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Theme Changer

 Topic: Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK

 (Read 7274 times)
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  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     OP - May 16, 2013, 08:26 PM

    Quote
    The Oxford grooming ring was promoted by imams who encourage followers to think white women deserve to be “punished”, an Islamic leader has claimed.

    Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

    Earlier this week seven members of a child sex ring from Oxford were found guilty of forcing under age girls to commit acts of "extreme depravity".

    By Hayley Dixon10:33AM BST 16 May 2013
    The Oxford grooming ring was promoted by imams who encourage followers to think white women deserve to be “punished”, an Islamic leader has claimed.

    Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

    Earlier this week seven members of a child sex ring from Oxford were found guilty of forcing under age girls to commit acts of "extreme depravity".

    RELATED ARTICLES
    Child sex gang guilty of grooming and gang-raping vulnerable girls
    Oxford grooming ring: council and police chiefs 'should consider their positions'
    Oxford sex gang: girls as young as 11 'forced into prostitution'
    Their victims, aged between 11 and 15, were groomed and plied with alcohol and drugs before being sexually assaulted and forced into prostitution. They targeted "out of control" teenagers.

    Dr Hargey said that the case brought shame on the city and the community and is a set back for cross community harmony.

    But worse still is the refusal to face up to its realities, he wrote in the Daily Mail.

    The activities of the Oxford sex ring are “bound up with religion and race” because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they “deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases”, Dr Hargey said.

    That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. “On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.”

    People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those “from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby”, he wrote.

    In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls.

    To pretend it is not a problem is the Islamic community is “ideological denial”, Dr Hargey said.

    “But then part of the reason this scandal happened at all is precisely because of such politically correct thinking. All the agencies of the state, including the police, the social services and the care system, seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes.

    “Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse.”

    The men were allowed, he said, to come and go from care homes by the authorities, and if the situation had been reversed with gangs of white men preying on Muslim teenagers ”the state's agencies would have acted with greater alacrity.”

    True Islam preaches respect for women but in mosques across the country a different doctrine is preached - “one that denigrates all women, but treats whites with particular contempt,” the Imam said.

    The men are taught that women are “second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority," he claims in the column.

    “The view of some Islamic preachers towards white women can be appalling. They encourage their followers to believe that these women are habitually promiscuous, decadent, and sleazy — sins which are made all the worse by the fact that they are kaffurs or non-believers.

    “Their dress code, from miniskirts to sleeveless tops, is deemed to reflect their impure and immoral outlook. According to this mentality, these white women deserve to be punished for their behaviour by being exploited and degraded.”

    Such cases can only be prevented in the future if Britain abandons the blinkers of political correctness, he concludes.


    Fuckers.

    Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html



    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #1 - May 16, 2013, 08:47 PM

    I don't think the behaviour of the offenders can be put down solely to this.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #2 - May 16, 2013, 09:44 PM

    Fuckers.

    Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

    ......................Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said



    well let us hear that from horse mouth..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HinjxXa7C4s

    off course we all know who that lady speaking in that tube is....  and let us also watch these
    four tubes on British Islam to see  Maajid Nawaz,  Taj Hargey  talk....
    Quote


    and who is the red lady bull in that panel?? well for British, Islam means it is Pakistani Islam.....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #3 - May 16, 2013, 10:02 PM

    I don't think the behaviour of the offenders can be put down solely to this.


    Go ahead and elaborate. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #4 - May 18, 2013, 12:50 PM

    BBC Radio 4 Question Time noted failure of Police etc to listen to victims and join up the dots.

    I think a lot more dots need joining up, including fgm and madrassahs.

    This programme noted the perpetrators had something else in common - their income was from the night time economy - minicab drivers and fast food stores, and the victims are very complex, troubled and troubling, in care.

    Police health and social services are still being reactive.  They are not really preventing stuff, for example by ensuring excellent education and opportunities for both the perpetrators and the victims.

    I was looking at education statistics a while back - the achievements of the Chinese community in comparison to others is of note.

    It does look as if some groups have habits that are extremely damaging.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #5 - May 19, 2013, 07:36 AM

    The sex grooming pedophile ring convicted in derby was predominantly white and non-muslim. Only one member was muslim. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root
    I think misogynistic muslim attitudes play a part but there are wider issues where it was muslims running the pack but I do for once think the reporting around this has been very skewed. The stats in this article are in interesting.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #6 - May 19, 2013, 01:07 PM

    The sex grooming pedophile ring convicted in derby was predominantly white and non-muslim. Only one member was muslim. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root
    I think misogynistic muslim attitudes play a part but there are wider issues where it was muslims running the pack but I do for once think the reporting around this has been very skewed. The stats in this article are in interesting.

    Hi mina .. glad to see you back in to the forum.. Indeed that is a good article... Well if not all good.. there is some good in it.

    So tell me what is good in that article and what is bad(/neglected) in it? and tell me why living  a godless life is immoral life?   It is your word.,  You coined that word ..."godless immoral life"..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #7 - May 19, 2013, 02:31 PM

    This is very true.
    I have attended lots of prayer meetings where the imams have actively encouraged all the male muslims to go out looking for vulnerable young white girls. They even asked if some of us could bring a few back for them. I found that suggestion unacceptable because i hate sharing.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #8 - May 20, 2013, 07:07 PM

    Hi mina .. glad to see you back in to the forum.. Indeed that is a good article... Well if not all good.. there is some good in it.

    So tell me what is good in that article and what is bad(/neglected) in it? and tell me why living  a godless life is immoral life?   It is your word.,  You coined that word ..."godless immoral life"..


    Goodness I had to go back to locate that phrase.

    Through the eyes of a Muslim as I was when I was at university (in belief if not practice), a godless life is an immoral life.  I was describing how i saw my life at that point and explaining the guilt. The way I was acting was in direct contradiction to the morals I was taught to be right and correct- hence living a godless immoral life. I now accept that the two are not entwined. How does that link in to what's here? I'm curious to why you have raised it here?

    Re article- didn't say it was good- just interesting and topical given the discussion here- to draw your own conclusions as I did mine which is simply the wider reporting of this has been skewed  although it takes nothing a way from the "Muslim factor" where it does come into play,
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #9 - August 10, 2013, 06:27 PM

    That is so fucked up. Religious backing to call evil good.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #10 - August 10, 2013, 07:40 PM

    QSE,

    I have enough respect for your intellect to know that you won't believe in this load of Islamaphobic bollocks.

    No Imam, even the most stupid, the most radical, would tell ppl to go out and find vulnerable young girls to groom.

    For the record, I believe anybody found guilty of abusing/grooming/having sex with a vulnerable under-21 years of age girl should face the death penalty, including the South Asian Muslims who were on trial earlier this year.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #11 - August 10, 2013, 07:43 PM

    Umm? Muhammad and Aisha?
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #12 - August 10, 2013, 07:56 PM

    Most of the imans I've known are pretty stupid. They have this Nazi mentality that honestly makes them see anyone who isn't musim as sub human.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #13 - August 10, 2013, 08:28 PM

    Umm? Muhammad and Aisha?


    One of the most enduring lies that were ever told by perverts who have a vested interest in perpetuating child-marriage.

    "There are really only three reasons to insist -- as so many do -- that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.

    There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad 'Abd al-Malik bin Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah -- The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed -- 12 years before her marriage -- and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.

    Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed. "



    "What's my bottom line? The age Aisha attained before she married the Prophet is one issue we have to put to rest -- for the sake of children everywhere. There is absolutely no question that Aisha was an adult when she consummated her marriage with Muhammad of her own free will, and she lived out her life in the earliest days of Islam the un-harassed and proudly participatory equal of everyone, just like every other man, woman or child under God. "
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #14 - August 10, 2013, 08:29 PM

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-david-liepert/islamic-pedophelia_b_814332.html
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #15 - August 10, 2013, 08:34 PM

    I can only go with the Nazi imans I've known that seem oh so prevalent. If you look at other people as sub human, less than you, in a way not real (because hey, god said we can enslave them and they're going to hell anyway so who cares?) then it does indeed paint a very bleak picture.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #16 - August 10, 2013, 08:38 PM

    QSE,

    Honestly, where have you ever seen Imams that paint other people as sub-human? Please don't quote fringe lunatics like Anjem Choudry.

    Show me credible, respectable mainstream Imams who hold/say racist, discriminatory beliefs or rhetoric.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #17 - August 10, 2013, 08:52 PM

    "Doctor" *cough cough* Zakir Naik. Said that if he learns someone he's speaking to is atheist he'll immediately walk away. Lest he catch something?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #18 - August 10, 2013, 08:53 PM

    Also supports the death penalty for those who leave islam according to this.

    http://trueslant.com/sadananddhume/2009/09/26/is-zakir-naik-a-moderate-muslim/

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #19 - August 10, 2013, 09:37 PM

    One of the most enduring lies that were ever told by perverts who have a vested interest in perpetuating child-marriage.

    "There are really only three reasons to insist -- as so many do -- that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.

    There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad 'Abd al-Malik bin Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah -- The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed -- 12 years before her marriage -- and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.

    Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed. "



    "What's my bottom line? The age Aisha attained before she married the Prophet is one issue we have to put to rest -- for the sake of children everywhere. There is absolutely no question that Aisha was an adult when she consummated her marriage with Muhammad of her own free will, and she lived out her life in the earliest days of Islam the un-harassed and proudly participatory equal of everyone, just like every other man, woman or child under God. "


    But Sahih ahadith is what makes Islam; second most important to the Quran. In an Islamic state, if you rejected an Authentic Hadith, then you'd probably be liable to be considered an apostate, or at the very least a heretic.

    Even if the wishy washy history of Islam (most of it written and changed by prevailing Islamic empires) does over ride the Sahih Ahadith that you don't like, I'd struggle to find a relationship between 52 year old Mo and 18 year old Aisha morally acceptable. We're talking about a time where women had few rights, so there would have been a lot more room for abuse and harm. Are you ok with this?

    But of course, the consensus among all four major schools is that Aisha was a 9 year old kid when Mo popped her, so this conversation is meaningless.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #20 - August 10, 2013, 09:53 PM

    I mean, if a Muslim wants to throw out Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim because their contents don't quite jibe with them, then I'd say that's a step in the right direction. I'd wonder what percentage of Islam you'd be left with at that point, though.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #21 - August 10, 2013, 10:02 PM

    Cut out all the parts of the quran you now are not true, impossible, immoral, and see how much you have left.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #22 - August 10, 2013, 10:38 PM

    Grooming girls from mostly foster/care homes has been going on since the seventies. In them days it was native (white) men mostly. The care homes were concentrated in the big cities plus Doncaster? - I read this in an Independent news report dated 19 late eighties - to mid-nineties, find it if I have to. Obviously like the rest of seventies predators picking were rich because plenty of people looked the other way (Savillesque). No doubt Asian men were also at it, in towns they resided in, but more of your individual abuser than its later gang version.

    I remember in the seventies there used to adverts warning of strange men, Charlie says etc. Them days the pervert would offer you the chance at looking at puppies in his boot. Fast forward to now/bit before it is drink and drugs, not puppies.

    Many people say that it is due to racial reasons that the police/authorities did not act, bollocks they had washed their hands of this problem when native men had been doing it twenty years before, probably because the kids got rights and no responsibilities, they (police) too saw them as casualties of society, worth not caring about because the girls did not care about themselves.

    Night-time economies/taxi do account for the over-representation in on street-grooming, more of a factor than perhaps racial heritage/culture. I know of many taxi-drivers who get propositioned. At weekends they have to safely see many drunk/partly clothed part-goers home. Though you have your bad apples and unlike native culture where it more individuistic than Asian culture which is more - can't think of an adjective - gang/family/social - them cowboys had posse(s)- mentality. Plus a business side. Don't think it is racism as they would do the same to muslim girls if they could get away with it, some have. Pussy is pussy whatever colour it is wrapped in. Asian nutters do things together, white nutters individually.

    Think the native perverts have evolved into grooming via other methods - step families/girlfriends kids/teachers ( I suppose there is a difference between opportunistic and those that are predators full-stop) or going online. At least they keep it off the streets.

    I refuse to believe the veracity of a claim that Imams worthy of the title in the UK who would promote this in his Majlis.  


    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #23 - August 10, 2013, 10:44 PM

    It's the fact that with other members of society they tend to be solitary. They know full well they will be looked at as villains, they know in some form or another it's wrong. It's why they work alone or in pairs.

    The reason this is more chilling in my opinion is that it's so accepted. Definitely in Europe it's so common to call non muslim women whores and just foster this thinking. The sad thing is it doesn't seem to be challenged. What chills me with this is both the fact it was so wide spread and so many people were in on it, and the reasoning behind it that absolves them of responsibility.

    Reasoning every time? The children are kaffir.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #24 - August 10, 2013, 10:56 PM

    It's the fact that with other members of society they tend to be solitary. They know full well they will be looked at as villains, they know in some form or another it's wrong. It's why they work alone or in pairs.

    The reason this is more chilling in my opinion is that it's so accepted. Definitely in Europe it's so common to call non muslim women whores and just foster this thinking. The sad thing is it doesn't seem to be challenged. What chills me with this is both the fact it was so wide spread and so many people were in on it, and the reasoning behind it that absolves them of responsibility.

    Reasoning every time? The children are kaffir.



    So the hundreds and thousands or tens of thousands of those caught in big stings when top child-porn sites get busted - those are not wide-spread? Doesn't chill you to your bone? That no one picked up the phone to ring the police?

    As for their reasoning every time ? That the children are kaffir, firstly muslim girls have been involved and can I ask you what was the reasoning for the native blokes in rings/gangs in the seventies and people like Jimmy Saville carrying out their crimes.

    And to describe them as children - lol - I see where this is going. I would check out the victims and the perpertrators respective IQ's.

    Note - All sex with under 16 year old girl and older bloke  - no matter what the circumsatnces it is like a rear-ender in insurance terms. Always the fault of the rear-ender, no excuses, doesn't matter that the driver in front missed a turn and slowed down. In both cases the moral - Keep your distance.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #25 - August 10, 2013, 11:05 PM

    I mean, if a Muslim wants to throw out Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim because their contents don't quite jibe with them, then I'd say that's a step in the right direction. I'd wonder what percentage of Islam you'd be left with at that point, though.


    Fair point.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #26 - August 10, 2013, 11:10 PM

    No I'm not saying that at all. When it comes to the wider abuse that goes on in the world it's a valid point, but on this specifically I made the point that the mentality it was okay because they're just kaffir is what chills me. The same way the KKK hanging a black man because he's just a black man chills me. It's the dehumanisation of it. I'm not for one minute saying abuse doesn't happen among the wider society. I'm also not saying for one minute the dehumanisation doesn't happen among non muslims. I'm saying, when I first heard about the Oxford case (which is what this thread is about), the Derby case, and all the other cases that involved men who happened to be muslim, when the motives came to light, when the texts and phone calls were shown to the public, that was my reaction.

    As to what you posted, there's nothing you've said I disagree with you on. I was posting my reaction when I first heard of the Oxford case only. If I seemed I was being prejudice to this group because of their religious background let me state quite firmly that's not the case.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #27 - August 10, 2013, 11:46 PM

    QSE - fair enough.

    The details laid are horrific and if this was your introduction to the world of street-grooming by mostly Pakistani's then I can understand your shock. Seriously though there are a lot more factors at play here. Those that have an axe to grind will highlight those that are more useful to them.

    This de-humanisation that you talk about - as far as grooming is concerned is it not the same as objectifying women/girls that some men of all colours do - like religious/racial de-humanisation need not be the central cause. The native groomer grooms because he is interested in sex with young teenagers, the same as the Pakistani groomer.

    There are those that first groom the 'child' and all pimps must dehumanise their stock, then you have the men that pay for it. If you believe me most times than not those men, the payers don't see it as dehumanising, in fact, fucked up as it is, they see their time with the girls as a girl-friend experience, a female that is cleaner than a prostitute.

    Though I might add that most muslim men (in name/not practising)only point of reference with white women is via porn/tv/media.

    I heard that there is a campaign that wants to restrict the age of porn actresses to over-25. I know it is off-topic but has anyone got any details about this, not been able to track it down on the net.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #28 - August 11, 2013, 02:50 AM

    I mean, if a Muslim wants to throw out Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim because their contents don't quite jibe with them, then I'd say that's a step in the right direction. I'd wonder what percentage of Islam you'd be left with at that point, though.


    That is a very simplistic way of looking at it and belies a lack of knowledge in 3ilmul hadeeth.

    A hadith is not considered sahih just because it is found in Bukhari or Muslim. That would turn Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim into infallible super-human scribes incapable of mistake. Although that would very much suit your "Islam is false because..." narrative, we Muslims do not believe in the infallibility of Bukhari and Muslim, both the men and the hadiths they collected and collated.

    There are many hadiths floating out there, some to be found in sahih books and classified as sahih that are plain ridiculous. Hadiths like drinking camel urine or a grown man being nursed by a grown woman.

    According the jumhoor of the ulema(concensus of all scholars), any hadith that is found to collide with human fitra is automatically rejected, regardless of how strong the chain of transmission is. Why? Because a creative liar can just as easily make up a hadith for whatever his heart desires and claim that it is sahih.

    So all of the hadiths stating that Aisha was 6 or 9 or 13 are fictitious and invented. They have no legitimacy because they collide with the human fitra(shay'un yatanaafa ma3al fitra).

    Sorry that I had to rain on your parade, but you're gonna have to find something else. Aisha was an adult in her 20s or late teens.

    Glad to be of service.
  • Imams encouraging child sex rings in the UK
     Reply #29 - August 11, 2013, 03:46 AM

    How does the fact the hadith say something you don't agree with on moral grounds invalidate it?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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