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 Topic: Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)

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  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #90 - August 11, 2013, 11:45 PM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on August 11, 2013, 11:42 PM
    Yes there are a few self-haters. Though take someone like Saif? He can critically analyse islam without coming across as racists.


    Saif gets called a self hater, received death threats regularly. He collected them, was quite funny in a 'I Keel You!' kind of way.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #91 - August 11, 2013, 11:48 PM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on August 11, 2013, 11:42 PM
    Yes there are a few self-haters. Though take someone like Saif? He can critically analyse islam without coming across as racists. Not that I have read loads of his stuff, but his thread on cultural Muslims. Happymurtad, you Billy, plenty of others don't come across as racists/self-haters(if indeed you are born-muslim)

    Sounds good.



    No, he just comes across as an asshole. Cheesy And he is indeed racist against Arabs, though not as bad as muddy. Tongue
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #92 - August 11, 2013, 11:48 PM
    Speaking of racism, last time I watched a documentary about Dawkins, he claimed to be born in Kenya and even proud to call himself a Kenyan and walk among them in the streets. I don't see Bush or Reagan doing that...just saying.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #93 - August 11, 2013, 11:49 PM
    ur thinking of Obama, Cato.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #94 - August 11, 2013, 11:51 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 11, 2013, 11:49 PM
    ur thinking of Obama, Cato.


     Cheesy

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #95 - August 11, 2013, 11:52 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 11, 2013, 11:48 PM
    No, he just comes across as an asshole. Cheesy And he is indeed racist against Arabs, though not as bad as muddy. Tongue


    I have only met some Saudis whilst on Umrah, I just thought they were brown Americans.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #96 - August 11, 2013, 11:53 PM
    That's harsh kid
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #97 - August 11, 2013, 11:56 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 11, 2013, 11:49 PM
    ur thinking of Obama, Cato.


    Grin

    No, but really he was born in Kenya unlike Obama who was born in the US.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #98 - August 12, 2013, 12:02 AM
    Perhaps. Lol. I did have the mental image of the shopping malls in Medina - the big cars  - the American brands and consumerism. Never had the acquaintance or regular time with any regular Arab.

    Shouldn't generalise, but when you hear that if an arab finds money on the street, he smells it and if it smells of perfume it belonged to an Arab and if it smelt of curry it belonged to a Pakistani. Lol, ones opinion that everyone is racist (some more so than others - mildly prejudiced to outright hate).

    Though sometimes on the internet people like to get you/me/as person to self-identify with a group or pigeon-hole you in a group and throw all the shit (at you/me etc) associated with said group.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #99 - August 12, 2013, 12:04 AM
    Heh, nah it's cool.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #100 - August 12, 2013, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 11, 2013, 11:48 PM
    No, he just comes across as an asshole. Cheesy And he is indeed racist against Arabs, though not as bad as muddy. Tongue


    Are you allowed to say that? When I first joined he did come across racist against Pakistani's, I don't think that now, so the fact that we both thought he was racist to different groups means something about us rather than him. Just saying. Or have you seen/heard enough not to give him the benefit of the doubt?
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #101 - August 12, 2013, 12:13 AM
    Heh, well he's free to come back and defend himself if he likes. We've had plenty of nasty arguments back in the day. And yeah I know him as well as someone on the internet can know someone else on the internet he doesn't like without getting obsessive and creepy over it. Tongue Yes he may very well not be a racist, but when it comes to people that arrogant it's very hard to discern between pure arrogant dickheadedness and genuine classism, racism and sexism (all of which I'd be comfortable accusing him of even if I happen to be wrong). I'll give saif credit on two things-- he smart and he got balls. Same for Dawkins. In fact, if Saif were a white biology professor he'd be Dawkins.  grin12

    He would see that as a compliment I'm sure. Tongue
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #102 - August 12, 2013, 12:16 AM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on August 11, 2013, 11:35 PM

    So the killing of Sikhs and Hindus mistaken for Muslims because of their brown skin?


    Incredibly racist, vilely so.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #103 - August 12, 2013, 12:18 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 12, 2013, 12:13 AM
    Heh, well he's free to come back and defend himself if he likes. We've had plenty of nasty arguments back in the day. And yeah I know him as well as someone on the internet can know someone else on the internet he doesn't like without getting obsessive and creepy over it. Tongue Yes he may very well not be a racist, but when it comes to people that arrogant it's very hard to discern between pure arrogant dickheadedness and genuine classism, racism and sexism (all of which I'd be comfortable accusing him of even if I happen to be wrong). I'll give saif credit on two things-- he smart and he got balls. Same for Dawkins. In fact, if Saif were a white biology professor he'd be Dawkins.  grin12

    He would see that as a compliment I'm sure. Tongue


    Oh. You were talking about Saif, I thought you were talking about Billy? as for Saif, only read his thread here about Cultural Muslims, no nothing else about the bloke.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #104 - August 12, 2013, 12:22 AM
    Ha, no, not billy. Saif Al Rahman or whatever he callin himself these days.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #105 - August 12, 2013, 12:23 AM
     Grin

    Get some sleep dude  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #106 - August 12, 2013, 12:26 AM
    Quote from: billy on August 11, 2013, 11:45 PM
    Saif gets called a self hater, received death threats regularly. He collected them, was quite funny in a 'I Keel You!' kind of way.




    Like I said, only read his thread about cultural muslim, seems like he is out of his self-hating phase. I have not read anything else by him, not his historical posts.I myself twenty/twenty-five years ago would be on this sorta forum, if the internet existed and would critically analyse the beejesus out of Islam. Oh the hate I had for Islam. You get older, wiser, cynical, pragmatic.

    Oh you do get the sorta people who raise the race card at a moments notice. I don't think that applies to Dawkins tweet.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #107 - August 12, 2013, 12:30 AM
    Quote from: billy on August 12, 2013, 12:23 AM
    Grin

    Get some sleep dude  Afro


    Indeed. Good night.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #108 - August 12, 2013, 01:54 AM
    plenty   collection  on  bashing   richard dawkins[   from muslimtimes.org

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvc1aYGEED8
    It is always fun to laugh at yourself..   
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #109 - August 12, 2013, 02:36 PM
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #110 - August 12, 2013, 03:14 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on August 12, 2013, 12:42 AM
    He's no longer here, so I don't see much point in bad mouthing him in his absence.  His posts are still here, people can read them and make up their own mind about him.


    Meh, feel free to delete my posts dissing him. I'd do it myself but I know mass editing by the OP is frowned upon.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #111 - August 12, 2013, 04:56 PM
    On "Islam is not a race!"

    I've always been partial to the signifier / signified explanation where words point to things in real life. When people say Islam is not a race they are saying the signifier is incorrect and I agree, but the thing people were incorrectly trying to describe still exists, namely bigotry against Muslims in various essentializations and assumptions.


    So in the context on Dawkins quote, if we look at it seems to be essentializing Muslims, though I'd be curious on what one would think about the "did cool things in the Middle Ages" essentializes them. In any case, it was a blunt statement that didn't have the needed nuance in be an accurate statement on any account. Let's take a look at various ways of describing the relationship between religion and scientific progress.


    1. X people in a religion lack the basic ability to "progress" - the most racist and bigoted statement. It assumes that merely being part of a group limits one's innate ability to have cognitive tools.


    But what about the Amish? We don't expect them to get a Nobel in chemistry any time soon. Right, which is the second statement.


    2. While all humans retain the same cognitive capabilities, certain religions metaphysically restrain or de emphasize scientific progress. The Amish in case in point. In Islam, these days at least, there doesn't seem to be any doctrinal restraint against general scientific progress, but against specific claims such as human evolution or against conclusions that might reject it's supernatural tenets such as claiming it's unlikely angels or jinn exist.


    But while a religion itself might not metaphysically hinder scientific progress there can be movements within a religion that do. Iconoclasm periodically rocked Christianity and the current emphasis on blasphemy on drawing Mohammed aren't specifically defined in the religion but have connections to it. Likewise the de emphasis on "Western education" and the accompanying skills of critical thinking, modern skepticism are real movements within the Islamic world. These movements are affected by politics, economics, class, etc so to merely say they are attributed to the metaphysics of religion is a bit overselling the point. Which I think Dawkins clumsily did.




    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #112 - August 12, 2013, 10:06 PM
    Your comparison with the Amish and overuse of the word metaphysics ruins this for me. There is no comparison with islam and the Amish and metaphysics may as well mean the study of werewolf transformations and vampire immortality.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #113 - August 12, 2013, 10:16 PM
    Wrong. deusvult doesn't post that often but pretty much every time he does it's pure WIN, and this is no exception. He's not saying the Amish are like Muslims but the point in terms of religion and technology he is using the Amish to illustrate is apt.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #114 - August 12, 2013, 10:39 PM
    Perhaps it is just being different to the West, a reaction to the neo-liberalism of the West, perhaps Muslims don't see it as a success, because in the end they win.

    So West advances, with science/logic/etc muslims (the ones who resent this) and the they go the other way, the West give their women 'rights' and dress how they like, the Muslims go opposite, I.e talibanesque. Not sure if there any other examples, must be or else this hypothesis is weak.

    Maybe similar to Russia's reaction to gay marriage here, possible reason for harassment over there.

    Blame the Saudis. Too rich to feel the heat.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #115 - August 13, 2013, 11:14 PM
    The Amish don't constantly boast about (bullshit) scientific miracles in their holy book.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #116 - August 13, 2013, 11:58 PM
    If they were online they probably would. I never hear Muslims offline in the real world talking about such shit. I've never had one in real life use such methods to try to get me to become Muslim. It's just the obnoxious semi-professional/professional dawah folks and Muslims debating online as far as I can tell.
    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #117 - August 15, 2013, 12:17 PM
    To be fair to ateapotist, he does have a point. Sure not many Muslims offline bring up Science in the Quran, but in my experience when debating religion if I bought up science to counter religion, they would bring up the science in the Quran.

    Which is funny because most of the time my friends send me all sorts of (to them) stuff to disprove science. Usually what I call muslim urban myths - videos of people possessed by djinns, women talking in men voices, the latest one being Djinn valley in Saudi where cars inexplicably drive with the engine switched off (on further digging it transpires that they are gravity hills and found all over the world.

    So one the one hand it is 'look at the science in the Quran' and on the other hand it is a quest to prove that the laws of science are not always true (djinns etc). (Personally, see no reason why they push the science in the Quran - it's all about faith).

    This quest to come up with something disproving science by muslims (not just muslims, other theist, spiritualist, occult - esp, dowsing, Ouija, homeopathy mongers etc also) is what I term the The Holy Grail of the 21st century.

    Cos someone threw an egg up in the air and it hovered it would affect my faith in science.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #118 - August 15, 2013, 04:52 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 13, 2013, 11:58 PM
    If they were online they probably would. I never hear Muslims offline in the real world talking about such shit. I've never had one in real life use such methods to try to get me to become Muslim. It's just the obnoxious semi-professional/professional dawah folks and Muslims debating online as far as I can tell.


    That's cuz you haven't meet them offline. They do.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #119 - August 15, 2013, 07:30 PM
    I haven't? You ever been to Philadelphia?
    fuck you
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