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Theme Changer

 Topic: Can we make a Change?

 (Read 12562 times)
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  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #60 - August 10, 2013, 11:17 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on August 10, 2013, 10:21 PM


    Unlike most teenagers I am not a rebellious person at all.  I prefer to avoid confrontation whenever possible.   I have a pretty conservative personality.  ( I will prefer a nice lunch with a friend over going and partying and when I do drink I prefer to drink for the taste and not to get drunk or wasted).

    However being an ex muslim has forced me into a position where when coming out I have to argue/fight with people just to get them to leave me alone.  Really! all that drama just to get people to stop forcing me to follow their religion.

    When I do come out I just want to get the confrontation/fights/emotional drama part over as soon as I can.

    But I think the emotional family drama is going to be a lifelong problem.  



    Tbh, I was exaggerating. A lot. I've never partied, had a drink, smoked a spliff, or even dated a girl. I'm pretty much the stereotypical introvert who prefers to be alone. Probably because my family are complete nutters.

    When I mentioned rebellion, I meant as in moving out, wanting my own place, coming out to friends and family concerning my apostasy. Of course, that isn't really rebellion, it's simply expressing who you are as an individual who wants to be free and independent. But family and friends will always consider it the worst act of rebellion possible.
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #61 - August 10, 2013, 11:20 PM
    Well leaving Islam (publicly) is pretty rebellious than dating, drinking and partying Afro
    turnipovich
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #62 - August 11, 2013, 03:07 AM
    Mia,

    Is your apostasy irreversible? Do you ever see yourself, might/maybe/possibly believing in Allah, His Messenger, and the Day of Judgement again?

    Sad to see you go, but 100% supporting your freedom to choose and (dis)believe.
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #63 - August 11, 2013, 03:12 AM
    Wish more people shared your sentiment.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #64 - August 11, 2013, 03:43 AM
    Quote from: Seeker on August 11, 2013, 03:07 AM
    Mia,

    Is your apostasy irreversible? Do you ever see yourself, might/maybe/possibly believing in Allah, His Messenger, and the Day of Judgement again?

    Sad to see you go, but 100% supporting your freedom to choose and (dis)believe.


    No, I would definitely not return to Islam. My views haven't changed since I was a child and I continue to stand firm in my views. When I was a theist, I did not enjoyed Islam but what stopped me from committing apostasy was my fear of Allah and hell. I wouldn't say I was a 'true' Muslim, I was more confused but now I found my position. Thankful I'm an ex-Muslim atheist but I respect that you support my freedom to choose. It's nice meeting you by the way.
    turnipovich
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #65 - August 11, 2013, 03:58 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 10, 2013, 10:38 PM
    You're Canadian right? They aren't as religious as the US from what I know. About from the family is it hard to get away from religion?

     


    With the exception of muslims people don't really care about religion up here.  We are similar to Europe in that regard.

    During the school year a lecturer at a my uni class of around 500 people asked the class to raise their hands if they thought religion was an important part of their life.

    Less than half the people raised their hands. So yeah Canadians are nowhere near as religious as Americans.   






    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #66 - August 11, 2013, 03:58 AM
    As for family,  here is how I expect it to go down when I come out.

    First it will be lots of arguments and emotional  drama with my parents. 

    Then the relatives will be called and it will be round two of heated arguments and drama.

    Then my parents' family friends will get called up which means round three of heated arguments and drama. 

    After that they will try to get imams to talk me back into converting to islam.

    After that they will try to guilt me back into converting and when they realize its no use they will probably disown me completely.

    If they don't disown me completely I will end up having a really complicated drama filled relationship with my parents which is the best case scenario.   


    Given the fact that I am a non confrontational person. It will really be a huge pain in the ass that I am really not looking forward too. 
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #67 - August 11, 2013, 04:03 AM
    Disown you how? Kick you out onto the streets? Have no contact with you?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #68 - August 11, 2013, 04:13 AM
    ^

    I'll be financially independent by the time i come out so being kicked out on the streets won't be an issue. 

    By disown I mean they will no longer consider me their son and tell me to basically get out of their lives.  Getting disowned is a pretty common response by families when ex muslims come out.   

    I'ts very uncommon for a muslim family to maintain a close relationship with a family member thats left the religion.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #69 - August 11, 2013, 04:24 AM
    I always heard that but hoped I was misinformed.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #70 - August 11, 2013, 04:40 AM
    ^

    Nope.  you weren't misinformed.  Just read through the stories of the members of this forum.  You will find some positive coming out stories but they will be a minority.
     
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #71 - August 11, 2013, 04:45 AM
    Was more hoping it was that people on this site were attracted because of it. Sigh, that really is sad. What's it like in wider Canadian society? Here it's all about the importance of family thick or thin, come hell or high water as I often heard from so many as a child. Though to be fair it's not always that way. I'm not saying I've never heard people of other religions acting like this but am I just looking in the wrong place when I come across a predominantly muslim majority?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #72 - August 11, 2013, 12:59 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on August 11, 2013, 04:13 AM
    ^

    I'll be financially independent by the time i come out so being kicked out on the streets won't be an issue. 

    By disown I mean they will no longer consider me their son and tell me to basically get out of their lives.  Getting disowned is a pretty common response by families when ex muslims come out.   

    I'ts very uncommon for a muslim family to maintain a close relationship with a family member thats left the religion.




    and all of this get worse for a daughter, since she is the honour of the family...
    what if i  were never born   Cry
    I was rebellious with them only one time, with the hijab but all that didnt work, i wonder how will i come out with all this ex-muslim stuff...i know their reaction, maybe i'll do the same thing as mia...

  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #73 - September 02, 2013, 10:20 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 11, 2013, 12:59 PM
    and all of this get worse for a daughter, since she is the honour of the family...


    I'm disappointed no one commented after this, I thing it deserves a response. Different expectations of son and daughter in muslim families and the effects of it.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #74 - September 03, 2013, 09:42 PM
    An honor shouldn't be worthy calling it that way if represented by the presence of a hymen -.-"
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #75 - April 19, 2014, 05:02 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUoaVG4AvOA
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #76 - April 20, 2014, 01:04 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 07, 2013, 02:42 PM
    um, I dont know why but i feel like everyone should get out of the darkness. Im an atheist and I dont want to ruin my life because of stupid belief that i were told when i was young.
    I feel like we can make a change, a small revolution (i know im too enthusiastic by the idea )
    I have made a fake account on fb and i have sent my muslim brainwashed cousin some questions about islam, at first she didnt reply but now she asked if i were muslim, well i cant say a lie even on a fake fb account but im trying to change her mind, do you think this idea will succeed?
    Are you doing something like this? 
    Before we were ex-muslim, we were muslim (it's obvious XD) but if we changed our mind gradually about these things why cant we change the lives of the other people? Maybe it's the environment, the education?
     Huh?   

    (sorry my bad english)



    A friend and I are doing something similar on instagram. He's brave and using his real name and his face etc (we live in Kuwait) He's trying a very non aggressive method of just posting questions and not any statements. He brings up conflicting hadiths/fatwas/science with links to sources and leaves it up to the reader. It is an attempt to move people to start thinking.

    He's much better in arabic literature and fiqh and I try to provide him with scientific facts that contradict quran/hadith.

    I have to say that I didn't agree with his approach intially as I don't like to sugarcoat but his approach seems to have been working as it doesn't make people create a defensive barrier which is what happens usually when you tell them that they're wrong.

    The latest example is "إِنَّ اللَّهَ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ وَيُنَزِّلُ الْغَيْثَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الأَرْحَامِ " "Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs." which conflicts with the technology of sperm sorting in combination with iin vitro fertilization (ethical or not is another question) which allows us to select and know the sex of the child before it is even conceived.   
    "Ours is the age which is proud of machines that think and suspicious of men who try to."
    هذا من فضل جدي
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #77 - April 20, 2014, 02:45 PM
    This non-aggressive approach you're mentioning is actually much better and lucrative in my opinion. As you said, people don't get all defensive but can actually read and just think for themselves. Sometimes atheist in general can get as "intolerant" as religious people because we want everyone to see the "truth". But at the end of the day, people have to decide for themselves. I mean, you can't argue yourself out of things like this:

    http://irrationalislam.wordpress.com/

    Roll Eyes
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #78 - April 20, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 07, 2013, 02:42 PM
    um, I dont know why but i feel like everyone should get out of the darkness. Im an atheist and I dont want to ruin my life because of stupid belief that i were told when i was young.
    I feel like we can make a change, a small revolution (i know im too enthusiastic by the idea )
    I have made a fake account on fb and i have sent my muslim brainwashed cousin some questions about islam, at first she didnt reply but now she asked if i were muslim, well i cant say a lie even on a fake fb account but im trying to change her mind, do you think this idea will succeed?
    Are you doing something like this? 
    Before we were ex-muslim, we were muslim (it's obvious XD) but if we changed our mind gradually about these things why cant we change the lives of the other people? Maybe it's the environment, the education?
     Huh?   

    (sorry my bad english)




    I was wrong. I was no different from a muslim forcing beliefs on others. Tbh, I dont care about what muslims believe in. The only thing that pisses me off is that we, exmuslims, have to hide ourselves. We dont have the same freedom that muslims have. They dont have to live in fear, do they?
    They have the right to say and do whatever they want but not us. If we do something like that, we have to worry about our lives.

  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #79 - April 20, 2014, 04:48 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on April 20, 2014, 03:40 PM
    The only thing that pisses me off is that we, exmuslims, have to hide ourselves. We dont have the same freedom that muslims have. They dont have to live in fear, do they?


    Even though our fears as ex muslims are more real than the imaginary hell,  I was a lot more scared of something that was not real than from something that is. I was scared shitless throughout my muslim life from hell and eternal damnation.
    just my 2 fils
    "Ours is the age which is proud of machines that think and suspicious of men who try to."
    هذا من فضل جدي
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #80 - April 20, 2014, 05:10 PM
    ^ agreed, I don't how people truly live when they know about this hell and punishment... It use to keep me up at night endlessly
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #81 - April 21, 2014, 01:13 PM
    Hey all,

    This is a really interesting conversation. I live in the uk and would love to come out. But unfortunately it took me till 35 to realise that islam was fake, and now I have a religous wife and kids. The fear of losing my family keeps me in the closet.

    When I think back to my religous days, nothing could have convinced me islam was madeup. And any time I heard someone criticise islam, I would close off to the arguments.  I would also return back to my muslim support group, i.e religous family, imams to reconfirm islam was the truth.

    Even though I find it frustrating living as a muslim I cant justify coming out and losing my family, so as a compromise I told my wife I was only going to follow quran as hadith often contradicts quran, this opened door to being able to interpret islam in a less strict way, such as  claiming food of christians is halal, and alcohol is not forbidden.  My wife completely closed off, she told me I was arrogant for not following the mainstrsam interpretation of islam, and refused to listen to my arguments.  I realised then she would never understand me coming out.

    Even if an exmuslim does come out and lives in a country where they can feel relatively safe about it, muslims would wear that person down, and keep at him/her till that person lost their mental health.  If someone does decide to fight the good fight, then they need to be prepared to dedicate their life to the cause, because unfortuately its not possible to be open against islam and not have full time consequences.

    Sometimes I just want to start making youtube videos of all the stupidity in islam, but to be honest life is too short and id rather enjoy life rather than spend the rest of my life fighting with people who close their minds as soon as they see any criticism of islam.

    Sorry for the length of this post.
    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #82 - April 21, 2014, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: kulay on April 20, 2014, 04:48 PM
    Even though our fears as ex muslims are more real than the imaginary hell,  I was a lot more scared of something that was not real than from something that is. I was scared shitless throughout my muslim life from hell and eternal damnation.
    just my 2 fils


    Lol @ 2 fils. Yeah, I agree. I was terrified of hell, death and the afterlife as a Muslim. As a little kid, I'd cry in fear of getting burned for not being perfect. The punishment of the grave is the stuff of nightmares no I also found the concept of jannah boring as heck so there's definitely peace of mind that comes with being a murtad.
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #83 - September 02, 2016, 03:32 PM
    I think that changing the mind of others is something that comes naturally in one's life if you are able to be open about your views. I think that's the main barrier for many of us right now, in having to be closeted.

    In school people know that I am atheist. I try to support different things which involve humanist values. But actively I don't find myself doing anything really to change other people's minds.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Can we make a Change?
     Reply #84 - September 02, 2016, 04:13 PM
    Maybe not trying to change others is important.  We can change ourselves.  We cannot change other people. 

    I like being Christian and I think it benefits me so I have been abused by person who was coming out about being atheist, exmuslim and gay.  He targeted me because I was Christian.  I did not deserve it. 

    You could focus on a few important issues of abuse that you can discuss with others.  Otherwise just being someone's friend while having a difference if opinion is helpful.   You can have some common interest or concern for someone without agreeing with them totally.  Just avoid abuse.  Do not abuse.  Do not accept abuse. 

    If someone comes to believe that they want to be exmuslim themselves then they can get some help or information by using the interent.  If you are already their friend then if they might feel safe to confide in you and you can help them. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
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