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Theme Changer

 Topic: Mehdi Hasan

 (Read 7350 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Mehdi Hasan
     OP - June 11, 2013, 10:27 AM

    I can't make my mind up about this guy. I know about his 'cattle' video and his views on abortion and am deeply opposed to both his stances on this,of course, however, he has also been quite good at coming forward and criticising many aspects of Islam and Islamism and saying stuff I am glad someone is saying.
    Yet,there is still something about the guy that leaves me uneasy.  Is he for real? Is it all smoke and mirrors, is he actually  the Derren Brown of Takkiyah ?

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #1 - June 11, 2013, 10:29 AM

    Please don't use the term 'taqqiya'.

    If you are in doubt about the provenance of the word watch this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZSJg1HQpc



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #2 - June 11, 2013, 10:45 AM

    Watched it. I accept your point.

    Besides that though, what are  your thoughts on my original question regards Hasan?

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #3 - June 11, 2013, 10:53 AM


    He puts about that ex-Muslims are akin to the EDL

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22740.0

    So he's not a fan of  us


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #4 - June 11, 2013, 11:42 AM

    He's a hack.

    And he's hilariously immature in any kind of debate.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #5 - June 11, 2013, 01:33 PM

    He presents himself as a lefty, but actually has some very right wings views ie he is anti-choice on abortion, he supports state censorship, he support of iranian theocracy etc
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #6 - June 11, 2013, 02:23 PM

    To me comes across as the progressive muslim archtype. Quick to dismiss major flaws in islam as misunderstandings and then to quick to jump on the bandwagon of anything remotely positive that comes out the islamic community.

    As a person, he does give off the vibe of someone who is very arrogant. Maybe he thinks his high level education gives his views on Islam more credence.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #7 - June 12, 2013, 04:21 AM

    He acts like hes a lefty when it suits him to look progressive, and turns down right Islamist when it suits him.   His article on homosexuality turned me off.   He is like Hamza only with an education and better at masking his true intentions.

    How progressive can you be when you read that non muslims are cattle or have mental issues and consider that book the word of God?

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #8 - June 12, 2013, 04:35 AM

    What's wrong with his article regarding homosexuality? It's typical liberal leftist tripe but what would you expect from a muslim? I've yet to meet a muslim on the more radical left end of the political spectrum...
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #9 - June 12, 2013, 04:43 AM

    What kinda "liberals" are you hanging with lol   Most support gay marriage and not only that but know that its a normal part of human sexuality.   

    You are right on one thing, there isnt a muslim that is really on the left, at least I havent seen one on the usual pundit circuit.

    Then again when have you seen a Muslim come out against anything in the quran? 

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #10 - June 12, 2013, 05:00 AM

    No no, I am aware of that. But the liberal left are generally unwilling to criticise existing institutions and power structures whereas the radical left (even if you think they are misguided) are.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #11 - June 12, 2013, 01:28 PM

    I don't particularly like him. His views on non-Muslims, abortion and homosexuality annoy me and his continuous defense of Islam in many areas is just desperate. However he is generally one of the better Muslims journalists/debaters and has at least shown some flexibility in his article talking about the deep issues of anti-semitism in the British Muslim communities - an issue which generally does not get debated enough.

    It's typical liberal leftist tripe


    I'm not sure why you think Left-liberals can't criticize existing institutions. I am one myself and from where I'm standing (although this could be seen as bias) I think we can see the flaws in many problems just like those on the right, centre-ground and radical wings. Its just the approach we take to criticizing whatever it is, how often and in which ways as well as our final conclusion is very different to other parts of the political spectrum. I always get vexed when I hear that argument. I think I remember the lady who was seen as the the heroine of Woolwich giving an article in the Guardian where she said that she doesn't like the whole 'Socialism, where you believe everything is good' attitude and thats why she voted Mr Cameron. I got confused, it was like she was insinuating that because of Brown and Co. before (who aren't even real socialists anyway but generally left liberals) the whole Muslim questions were left unanswered which is why problems like this occurred which could be right in a sense but thats got nothing to do with the Woolwich terrorist incidents, so when she dropped it in there it felt like she was trying link the 'Left-liberals' with the radicalism/terrorism issues kind of suggesting that the left doesn't talk about them properly and thats why these things happen.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #12 - June 12, 2013, 05:25 PM

    What's wrong with his article regarding homosexuality?

    "As a white person, I struggle with black people – but I oppose racism"

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #13 - June 12, 2013, 05:32 PM


    This.

    Quote

    The Pathetic Dispute Over Islam and Homophobia

    A defense of religion turns incoherent

    BY ISAAC CHOTINER

    There’s a vaguely pathetic, rather illuminating conversation about faith and homosexuality taking place across the Atlantic, courtesy of a spectacularly naïve essay that ran in The New Statesman this week. In an opinion piece for the liberal weekly—whose centenary was celebrated by Geoffrey Wheatcroft in our latest issue—Mehdi Hasan, a writer for the magazine and The Huffington Post’s UK political director, added his own contribution to the already rich genre of people oh-so-mindfully battling their own homophobia in print. (The piece also ran on HuffPo). Awkwardly titled “As a Muslim, I struggle With the Idea of Homosexuality, but I Oppose Homophobia,” the story lays out Hasan’s soulful wrestling as he disparages gay-bashing, rues discrimination, confronts his own past, and argues for both tolerance and Islam in ways that quietly undercut  the latter.

    Hasan, who is perhaps best known for several tangles with Richard Dawkins over matters of faith, has garnered some criticism for this latest piece, especially for its belated acknowledgement of youthful homophobia. But rather than quickly consigning Hasan’s story to the dustbin of tortured and not especially convincing arguments, it’s worth doing a close read because the religiously-tinged argument, like many others before it, eventually makes a case against the faith it is ostensibly promoting.

    In classic fashion, Hasan begins with an apology:

    You may or may not be surprised to learn that, as a teenager, I was one of those wannabe-macho kids who crudely deployed “gay” as a mark of abuse; you will probably be shocked to discover that shamefully, even in my twenties, I was still making the odd disparaging remark about homosexuality. It’s now 2013 and I’m 33 years old. My own “youthful enthusiasm” is thankfully, if belatedly, behind me.
    He bravely sticks to this slightly sappy, slightly trying-too-hard-to-be-self-critical tone throughout. Here is the core of his argument:

    What about me? Where do I stand on this? For years I’ve been reluctant to answer questions on the subject. I was afraid of the “homophobe” tag. I didn’t want my gay friends and colleagues to look at me with horror, suspicion or disdain. So let me be clear: yes, I’m a progressive who supports a secular society in which you don’t impose your faith on others – and in which the government, no matter how big or small, must always stay out of the bedroom. But I am also (to Richard Dawkins’s continuing disappointment) a believing Muslim. And, as a result, I really do struggle with this issue of homosexuality. As a supporter of secularism, I am willing to accept same-sex weddings in a state-sanctioned register office, on grounds of equity. As a believer in Islam, however, I insist that no mosque be forced to hold one against its wishes.
    Translation: I am a liberal Muslim, who because of my faith struggles with homosexuality. But Islam has nothing to do with my intolerance! Hasan is blissfully unaware of the contradiction. He has, however, broached a potentially interesting point, namely the relationship between faith (in this case Islam) and tolerance. But because the rest of his piece is devoted to upholding Islam, he can’t really continue with this line of thinking. As he writes:

    I know it might be hard to believe, but Islam is not a religion of violence, hate or intolerance – despite the best efforts of a minority of reactionaries and radicals to argue (and behave) otherwise.
    He doesn't seem to notice that several paragraphs earlier he had referenced a study by quoting the following line: “None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.” This doesn’t really seem like “a minority of reactionaries.”

    Hasan then quotes everyone’s favorite “moderate” Muslim, Tariq Ramadan, the Oxford professor whose equivocating on issues such as stoning women has been questioned, most notably by Paul Berman in The New Republic. As Ramadan states, “I may disagree with what you are doing because it’s not in accordance with my belief but I respect who are you are.” Hasan then notes that this is “a question of respect and mutual understanding.” Stripped of the touchy-feely language, this is just another version of “hate the sin, love the sinner,” and it’s just as slippery, implying that homosexuality is about actions alone, as if straight people consider their straightness only in the context of heterosexual sex.

    Before long, Hasan’s piece descends further into silliness. He writes:

    A 2011 poll for the think tank Demos found that fewer than one in four British Muslims disagreed with the statement “I am proud of how Britain treats gay people.” There is much to be proud of, but still much to be done.
    It clearly doesn’t take much for Hasan to feel pride. And anyway, this poll could be read any number of ways. How does Britain treat gay people? He continues:

    We must avoid stereotyping and demonising each other at all costs. “The biggest question we have as a society,” says a Muslim MP who prefers to remain anonymous, “is how we accommodate difference.”
    It’s unclear whether Hasan sees the depressing irony and absurdity of the MP’s wish to remain anonymous about such an innocuous, clichéd quote. He then goes on to remind the reader that some homophobes are not Muslim, as if anyone was arguing otherwise.

    A key to the problem with Hasan’s reasoning occurs at the end of the piece, when he types some platitudes about everyone being a brother or sister of everyone else, and lamely concludes that, “Yet ultimately I didn’t set out to write this piece to try to bridge the gap between Islam and homosexuality. I am not a theologian. Nor am I writing this in response to the ongoing parliamentary debate about the pros and cons of same-sex marriage. I am not a politician.” Such courage! And it’s nice to know that he thinks the people who should bridge the divide between Islam and homosexuality are theologians, as if the right approach to gay people depends on what a Holy Book says. (Ramadan follows the same logic). Hasan’s introspection may be a necessary step towards being a nice guy, but he hasn’t done his faith, or Britain’s gay citizens, any favors.


    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113259/silly-debate-over-islam-and-homophobia

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #14 - June 12, 2013, 05:43 PM

    @Breakerofvows
                                 didn't hear the lady's comments in context so can't comment,however there is a case to be answered on the left of how fear of being labled 'reactionary. racist, islamaphobe ' etc is making a lot of people lose sight of what the  left's general collective political aspirations are and in doing so are giving succour to what on principal should be there biggest foes : the misogynist,homophobe,sectarian,and the bigoted. Yet,even though we could all identify a group 'who has the royal flush of  'phobes' and 'isms' the left seem like rabbits caught in headlights when it comes to Islamism.
    My take on it is that those movers and shakers on the radical left are working on the principal of my enemy's enemy and/or  any port in a storm.  I'm pretty sure that both the radical left and the islamists each see the other as  'useful fools'.

    If you  have a link to Hasan's piece on homosexuality please post it  EDIt! just seen the post above mine
     

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #15 - June 12, 2013, 06:05 PM

    "As a white person, I struggle with black people – but I oppose racism"


    did I say that I supported his viewpoint? I think it's risible, farcical and most of all detrimental to the homosexual community. But he's a mainstream muslim and this is to be expected. In that context, there is nothing wrong with his article. Naturally if we take a deconstructionist approach all the flaws are revealed, but, deconstruction is anathema to islam, imho.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #16 - June 12, 2013, 06:07 PM

    did I say that I supported his viewpoint?

    No, you asked what's wrong with the article. That was my answer.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #17 - June 12, 2013, 06:13 PM

    Well yes, but by what standard are we judging this?

    For us, it's indisputably wrong. For a muslim, not so.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #18 - June 12, 2013, 06:18 PM

    I only have one standard.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #19 - June 12, 2013, 06:30 PM

    And can you argue that said standard can be universalised? I would think not.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #20 - June 12, 2013, 09:53 PM

    Can I argue that the one standard I use to judge things can be universalised? What does that even mean?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #21 - June 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

    What are your morals predicated on?
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #22 - June 12, 2013, 11:32 PM

    Do you want the short answer or the long one?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #23 - June 12, 2013, 11:34 PM

    @shizo
    I'm with Ishina on this one. What do your questions actually mean?  
    Could you make your questions clearer for those of us just leaving a Stone Roses concert?

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #24 - June 12, 2013, 11:50 PM

    Do you want the short answer or the long one?


    Which ever one is more defendable.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #25 - June 13, 2013, 12:09 AM

    Which ever one is more defendable.

    Short answer: My morals are predicated on evolution, biology, empathy, experience, upbringing. And above all else: reason, utility, practical/logical deduction - the ability to question and change what I have inherited culturally and control what I have inherited biologically. How I acquire and refine actual communicable moral principles is a continuous dialogue with the world. All senses are involved, all faculties. From my first breath I began to cultivate my moral and philosophical alchemy, building a framework of what I believe to be wrong and right and what I am compelled by my conscience to comply with.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #26 - June 13, 2013, 05:53 AM

    Its like when Somalis tell me a certain Somali author is good, only because he is one of the few writing in English.   If Hasan is ok compared to others that's not saying much and also saying a lot.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Mehdi Hasan
     Reply #27 - June 13, 2013, 06:42 AM

    Its like when Somalis tell me a certain Somali author is good, only because he is one of the few writing in English.   If Hasan is ok compared to others that's not saying much and also saying a lot.

    Given to my parents by some Albanians they had to stay.


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