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 Topic: Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use

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  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     OP - June 10, 2013, 03:26 PM
    My new blog post  "Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use"

    http://sandbadbehzad.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/critics-of-islamare-often-accused-of.html

    Please feel free to comment.
    And if the wine you drink, the lips you press,
    End in the nothing all things end in -Yes -
    Then fancy while thou art, thou art but what
    Thou shalt be - nothing - Though shalt not be less.

    Khayyam
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #1 - June 10, 2013, 03:46 PM

    The word is used problematically sometimes by those who wish to impose a blasphemy taboo against criticism of Islam.

    Anti-Muslim bigotry is a better term to describe prejudice against Muslims.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #2 - June 10, 2013, 05:47 PM
    I think there is a strong interrelation between someone using the term "Islamophobia" frequently and being one gigantic dickhead. Let's leave it at that.
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #3 - June 10, 2013, 06:19 PM
    The thing is, if anybody who criticizes Islam is considered to be an "islamophobic", than Muslims might as well be considered christianophobic, judeophobic, hinduphobic, bouddhismophobic, atheistophobic, agnosticophobic, deistophobic... etc...

    I hate the word "islamophobic", this is just a bullshit with which some Muslims like to label anybody who criticizes Islam in order to make Islam untouchable, yet they have no problem criticizing and even "insulting" any other belief, dogma or ideology. Pure hypocrisy & double standards. Or maybe just heavy brainwashing.

    I am for freedom of speech, and think that any beliefs system should be critiquable. None of this system should beneficiate of a special protection like Islam does today by eliminating any opponent under the term "islamophobic".
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #4 - June 10, 2013, 08:31 PM
    Am I an Islamophobe if I state a fact?
    Fact: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and many other Muslim countries mandate death penalty for those who leave Islam.
    Fact: Non-Muslims are not allowed to celebrate their religious holidays in Saudi Arabia.
    Fact: Non-Muslims are not allowed to build their temples, churches in every Muslim country except Malaysia.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #5 - June 10, 2013, 11:52 PM
    You're not an islamophobe, you're someone who should "learn about Islam" and "read the quran" because "those are not true Muslims" and "those countries don't practice true Islam"  Roll Eyes
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #6 - June 11, 2013, 05:04 PM
    I don't see islamophobia as a criticism of islam or islamic scriptures. I see it when some people go "Muslims are all evil barbarians" or "We should bomb the living shit out of muslims countries, because muslims are evil and deserve it" or "Lets kill muslims" or "Muslims are all disgusting and should be hanged" or "Muslim people are shit and useless", which seems to be pretty frequent memes.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #7 - June 11, 2013, 07:04 PM
    That's the problem. You see it as meaning only that. Others deliberately conflate it with rational criticism of Islam. Anti Muslim bigotry is real. These issues need to be delineated. Too much muddying of the waters happens sometimes
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #8 - June 11, 2013, 08:01 PM
    Quote from: Pishte_Kooh on June 11, 2013, 05:04 PM
    I don't see islamophobia as a criticism of islam or islamic scriptures. I see it when some people go

    1). "Muslims are all evil barbarians" or "We should bomb the living shit out of muslims countries, because muslims are evil and deserve it"    or

    2).  "Lets kill muslims"  or

     3). "Muslims are all disgusting and should be hanged" or

    4).   "Muslim people are shit and useless", which seems to be pretty frequent memes.



    hello Pishte_Kooh... what you have written in those highlighted words is not phobia against Islam or even phobia about Muslims., but It is actually HATE against Muslims. And you  must educate those folks irrespective of the place or the forum..

    Could you please give links of  such posts either in CEMB or IN ANY  OTHER FORUMS..  I would like to join that forum..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #9 - June 12, 2013, 01:04 AM
    "Islamophobia" means different things to different people.

    I think even though it is a tool that can be used by tools, yet at the same time there are other tools that give the word meaning. Eg. Local politician who thinks halal sausages will convert people to Islam, cue x files music. I consider this Islamophobic and if the word didn't exist, bigoted.

    I'm gonna make my own check list on the spot:

    Quote
    Is it true?
    • Is it irrational?
    • Does it single out Muslims?
    • Does it create suspicion of Muslims?
    • Does it lead to a fear?
    (eg. being converted to Islam by eating something


    Um what else...yeah I think that's it. I'm gonna test out stories as I see them with my list.



    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #10 - June 12, 2013, 01:08 AM
    Effing list function  comp26
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #11 - June 12, 2013, 03:17 AM
    Jila, halal meat is haram in my religion. I don't want halal meat in my kids' school. Hindus and Sikhs are forbidden to eat halal meat. Serving only halal meat in shools violates the religous rights of Hindus and Sikhs. The problem is that any legitimate criticism of Muslims is portrayed as Islamophobia by Muslims and their apologists.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #12 - June 12, 2013, 09:48 AM
    To me the slaughter is a none issue. If the sikhs, hindus and non-muslims want meat they don't consider unethical, they could just request it.  Personally i eat meat of anykind, as long as it's hygienically prepared.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #13 - June 12, 2013, 10:08 AM
    Quote from: Ram on June 12, 2013, 03:17 AM
    Jila, halal meat is haram in my religion. I don't want halal meat in my kids' school. Hindus and Sikhs are forbidden to eat halal meat. Serving only halal meat in shools violates the religous rights of Hindus and Sikhs. The problem is that any legitimate criticism of Muslims is portrayed as Islamophobia by Muslims and their apologists.

    If your school is all Hindu why the frick do you need halal meat? There are cards handed out before school functions asking students to tick their food preferences and it has options like "halal" and "vegie".
    Now doesn't that sound like a much fairer approach than your "I'm so offended, ban all halal"?
    And are Hindus and Sikhs only banned from eating halal, or other meat? Can they eat kosher? What about FSM meat?
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #14 - June 12, 2013, 10:56 AM
    Quote from: Jila on June 12, 2013, 10:08 AM
    .................. What about FSM meat?


    huh! there is FSM meat??  I thought there is only  FSM sauce... Huh?

    Quote from: Ram on June 12, 2013, 03:17 AM
    Jila, halal meat is haram in my religion.

    prove it from your religious scriptures....

    Quote
    I don't want halal meat in my kids' school. Hindus and Sikhs are forbidden to eat halal meat.

    Not true..

    Quote
    Serving only halal meat in shools violates the religous rights of Hindus and Sikhs.

    No Hindu or Sikh objected for halal meat.. you  just don't like Muslims..

     
    Quote
    The problem is that any legitimate criticism of Muslims is portrayed as Islamophobia by Muslims and their apologists.


    what you did above was NOT legitimate criticism of Islam..  you are just  picking on Muslims and their eating and cooking methods.. that is the real problem..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #15 - June 12, 2013, 11:30 AM
    There is such a concept in hinduism and sikhism/buddhism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhatka

    However, halal meat might not pass its literal criteria. And to be honest it's a entirely stupid and unlegitimate greivance. No one is forcing anyone to buy halal meat., and big groups of people who want to eat meat that hasn't been slaughtered the halal/kosher way can just demand conventionally slaughtered meat. The procuration of halal meat comes from higher purchase of meat amongst muslims. So butchering industries just slaughter animals to cater to an emerging market, and they haven't quite cared about the grievances of animal right groups and hindus/sikhs.

    And to me this is stupid. If this is petty scornful grievance is the only thing "islam-critics" can bring to the table, then it's no valid criticism. I'm more concerned about islamists gaining a demographic foothold amongst muslims and harsh parts of sharia being applied, which have disasterous consequences. Not whether cows were butchered in a specific manner.

    This is something that has always alienated me from the debates of self-proclaimed "Islam-critics". Instead of actually criticizing concepts within islam that are important, they just repeat common bigotry and then pass it of as "criticism".  It's like those idiots who say "muslims are savage pedophiles", hide behind "islam criticism"  then complain that they're labelled Islamophobic and that their freedom of speech is violated.  This behavior strips real criticism of islam from any validity.  They make denounciation of legitimate criticism easy, since they use it to justify bigotry against muslims. The point is not to attack muslims, it's to show them the conceptual flaws within islam.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #16 - June 12, 2013, 12:00 PM
    Quote from: Pishte_Kooh on June 12, 2013, 11:30 AM
    There is such a concept in hinduism and sikhism/buddhism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhatka

    1). However, halal meat might not pass its literal criteria. And to be honest it's a entirely stupid and unlegitimate greivance. No one is forcing anyone to buy halal meat.,

    2). butchering industries just slaughter animals to cater to an emerging market, and they haven't quite cared about the grievances of animal right groups and hindus/sikhs.

    3). And to me this is stupid. If this is petty scornful grievance is the only thing "islam-critics" can bring to the table, then it's no valid criticism.

    4). I'm more concerned about islamists gaining a demographic foothold amongst muslims and harsh parts of sharia being applied, which have disasterous consequences. Not whether cows were butchered in a specific manner.

    This is something that has always alienated me from the debates of self-proclaimed "Islam-critics". Instead of actually criticizing concepts within islam that are important, they just repeat common bigotry and then pass it of as "criticism".  It's like those idiots who say "muslims are savage pedophiles", hide behind "islam criticism"  then complain that they're labelled Islamophobic and that their freedom of speech is violated.  This behavior strips real criticism of islam from any validity.  They make denounciation of legitimate criticism easy, since they use it to justify bigotry against muslims. The point is not to attack muslims, it's to show them the conceptual flaws within islam.

    I agree with many of your points except the first line  Pishte_Kooh.. Sorry i don't take wiki write up as the source for hindu or  sikh or any religious  scriptural source .

    Here is the website  that give all religious books from  their original source..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #17 - June 12, 2013, 01:08 PM
    Quote from: Jila on June 12, 2013, 01:04 AM
    Is it irrational?
    Does it single out Muslims?
    Does it create suspicion of Muslims?
    Does it lead to a fear?


    The funny thing about this list of definitions is that by parts of its metric many Islamic organisations, groups, and ideological schools fall foul of it.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #18 - June 12, 2013, 01:17 PM
    The 1997 Runnymede Trust report defined Islamophobia partly in this way :

    "Islam is seen as a political ideology and is used for political or military advantage"

    That would mean large swathes of modern Islam, political Islam, Islamism and Islamists are 'Islamophobic'

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #19 - June 12, 2013, 01:43 PM
    I've always thought since Xenophobia means 'a very human but irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange' Islamophobia would mean; 'a very human but irrational or unreasoned fear of Islam as a theology and/or ideology.'

    Some criticisms are Islamophobic if they are not constructive, factual and applied in equal measure to related theologies (such as Judaism and Christianity) as it just essentially isolating Islam and focusing a lot of hate towards it when it can be criticised in a fairer and dignified manner.

    However some commenters are right; there is sometimes dismissal of genuine concerns of Islam on the grounds that it is "Islamophobic" which is wrong to do.

    I guess it is about identifying which is which and avoiding the genuine Islamophobic stuff.
  • Re: Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #20 - June 12, 2013, 06:37 PM
    Quote from: Jila on June 12, 2013, 10:08 AM
    If your school is all Hindu why the frick do you need halal meat? There are cards handed out before school functions asking students to tick their food preferences and it has options like "halal" and "vegie".
    Now doesn't that sound like a much fairer approach than your "I'm so offended, ban all halal"?
    And are Hindus and Sikhs only banned from eating halal, or other meat? Can they eat kosher? What about FSM meat?

    Halal and Kosher meat should be banned in regular schools. Jews do not ask for Kosher meat in regular schools but Muslims make deamnds for halal meat. At the same time Muslims will not tolerate any non-Muslim in their institutions.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #21 - June 12, 2013, 07:35 PM
    As long as halal meat is not forced on those who object to eating it on moral or ethical grounds there isn't a problem Ram.

    And as long as accomodations for religious requirement meets a reasonableness test there is not a problem either way.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #22 - June 12, 2013, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: Ram on June 12, 2013, 06:37 PM
    ................At the same time Muslims will not tolerate any non-Muslim in their institutions.

    where?  what Muslim institution are  you talking  Mr. Ram?  Muslim Institutions?? you mean   Madrassas??  you are welcome to join..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psDBYGDSAIE

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqRNp2wAjYM

    who wants to send the kids over  there??

    Anyway  here is good work from some Muslim  guys..  islamic concern on halal meat
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #23 - June 12, 2013, 09:34 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on June 12, 2013, 08:36 PM
    where?  what Muslim institution are  you talking  Mr. Ram?  Muslim Institutions?? you mean   Madrassas??  you are welcome to join..

     

    Cheesy
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #24 - June 12, 2013, 11:30 PM
    Quote from: Ram on June 12, 2013, 06:37 PM
    Halal and Kosher meat should be banned in regular schools. Jews do not ask for Kosher meat in regular schools but Muslims make deamnds for halal meat. At the same time Muslims will not tolerate any non-Muslim in their institutions.

    What is a regular school? Public school?
    Quote
    Jews do not ask for Kosher meat in regular schools but Muslims make deamnds for halal meat

    Where did you get this info from? Would you like me to link you to anti semitic pages demanding that the "k" symbol be taken off all our food? Did you know it's on a tonne of "regular" products in the supermarket or have you not looked? It doesn't apply to only meat where you choose to go to a certain meat store, but products that everyone buys, like chocolate! All it takes is a lunatic to start an issue about it.
    Quote
    At the same time Muslims will not tolerate any non-Muslim in their institutions.

    Simply BS.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #25 - June 12, 2013, 11:34 PM
    Quote from: billy on June 12, 2013, 01:08 PM
    The funny thing about this list of definitions is that by parts of its metric many Islamic organisations, groups, and ideological schools fall foul of it.



    I don't understand. Can you write an example?
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #26 - June 12, 2013, 11:38 PM
    OK. Some of the definitions about attitudes that are deemed to be Islamophobic are actually promoted by some Islamic groups. Like the Runnymede definition I quoted. The idea that Islam is a political identity and a political movement is what Islamists do. The notion that Islam is a monolith is what Wahaabi and Salafis actually teach.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #27 - June 13, 2013, 12:30 AM
    Oh ok, yeah I get it.
    That is an internal struggle. Eg. A Muslim organisation splitting up into two new groups because the hardline members didn't like the Hamza Yusuf (heretic) influence and want a more salafi approach.
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #28 - June 13, 2013, 08:53 AM
    Quote from: Jila on June 12, 2013, 11:30 PM
    What is a regular school? Public school?Where did you get this info from? Would you like me to link you to anti semitic pages demanding that the "k" symbol be taken off all our food? Did you know it's on a tonne of "regular" products in the supermarket or have you not looked? It doesn't apply to only meat where you choose to go to a certain meat store, but products that everyone buys, like chocolate! All it takes is a lunatic to start an issue about it. Simply BS.

    Jila  I don't want to respond to your posts because of these rascals from far east.    Cheesy    They are trying their best to harass me    Huh?  Cry ., Even allah can not save me from them.

    Anyways.,  you see we have to realize here that  every one who is not a Muslim  and lives in Pakistan or has taste of Pakistani Mullahs and the goons around them will have similar views as that of Mr. Ram.  So I can not blame him for his posts.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamophobia is Wrong Word to Use
     Reply #29 - June 13, 2013, 02:31 PM
    Ram is just a hindu who hates muslims, end of story. If he could openly be violent towards muslims, he would do it. It's kind of funny, the same people who complain that muslims are intolerant(which a good proportion are), are obsessed with just muslims.
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