28, 2013, 10:42 PM

    I think its more the perceived naivete of the lyrics than the sentiment that is being criticised. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #44 - August 28, 2013, 10:58 PM

    Either way, it's a ridiculous and petty criticism that misses the point entirely, and ironically revealing Tony's own naivety about the subject.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #45 - August 28, 2013, 11:59 PM

    I really dont understand your reaction. Ive already said that I am in favor of a more Socialist system and willing to give a higher portion of my salary to support it.


    Wonderful. Please give me a map to your knob that I may slobber on it.

    Quote
    Is that to Bourgie for you? Do I need to be actually plotting to overthrow the government to be ok with you?


    Nah what you need to do is tell me that even if you haven't suffered under capitalism in America due to your social class and/or ethnicity that you at least understand it-- everything you've said on this thread so far points in the opposite direction.

    I've heard a lot of criticism of rappers, but criticising one for rapping about stopping war and feed the poor is a new one.


     Afro

    I think its more the perceived naivete of the lyrics than the sentiment that is being criticised. 


    Perceived is key here.

    Either way, it's a ridiculous and petty criticism that misses the point entirely, and ironically revealing Tony's own naivety about the subject.


    You're fuckin okay, kid. Tongue

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #46 - August 29, 2013, 12:35 AM

    *Latasha Harlins

    *Jonny Gammage

    *Abner Louima

    *Amadou Diallo

    *Jayshon Bryant

    *Sean Bell

    *Oscar Grant

    *Trayvon Martin

    *Many other motherfuckers I can't name off the top of my head and/or who didn't make national news either because no one cared or the police cover up/prosecutorial inaction worked.

    *The world's highest incarceration rate (both per capita and total), with the vast majority incarcerated being poor and/or working class, and the Black population extremely overrepresented.

    *Studies showing Hispanic and Black defendants receive harsher sentences for the same crimes as White defendants (and yes this is after  accounting for priors).

    *Much higher mortality rates in the US for working-class/poor people, especially people of color.

    *Higher unemployment rates for Black males.

    Answer my questions, please, Tony-- where are you from, where are you now, what did your parents do for work, what do you do for work? I may have some follow-ups Tongue

    I'll give you this-- your position on this and the Palestinians is consistent-- you support the oppressor and dismiss or rationalize away the grievances of the oppressed.





    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #47 - August 29, 2013, 06:37 AM

    Trayvon Martin....hmm.  I was agreeing with you up till that point.  That's a crowd whipping case, not a miscarriage of justice. 

    Quote
    *Studies showing Hispanic and Black defendants receive harsher sentences for the same crimes as White defendants (and yes this is after  accounting for priors).


    True.  But according to the Innocence Project, you also need to account for coercive plea bargaining.  If you leave aside the cases where African American defendants have been intimidated into copping a plea, and simply compare white and black defendants who face a jury, the black defendant is more likely to be acquitted. 

    If you banned plea bargaining altogether in your system, and tightened up on prosecutorial misconduct, I wonder what the incarcaration rate of black males would look like then.   


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #48 - August 29, 2013, 07:23 AM

    Answer my questions, please, Tony-- where are you from, where are you now, what did your parents do for work, what do you do for work? I may have some follow-ups Tongue

    I'll give you this-- your position on this and the Palestinians is consistent-- you support the oppressor and dismiss or rationalize away the grievances of the oppressed.


    What? When have I ever dismissed or rationalized away the suffering of the Palestinians? Back that up with an actual quote of mine.

    I am from the UK, my parents are University professors. I started my career in the IT field and got bored of that, I worked in local government community redevelopment for the last 6 years, but i found that pretty disilusioning with seeing how much public funds get waisted to corruption. Plus it involves soft skills so it is too subjective as to whether you are hood at your job, most promotions are based on politics. At least with IT, youve either got it or you dont, noone can challenge that. So now I am back in IT, working as a programmer in the private sector, just started this job 2 weeks ago.

    What about you Q? Same questions back to you?
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #49 - August 29, 2013, 06:25 PM

    Trayvon Martin....hmm.  I was agreeing with you up till that point.  That's a crowd whipping case, not a miscarriage of justice.


    Explain please. I think the jury actually reached the correct verdict however it's how it was handled by the cops and the initial prosecutor that I consider racist...I have little doubt that were it 17 year old white kid there would have been a more thorough investigation and it seems probable he would have been charged with at least involuntary manslaughter. If cops didn't have a history of discriminatory conduct when arresting investigating and charging people, this would not have ever made national news. For me that's the issue...not whether Zimmerman was actually guilty of a crime or not...but that the authorities treated Trayvon's life with less regard than they would've a white kid. That's purely speculation of course, but not speculation bereft of context-- the lives of Black youth in the US are routinely treated by society and the authorities with less value than that of White youth.

    Quote
    True.  But according to the Innocence Project, you also need to account for coercive plea bargaining. 


    Correct.

    Quote
    If you banned plea bargaining altogether in your system, and tightened up on prosecutorial misconduct, I wonder what the incarcaration rate of black males would look like then.   


    Banning plea bargaining would require a major overhaul of the system (you'd have to spend much, much more money and resources on the courts systems and much less on law enforcement and incarceration)-- one which I favor, but I doubt is possible without major changes to the powers structure in this society as a whole.

    What? When have I ever dismissed or rationalized away the suffering of the Palestinians? Back that up with an actual quote of mine.


    I retract my previous statement. I just went back and looked it up and you made a misinformed statement about the situation in the US with Christian Zionism, which I believe you are doing now with poverty in America and our social welfare system, but you didn't do what I claimed. I apologize.

    Quote
    I am from the UK, my parents are University professors. I started my career in the IT field and got bored of that, I worked in local government community redevelopment for the last 6 years, but i found that pretty disilusioning with seeing how much public funds get waisted to corruption. Plus it involves soft skills so it is too subjective as to whether you are hood at your job, most promotions are based on politics. At least with IT, youve either got it or you dont, noone can challenge that. So now I am back in IT, working as a programmer in the private sector, just started this job 2 weeks ago.


    Thanks Smiley

    Quote
    What about you Q? Same questions back to you?


    I am from the US. My ma (also from the US) worked a variety of jobs. She was enlisted in the US Army around the time when I was born. She later worked as a public school teacher, IT for the USAF, moonlighted at a ghetto liquor store, and the last job she had was as a "sandwich artist" for Subway. Tongue She then had a massive stroke and has been on government disability since then. My dad (from Egypt) was a professional criminal, mostly fraud. Didn't really deal with him much growing up, or today for that matter. I have worked a variety of jobs myself, most of them relatively low-skill manual labor. For over the past decade I have been a labor union organizer/representative.

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #50 - August 29, 2013, 07:15 PM

    I'd struggle to find a more anti-misogyny hip hop track.


    Took me a while but I finally found one

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNej0Nonlw0

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #51 - August 29, 2013, 07:26 PM

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/19300

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #52 - August 30, 2013, 05:40 PM

    Quote
    Explain please. I think the jury actually reached the correct verdict however it's how it was handled by the cops and the initial prosecutor that I consider racist...I have little doubt that were it 17 year old white kid there would have been a more thorough investigation and it seems probable he would have been charged with at least involuntary manslaughter. If cops didn't have a history of discriminatory conduct when arresting investigating and charging people, this would not have ever made national news. For me that's the issue...not whether Zimmerman was actually guilty of a crime or not...but that the authorities treated Trayvon's life with less regard than they would've a white kid. That's purely speculation of course, but not speculation bereft of context-- the lives of Black youth in the US are routinely treated by society and the authorities with less value than that of White youth.


    Nothing I disagree with here.  I said its not a miscarriage of justice because I agree with the jury verdict.  Zimmerman behaved like an asshole that night, he should have stayed in his car like the dispatcher advised him to, but his actions didn't amount to anything criminal, or at any rate if they did, the prosecution couldn't prove it beyond reasonable doubt.  Not guilty was the correct verdict.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #53 - August 31, 2013, 01:14 AM

    Couldn't prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. But if the special prosecutor and those who appointed her hadn't been political cowards and actually charged him appropriately with involuntary manslaughter (which probably should have been the charge from day one) I think that would have been pretty easy to prove. Had Zimmerman stayed in his car Trayvon would be alive, and I think being able to show he was provoking an unnecessary confrontation that resulted in Trayvon's death would be enough to convict on involuntary manslaughter.

    The calls to repeal stand your ground laws in the wake of the verdict are absolutely stupid on several levels though.

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #54 - August 31, 2013, 09:29 PM

    This one gave me a chuckle…

    http://vimeo.com/20261317
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #55 - August 31, 2013, 10:03 PM

    Couldn't prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. But if the special prosecutor and those who appointed her hadn't been political cowards and actually charged him appropriately with involuntary manslaughter (which probably should have been the charge from day one) I think that would have been pretty easy to prove. Had Zimmerman stayed in his car Trayvon would be alive, and I think being able to show he was provoking an unnecessary confrontation that resulted in Trayvon's death would be enough to convict on involuntary manslaughter.

    The calls to repeal stand your ground laws in the wake of the verdict are absolutely stupid on several levels though.


    I agree with your sentiments.

    Stand your ground laws are actually rather stupid and are prone to abuse.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #56 - August 31, 2013, 11:50 PM

    Um I wasn't arguing against stand your ground laws I was arguing against reactionary appeal of stand your ground laws. Ultimately Zimmerman didn't walk because of stand your ground, he walked because he wasn't charged appropriately.

    fuck you
  • Hip Hop and Rape Culture
     Reply #57 - September 03, 2013, 07:56 AM

    For Women,Love and Hip-hop,A reflection eternal by Aja-Monet

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
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