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 Topic: Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker

 (Read 17203 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     OP - May 03, 2013, 08:39 AM

    My local paper's a bit of a rag that's committed to finding and producing news on the cheap, but it seems that they've got a story, for once. Partial quote:

    Quote
    A Cambridge lecturer is facing criticism after describing homosexuality as an “inherent aberration” in a YouTube video.

    Tim Winter, a director of studies (DoS) at Wolfson College, Cambridge, also said gay people were “ignorant” in the clip recorded at least 15 years ago.

    In other videos on YouTube and the internet, he calls homosexuality “inherently ugly” and says gay people are “ignorant people who don’t know what their bodies are for”.

    The 53-year-old said he no longer held the opinions expressed in the clip.

    He said: “I have explained to the students that the YouTube clip they understandably objected to was at least 15 years old, and represented views I no longer hold.”

    source.

    No doubt this will rile his Salafi opposition that much further.. which is probably a good thing. That said, I wonder what his current views actually are.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #1 - May 03, 2013, 08:43 AM

    Even for 15 years ago and him being in his late thirties, it's a pretty silly thing to say. However, if he has more sense now then I don't see why it would be a big deal.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #2 - May 03, 2013, 08:47 AM

    Well, perhaps. Then again, for a non-trivial number of Muslims, hatred of teh gay is part of the deen, so.. this may or may not be a big deal.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #3 - May 03, 2013, 08:50 AM

    My local paper's a bit of a rag that's committed to finding and producing news on the cheap, but it seems that they've got a story, for once. Partial quote:
    source.

    No doubt this will rile his Salafi opposition that much further.. which is probably a good thing. That said, I wonder what his current views actually are.


    There is another clip from 2011 in which he says the same stuff about homosexuality without a few choice frothing at the mouth phrases.

    Also he's never repudiated what he said it writing or in speech (as far as I know) and allowed the film to be disseminated and sold.

    Caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #4 - May 03, 2013, 08:58 AM

    Via @CEMB_Forum on Twitter, who spotted the original story:

    http://cambridge.tab.co.uk/2013/05/01/inexplicable-aberration-cam-lecturer-slates-homosexuality/

    Well done, guys  Afro
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #5 - May 03, 2013, 09:04 AM

     Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #6 - May 03, 2013, 09:15 AM

    Hard luck Timothy,  The Daily Mail is on it too.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318169/Muslim-Cambridge-University-theology-lecturer-Tim-Winter-says-gay-ultimate-inversion.html

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #7 - May 03, 2013, 09:44 AM

    He is plain nasty - attacks feminism here, does the game of saying Darwin said something it did not.

    He needs to be asked more questions, about equality, about evolution..

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/family2.htm

    Quote
    The secular mind may be too witless to notice, but to religious people the New Social Doctrines are fast acquiring the look of a new religion. The twentieth century's great liberationisms often feel like powerful sublimations of the religious drive, as the innate yearning for freedom from worldly ties and the straitjacket of the self becomes strangely transmuted into a great convulsion against restrictions on personal freedom.

    In this sense, the politically-correct West is an intensely religious society. It has its dogmas and theologians, its saints, martyrs and missionaries, and, with the arrival of speech-codes on American campuses, a well-developed theory of the suppression of blasphemy.


    Did he start this atheism is a religion bollocks?


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #8 - May 03, 2013, 09:48 AM

    I know him as Abdul Hakim Murad, isn't he related to Hasan from this forum?
    Along with Hamza Yusuf, he represents the acceptable face of Islam that many Muslims living in the west feel comfortable with.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #9 - May 03, 2013, 09:53 AM

    It is OK to feel comfortable with this?

    Quote
    One of the most characteristic liberationisms of this century has been feminism. Divided into a myriad tendencies, some cautious and reasoned, others wandering into unimaginable territories of witchcraft and lesbianism,


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #10 - May 03, 2013, 10:01 AM

    I would attack him for his clear fascism.


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #11 - May 03, 2013, 10:21 AM

    Is there a legit reason why anti-feminists always associate feminism with lesbianism?
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #12 - May 03, 2013, 10:23 AM

    Probably my favourite Pat Robertson quote:
    Quote
    Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

    Completely insane Cheesy
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #13 - May 03, 2013, 11:02 AM

    My gaydar is going nuts.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #14 - May 03, 2013, 11:54 AM



    Any criticism from the Daily Mail would be quite funny. I mean, it's not like they ever sacked Jan Moir for some old-fashioned gay-bashing on their pages back in 2009.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #15 - May 03, 2013, 12:15 PM

    Actually come to think of it Tim Winter may fit in with the Daily Mail on this issue.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #16 - May 03, 2013, 12:40 PM

    It is OK to feel comfortable with this?



    Many converts to Islam, like many Muslims, are very clear and unapologetic about their strict reactionary social beliefs.

    What is painful to them is those beliefs being scrutinised and commented on and criticised.

    Its a real circus trying to reconcile reactionary beliefs with rhetoric of progressive tolerance. It can only go on so long before it snaps and becomes self evident. Some on the Left often feel inhibited from pointing out the obvious for fear of being thought of as Islamophobic (and some Muslims make full use of this inhibition) - but even the Left can't cover up the absurdity of reactionary beliefs like this. Something has to give eventually, and the farce exposes itself.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #17 - May 04, 2013, 06:10 PM


    Transcript of the speech which keeps getting taken down from youtube and vimeo

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24040.msg687402;topicseen#new


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #18 - May 05, 2013, 10:14 PM



    Its all part of a 'liberal elite' far right persecution of Islam

    Those who call out homophobic bigotry are like Breivik and Le Pen

    What a guy


    ++++++

    © Abdal-Hakim Murad, 5th May 2013

    Allahumma salli ala sayyidina Muhammadin wa-alihi wa-sahbihi wa-sallim

    As-salamu alaykum.

    The recent inquisition directed against me and by implication all Qur’anically faithful Muslims triggered by two YouTube clips has started a debate among Muslims themselves about what I actually said and believe. This note is an explanation of my position, since every Muslim has the right to know.

    I begin by apologising to Muslims for having placed us once again in the tabloid firing-line, and given ammunition to the anti-Islamic BNP and the EDL.

    I have stated publicly that I withdraw the comments I made in the first clip, which was recorded at a small Rihla in 1995. The clip was uploaded by IslamOnDemand three days ago as part of their policy of making some of their old material available to the Umma. I was not consulted about the release of this material. However I am not holding the brother responsible; in fact he is a faithful revert servant of the scholars.

    However the clip caused consternation when somehow it was forwarded to students at my college in Cambridge, and they lodged a complaint.

    When I looked at the clip I saw a young man ranting. It was probably the worst thing I have ever done, tricked out with dubious science and many errors, and presented in a very aggressive style which is alien to the manner I now use. My views, knowledge and style have mutated in 17 years. So I asked IslamOnDemand to take it off YouTube, and they did this.

    I believe – and Allah is my witness – that I was right, in Sharia, and considering the maslaha of the Muslims, to dissociate myself from the lecture and to apologise. How does it serve the interests of da’wa to offend? Those who say I should not have apologised should ask why we should gratuitously offend others, whoever they are. And the basic information in the lecture was unreliable or dubious, to say the least.

    The more recent DeenIntensive clip, known to its detractors as the ‘TwoTube’ clip, is much closer to my views, and I believe gives a more authentic account of the Sharia wisdom in this issue. It can be misunderstood but it is entirely different from the earlier clip.

    The key point is this: mercy and understanding are better than recrimination. I have seen this in my various opportunities to work with Muslims with this orientation who have come to me. Many of our khatibs are adopting a language of hate, but these people will not respond well to this. The inclination is not a sin, since an intention that is not acted upon is not sinful. In fact, as the ‘TwoTube’ clip states, such a person who struggles with his inclination will be rewarded. Perhaps he will reach Paradise before you and me.

    But the acting-out of the desire is a sin: this is known by ijma and to deny it is fisq. In this we agree with the great majority of classical orthodox believers in other religions. We should not be intimidated and bullied into failing to state this ruling.

    Ours is an age which increasingly finds it hard to understand a message of dignity, restraint, and sacrifice. Instead, the age favours hedonism. Muslims in the West must witness to the truth that hedonism does not bring happiness; happiness, which is every human’s birthright, comes from surrendering to the commands of Heaven.

    Those of you who are shocked by the violence of the campaign against those who stand up for our teachings should take a sobering political lesson from the whole episode. Anders Breivik was strongly pro-gay. So was Pim Fortuyn. So is Marie Le Pen. Much of Europe is now rushing to embrace a new far-right Islamophobia in which the ‘alternative sexualities’ issue is used as a tool to demonise us. The liberal elites have said nothing about this. Instead of worrying about the far-right millions who want to deport us, they hyperventilate when a Muslim peacefully states his opposition to a particular sexual practice, without calling for any kind of persecution.

    In the face of this inequality, we should calmly stand firm, and remember that right-thinking people will look at the contrast, and will choose their lifestyles accordingly. All this is a test from Allah, which means that we should look for what is good in it for us.

    A brother in New York has emailed me to say this: ‘We must count these persecutions as blessings, since they are totally unmerited. Today, just to be alive, if you are a Believer, counts as an act of zuhd, replacing the voluntary prayers and fastings of zuhhad and awliya of previous times.’

    May Allah make us firm in our love and proclamation of the Qur’an and Sunna, which are our true, unchanging and unfaltering lights in this age of darkness.

    http://abdullahalandalusi.com/2013/05/05/sheikh-abdul-hakim-murad-falls-victim-to-the-hypocrisy-of-liberal-tolerance/

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #19 - May 05, 2013, 10:44 PM

    TL/DR: "Help, help, I'm being persecuted!"

    Seriously, I think this paragraph should haunt him for a very long time. Tone deaf and self-pitying, it reads all too much like a prolonged goodbye to his status as a respectable Muslim interlocutor.

    Quote
    Those of you who are shocked by the violence of the campaign against those who stand up for our teachings should take a sobering political lesson from the whole episode. Anders Breivik was strongly pro-gay. So was Pim Fortuyn. So is Marie Le Pen. Much of Europe is now rushing to embrace a new far-right Islamophobia in which the ‘alternative sexualities’ issue is used as a tool to demonise us. The liberal elites have said nothing about this. Instead of worrying about the far-right millions who want to deport us, they hyperventilate when a Muslim peacefully states his opposition to a particular sexual practice, without calling for any kind of persecution.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #20 - May 05, 2013, 10:48 PM

    That really is an insane paragraph. His brains must be overheating in the pressure cooker world he inhabits.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #21 - May 05, 2013, 10:52 PM

    Quote
    Those of you who are shocked by the violence of the campaign against those who stand up for our teachings ......................

    Ok, so can he please tell us exactly how many Muslims have been killed by this horrendously "violent" campaign?

    If he's on Twitter, perhaps CEMB could ask him to clarify this point. If no deaths or injuries have occurred, perhaps he would like to retract the claim.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #22 - May 05, 2013, 10:58 PM

    The statement is on his site

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/bayan.htm


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #23 - May 05, 2013, 11:03 PM

    Ok, so can he please tell us exactly how many Muslims have been killed by this horrendously "violent" campaign?

    If he's on Twitter, perhaps CEMB could ask him to clarify this point. If no deaths or injuries have occurred, perhaps he would like to retract the claim.


    Its just part of the hysterical hissy fits that are thrown when da'wah-gandists are caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #24 - May 05, 2013, 11:05 PM

    So basically he's a homophobic bigot that has retracted his statements only after being pressured to do so by others.

    Stating that homosexual acts are "evil" is still condescending and hateful so I don't get how he feels he is not offending others anymore.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #25 - May 05, 2013, 11:09 PM

    Its just part of the hysterical hissy fits that are thrown when da'wah-gandists are caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

    Yes I know that. I was just thinking you could have some fun with it. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #26 - May 06, 2013, 12:46 AM

    Anders Breivik was strongly pro-gay. So was Pim Fortuyn. So is Marie Le Pen.

    Marine ? I think you ought to go tell that to the FN voters ! Poor boys and girls don't seem to know, if you ask me whistling2. Especially on those days of gay marriage laws dance.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #27 - May 06, 2013, 09:15 AM



    Quote
    Those of you who are shocked by the violence of the campaign against those who stand up for our teachings should take a sobering political lesson from the whole episode. Anders Breivik was strongly pro-gay. So was Pim Fortuyn. So is Marie Le Pen. Much of Europe is now rushing to embrace a new far-right Islamophobia in which the ‘alternative sexualities’ issue is used as a tool to demonise us. The liberal elites have said nothing about this. Instead of worrying about the far-right millions who want to deport us, they hyperventilate when a Muslim peacefully states his opposition to a particular sexual practice, without calling for any kind of persecution.

    A brother in New York has emailed me to say this: ‘We must count these persecutions as blessings, since they are totally unmerited. Today, just to be alive, if you are a Believer, counts as an act of zuhd, replacing the voluntary prayers and fastings of zuhhad and awliya of previous times.’


    Wow, just wow. How utterly pathetic. Muslims have got to have the biggest persecution complex known to man; it's a religion of eternal butthurt and victimology. I can't believe he brings Breivik and Fortuyn into this Roll Eyes 
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #28 - May 06, 2013, 12:11 PM

    ^

    "Common your not letting us hit atheists and homosexuals with a stick anymore ?!?"

    PERSECUTION  !!

     Roll Eyes

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #29 - May 06, 2013, 12:59 PM

    Is there a word for the fear of rationality, science, equality, justice, humanity?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »