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 Topic: The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women

 (Read 19966 times)
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  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #30 - April 11, 2013, 06:47 PM

    WTF with #5?  I meant exactly what I said.

    Women should be their own heroes.  Don't you think?

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #31 - April 11, 2013, 06:52 PM

    I tell women the same thing.  If you are broken, no one else can fix you but yourself and until you can stand strong on your own for a micro second without bouncing from one man to the next....don't date.

    I am going to be 40 years old very soon, my dear, and that opinion of mine formed over a looong time.

    I have NEVER, NEVER seen one solid wholesome relationship develop between a man and a woman as the result of a "rescue operation".

    This is my personal experience and my firm opinion. 

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #32 - April 11, 2013, 06:54 PM

    I'm not saying she uses the man for support. I'm saying what if she doesn't have the people around her, so she gets herself up, just doesn't have that great family or friends because the people around her are arseholes, or her life circumstances left her unable to make those number of friends for now for evidence that she's 'normal', that automatically places her in the 'broken' zone and men stay away?

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #33 - April 11, 2013, 06:57 PM

    So a woman who happens to have a shitty past or whatever, and for whatever reasons doesn't have supportive people around her, 'men stay away from her' is your answer?


    I think she meant to say that men shouldn't take advantage of girls who've just broken up with someone (or having a tough time) and are vulnerable to wolfish approaches (as in one night stands) by some of us guys. Or no?

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #34 - April 11, 2013, 06:59 PM

    She also said:

    Quote
    pick someone who has a strong group of support in her life, parents, friends coworkers that all seem to really like her and care for her. if she is emotionally healthy, can split her time well between you and her friends, has interests, hobbies, goals and hell, maybe does volunteer work...that is a good sign that she is well adjusted and emotionally mature.


    This is what I was talking about.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #35 - April 11, 2013, 07:01 PM

    I'm not trying to strike a personal chord here, Stardust.

    There are plenty of men out there who have issues as well and who should NOT be carrying it over into relationships, but often times do.  "Love" and the concept of it  often appears as a delusional "cure all" for the voids in our lives.  It is my experience and observation that nothing can fill that void BUT YOURSELF.  Reigns true for both men AND women.

    I was speaking to MEN here because this was an advice thread for them.


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #36 - April 11, 2013, 07:02 PM

    yeah minimow, that too.  right.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #37 - April 11, 2013, 07:07 PM

    Quote
    pick someone who has a strong group of support in her life, parents, friends coworkers that all seem to really like her and care for her.


    Well yeah that's a very dubious thing to say.

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #38 - April 11, 2013, 07:22 PM

    I'm not trying to strike a personal chord here, Stardust.

    There are plenty of men out there who have issues as well and who should NOT be carrying it over into relationships, but often times do.  "Love" and the concept of it  often appears as a delusional "cure all" for the voids in our lives.  It is my experience and observation that nothing can fill that void BUT YOURSELF.  Reigns true for both men AND women.

    I was speaking to MEN here because this was an advice thread for them.




    Yes, and your advice to men is to stay away from women who don't have evidence of 'normality' through the number of supportive friends and family she has.

    Everybody has issues from some angle and degree or another, and as long as they know that the issues don't get solved by love then that's the important thing. That shouldn't mean they be damned to be single.  We all have our baggage. It's a part of being in a relationship that you accept them as a whole person including their struggles, but you be mature by knowing it's not something one can cure the other of, and be open about so you both know what you're getting into.


    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #39 - April 11, 2013, 07:23 PM

    I meant to return to this thread because I actually thought it was a great idea, also made me LOL when I saw it pop up, especially since there had been some tension based on a couple of other threads.  So anyway, kudos to you for easing the tension happymurtad.   Afro

    I don't think there is much that needs to be understood about women or men, we are all so unique and require different things, and even those things change as we age.

    She might want you to be macho when she is in her 'attraction to bad boys' phase, she might grow out of that and start wishing you were just a little bit softer and less macho.  The reverse could happen, you just can't ever be sure since people change. She might never have liked the 'macho' thing and saw it as just too chauvinistic, might have preferred someone in touch with all the parts of himself, she might like them tall, short, athletic, cuddly, whatever, it's all changeable, it's not static.

    We are all just humans, friends stay friends, or grow out of their friendships much like relationships do.

    The core of this thread though, or at least what i would say about this forum, and of course for beginning to adopt that view in the real world, is to understand that.  To understand that some girls will hate the leering, and some will like it, some won't care about misogynistic comments, because they themselves are products of their society, and some will be thinking out of that box and not appreciate it.

    I guess its about what you want to be as a person.  Are you becoming enlightened, are you thinking out of the box, have you begun to understand that commenting on every womans body might give the women around you a standard they can't fulfill and allow it to damage their own view of themselves?  are you aware of how words can be used to continue to propound stereotypical myths about women, and aware that calling it a joke doesn't make it less so?  Do you want to change that?  do you want to see a world in which you know your daughter can grow up, and cross the road wearing what she wants without being told she was asking for it?

    Compare your view on women to your view of muslims, in the sense that you have freed yourself from Islam, you would be angered to still be under the yoke of it  You already understand that muslims are conditioned, you already understand that not every muslim is a specific way.  

    You get angry and understand that when muslim women say "it's my choice to wear the hijab", that they have no real choice.  You 'get' that they are victims even when they scream they are not, because you have freed yourself from that mental slavery.

    But this other prison, the one in which many women still have to dress a certain way, in which only their body and their youth is of appeal, or men view them in terms of their use for sex and dismiss them as anything above that (of course not saying all men, just like I'm not saying all women want jacob from twilight).  How is it that you still help the wardens of that prison women find themselves in?

    That you don't stop and think "should I get hung up on the weight of the female rapist in this story being fat, or can I be more than that"...or "this muslimah bikini model, is the only thing worthy about her, a thread about how bangable she is, and long she is worthy of being banged for".

    Does this matter you?  are you interested in working towards a world, in which not only muslims get freedom to leave Islam, but to know that the women in your life, mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, loved ones all, have the freedom to be themselves as much as the freedom you longed for when you left Islam.

    Because if it does, then that's the only view you need to adopt.  Not a list of what women want.

    That's certainly all I'm asking for.  

    This applies in reverse I know.  Men do have a masculine standard they must adhere too, there are penalties for stepping out of that.

    But this is what makes it like leaving Islam, we all face a penalty for that, what makes that battle more worthy than this one?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #40 - April 11, 2013, 07:36 PM

    It's just my opinion.  Every relationship is a gamble, no matter what the circumstances are.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #41 - April 11, 2013, 07:42 PM

    I meant to return to this thread because I actually thought it was a great idea, also made me LOL when I saw it pop up, especially since there had been some tension based on a couple of other threads.  So anyway, kudos to you for easing the tension happymurtad.   Afro

    I don't think there is much that needs to be understood about women or men, we are all so unique and require different things, and even those things change as we age.

    She might want you to be macho when she is in her 'attraction to bad boys' phase, she might grow out of that and start wishing you were just a little bit softer and less macho.  The reverse could happen, you just can't ever be sure since people change. She might never have liked the 'macho' thing and saw it as just too chauvinistic, might have preferred someone in touch with all the parts of himself, she might like them tall, short, athletic, cuddly, whatever, it's all changeable, it's not static.

    We are all just humans, friends stay friends, or grow out of their friendships much like relationships do.

    The core of this thread though, or at least what i would say about this forum, and of course for beginning to adopt that view in the real world, is to understand that.  To understand that some girls will hate the leering, and some will like it, some won't care about misogynistic comments, because they themselves are products of their society, and some will be thinking out of that box and not appreciate it.

    I guess its about what you want to be as a person.  Are you becoming enlightened, are you thinking out of the box, have you begun to understand that commenting on every womans body might give the women around you a standard they can't fulfill and allow it to damage their own view of themselves?  are you aware of how words can be used to continue to propound stereotypical myths about women, and aware that calling it a joke doesn't make it less so?  Do you want to change that?  do you want to see a world in which you know your daughter can grow up, and cross the road wearing what she wants without being told she was asking for it?

    Compare your view on women to your view of muslims, in the sense that you have freed yourself from Islam, you would be angered to still be under the yoke of it  You already understand that muslims are conditioned, you already understand that not every muslim is a specific way.  

    You get angry and understand that when muslim women say "it's my choice to wear the hijab", that they have no real choice.  You 'get' that they are victims even when they scream they are not, because you have freed yourself from that mental slavery.

    But this other prison, the one in which many women still have to dress a certain way, in which only their body and their youth is of appeal, or men view them in terms of their use for sex and dismiss them as anything above that (of course not saying all men, just like I'm not saying all women want jacob from twilight).  How is it that you still help the wardens of that prison women find themselves in?

    That you don't stop and think "should I get hung up on the weight of the female rapist in this story being fat, or can I be more than that"...or "this muslimah bikini model, is the only thing worthy about her, a thread about how bangable she is, and long she is worthy of being banged for".

    Does this matter you?  are you interested in working towards a world, in which not only muslims get freedom to leave Islam, but to know that the women in your life, mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, loved ones all, have the freedom to be themselves as much as the freedom you longed for when you left Islam.

    Because if it does, then that's the only view you need to adopt.  Not a list of what women want.

    That's certainly all I'm asking for.  

    This applies in reverse I know.  Men do have a masculine standard they must adhere too, there are penalties for stepping out of that.

    But this is what makes it like leaving Islam, we all face a penalty for that, what makes that battle more worthy than this one?



    Just got my nomination for post of the month.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #42 - April 11, 2013, 08:41 PM

    I tell women the same thing.  If you are broken, no one else can fix you but yourself and until you can stand strong on your own for a micro second without bouncing from one man to the next....don't date.

    I am going to be 40 years old very soon, my dear, and that opinion of mine formed over a looong time.

    I have NEVER, NEVER seen one solid wholesome relationship develop between a man and a woman as the result of a "rescue operation".

    This is my personal experience and my firm opinion. 

    Bloody good advice, for anyone (male or female). Afro Yes, it will piss some people off. It's still bloody good advice.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #43 - April 11, 2013, 08:51 PM

    Quote
    Bloody good advice, for anyone (male or female). Afro Yes, it will piss some people off. It's still bloody good advice.


    whewwww!  *wipes brow*

    and just when I was starting to think that I was just an insensitive a**hole

    thanks, Chewbacca   Wink

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #44 - April 11, 2013, 08:52 PM

    You are an insensitive asshole. That's why you can give good advice. Cheesy

    Before anyone else gets pissed, this stuff is simple. If you are expecting a lover to rescue you from yourself, it most likely will turn to shit. Ditto if you are thinking you can rescue a prospective lover from themselves.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #45 - April 11, 2013, 08:56 PM

    I blame life.  It sculpted me this way.


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #46 - April 11, 2013, 08:58 PM

    You're both horrible people. I see exactly what you're doing. I wasn't referring to the 'get cured by love' mistakes people make in my posts. I was referring to the 'look for women with many friends and great family' bit as evidence that she's perfectly normal person.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #47 - April 11, 2013, 09:02 PM

    Yeah that bit could have be better phrased. Better way of putting it would be "avoid getting involved with anyone who needs a relationship".

    And yes, we're both horrible. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #48 - April 11, 2013, 09:41 PM

    For those dishing out dating advice,you do realize that this thread is about how a man should interact with women in his life and here as well without being a sexist prick,not dating advice which is kinda subjective IMO.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #49 - April 11, 2013, 09:44 PM

    Well, according to the title it's just about understanding people who are a bit different and mysterious in some ways.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #50 - April 12, 2013, 07:15 AM

    One weird thing about women is they like talking about stuff. Took me a while to twig to that one. I mean blokes like talking about stuff too, but women will often start talking about how they feel about something without expecting solutions.

    This is quite the mind-boggling shit for a bloke. When a bloke is pissed about something he'll talk about it, but usually only because he wants a solution. Often doesn't work that way with women, which can lead to some confusion.

    Fortunately, there's an easy solution. All you have to do is shut the fuck up and listen. Once you get the hang of it, it's the easiest kudos ever. It's amazing how cool and wise some people will think you are if you don't say a bloody thing. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #51 - April 12, 2013, 11:56 AM

    Quote
    One weird thing about women is they like talking about stuff. Took me a while to twig to that one. I mean blokes like talking about stuff too, but women will often start talking about how they feel about something without expecting solutions.

    This is quite the mind-boggling shit for a bloke. When a bloke is pissed about something he'll talk about it, but usually only because he wants a solution. Often doesn't work that way with women, which can lead to some confusion.

    Fortunately, there's an easy solution. All you have to do is shut the fuck up and listen. Once you get the hang of it, it's the easiest kudos ever. It's amazing how cool and wise some people will think you are if you don't say a bloody thing. grin12


    Absolutely, 100% SPOT ON.

    I remember one day where I was complaining to my man about a particular situation with my parents that was frustrating me.  When I was done bitching about it, he had already figured out a three step solution to the problem and immediately started in about how I could fix it 

    My reaction?  I got so mad I wanted to kick him in the face. 

    In hindsight, to this very day, I can't understand or explain why I had a reaction like that.  I really do feel sorry for men sometimes.  They got it rough.


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #52 - April 12, 2013, 12:43 PM

    I think the difference is that (many) women want you to hear them out and acknowledge the severity of the situation they are trying to get off their chest. When you go into “solve” mode, essentially what you are saying is “Ahh, it’s not that bad. See, here’s a solution. What are you so worked up for?” It ends up undermining their feelings and showing that you didn’t really connect with them.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #53 - April 12, 2013, 12:59 PM

    ^ I dunno. Sure, I vent sometimes but a suggested solution for my problem/s wouldn't elicit a negative response. I don't get that wacko
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #54 - April 12, 2013, 04:26 PM

    Ex-Muslim men: cheer up. At least you're no longer obliged to face the consequences of treating ignorance of the opposite sex as a virtue.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #55 - April 12, 2013, 04:34 PM

    heh.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #56 - April 12, 2013, 04:38 PM

    Ex-Muslim men: cheer up. At least you're no longer obliged to face the consequences of treating ignorance of the opposite sex as a virtue.

    Huh! .. what are you talking toor?    Ex-muslim guys are not crying about  this thread.. And why would they need to care about this thread?

    This thread says  " it is  the guide for " Idiot ex-Muslim man "   NOT  for ex-Muslim man..  Cheesy Cheesy  


    anyway who started this thread??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #57 - April 13, 2013, 03:09 PM

    My experiences with being a man will undoubtedly differ from Os's experience or Abood's experience. Similarly, my experience with being an American will differ from Tabby's, and my experience with being black will differ from Al-alethia's. And yet, in all of those cited examples, there will be experiences that overlap and things that we share in common. I'd hate to see us get to a point where we are unwilling to share our perspectives based on those experiences for fear of falling into generalization. Indeed, what this conversation proves is that we are not all the same, and that is what makes us interesting. The different ways that we experience and see the world can offer insight to others with different backgrounds and ideas. That is why I started this particular thread. I'd hate to see that conversation stifled.
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #58 - April 14, 2013, 02:27 AM

    From my experience, males often have a tendency to feel they should come up with their own solutions whenever a woman mentions something she's finding problematic. This is not always a useful tendency, for several possible reasons, one of which is that sometimes she's just venting.   

     

    oook. I'm confused now  Huh?

    How do you tell if a woman is just venting or if she wants your help to solve a problem? 

    Is it worth asking or just something you learn by experience after having been in a relationship long enough ??

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women
     Reply #59 - April 14, 2013, 06:24 AM

    My 2c: Women are perfectly capable of asking for ideas if they want to hear them. If you're not asked to suggest solutions, she's probably venting.

    But sure, if in doubt you can always ask. That works too.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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