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 Topic: Religion in education in Britain

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  • Religion in education in Britain
     OP - August 28, 2013, 01:49 AM
    Can the Brits on here let us non-Brits know what is the state of religion and education in Britain? I've read that religious schools make up 1/3rd of all public schools in Britain. Is this figure more or less accurate? Also, is religious education compulsory in Britain? If so, is it skewed towards a certain religion or is it actually comparative religious studies that are taught in RE classes in public schools?

    Would appreciate any info and links from credible sources about this stuff. Thanks in advance.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #1 - August 28, 2013, 02:05 AM
    Quote from: allat on August 28, 2013, 01:49 AM
    Can the Brits ................

    let me add this to allat's British Cans..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00TNrA8QwO8

    hey..  Sayeeda Warsi   stop flirting with George The Baldi.. That guy has already had three wives ..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #2 - August 30, 2013, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: allat on August 28, 2013, 01:49 AM
    Can the Brits on here let us non-Brits know what is the state of religion and education in Britain? I've read that religious schools make up 1/3rd of all public schools in Britain[/url]. Is this figure more or less accurate? Also, is religious education compulsory in Britain? If so, is it skewed towards a certain religion or is it actually comparative religious studies that are taught in RE classes in public schools?

    Would appreciate any info and links from credible sources about this stuff. Thanks in advance.


    Most primary schools on the UK are CofE and most usually retain the name but not the character of Christianity.

    All schools are legally obliged to have a 'service' in the morning/afternoon, however this has been substituted with 'citizenship'-esque assemblies/tutor time in which classes or larger groups of students either reflect upon or discuss current issues.

    Religious Education is a compulsory subject in schools at KS3 at least and in primary. Christianity must be taught along with the second most 'popular' religion in the area (Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism). This is taught alongside issues up for debate. At KS4 and KS5 RE becomes more a philosophy and ethics type of subject debating such topics as 'Does God Exist', the nature of truth, right and wrong, abortion, racism, euthanasia etc. . In my opinion the RE curriculum  is outstanding.

    I am a History teacher who works in the Humanities Department of a 11-18 school. I have taught RE.

     Afro
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #3 - August 30, 2013, 10:59 PM
    Not sure about nowadays but when I was younger we'd sing hymns in assembly every morning, by the time I got to middle school we still had assembly but the hymns were gone. RE (and then later RS) was focused on teaching the founding and tenants of the major world faith as Jedi said. I was never taught one was more true than another, just taught the foundation and teachings of the religions on a very equal basis. I'm not sure if you still focus on Christianity in primary school anymore.

    More and more people are against faith schools but I don't see them vanishing any time soon.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #4 - August 31, 2013, 12:44 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 30, 2013, 10:16 PM
    most usually retain the name but not the character of Christianity.

    This is the key point, one unlikely to be mirrored by newly-established faith schools. Thanks, Mr Blair for another great idea.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #5 - August 31, 2013, 12:53 AM
    How about no faith schools and schools that make a point of having a good mix? It's hard to discriminate against people who are different from you when you grow up with them. We already seem to be sleepwalking to segregation.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #6 - August 31, 2013, 10:48 AM
    Quote from: David on August 31, 2013, 12:44 AM
    This is the key point, one unlikely to be mirrored by newly-established faith schools. Thanks, Mr Blair for another great idea.


    Mr Blair promoted the idea of faith schools (of which there were many prior to his election) with good intentions. Remember this came at a time when there were (ironically) tensions within communities and a distrust amongst minorities that the elite were not serving their interests. This is a policy that has done nothing but to further entrench community tensions and create barriers between groups of people.

    Unfortunately, faith schools are not dissapearing and with the creation of Free Schools (in which community members can establish their own schools and loosely follow the National Curriculum) this is becoming more prevelant. Thank you Mr Gove/Cameron.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #7 - August 31, 2013, 11:25 AM
    Mate, when Tony Blair was elected PM I was 8/9. 8 before July 16 1997, 9 after July 1997. I don't know about this shit, it's not something a 8/9 year old focuses on.

    At least the government is trying to nip this creationism as science bollocks in the bud. Keep in in RE lessons and out of science lessons, the two are completely different things. If you want to combine them that's your business but I do get annoyed when muslims dictate what scientific facts they can and cannot accept. Science doesn't  care, that's a matter for you and your iman. Stop trying to turn the UK into an intellectual embarrassment like America.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #8 - August 31, 2013, 11:33 AM
    Past couple of years I've heard that RE will teach atheism and humanism as both are so prevalent in the UK. Any news of that?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #9 - August 31, 2013, 11:37 AM
    I think asking kids to read all religious books is important so that they get get exposed to THE STUPIDITY in them but it should be done along with Science class and Science teacher should be trained to teach stuff from religious books..

    One must realize here Science NEVER opposes religion., it only opposes stupidity in religious rituals  and unproven claims of religious scriptures

    Hmm good to watch these tubes...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cYcsVPOok

    Science works bitches   Cheesy Cheesy
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #10 - August 31, 2013, 12:00 PM
    No, science teachers should not be trained to teach from the holy books. That's what we have RE for. Science teachers should teach science. My RE teachers taught the major religions, my science teachers taught science, my 9 year old sister is being taught the same way as are the children of friends of mine, I think it's a good process. Religion in RE/RS class, science in science class.

    I actually do get your point but I am fundamentally against it. A science teacher sprouting religious dogma is NOT the way to go in my opinion. Yes I know you mentioned putting unproven claims of religious scriptures out there but I'm still against it. Keep it the fuck out of science.

    Any science teacher teaching Adam and Eve as a scientific theory (which it will be taken as if taught by a science teacher) if at all should be fired and if it's my child I will take them to court for child abuse. They will not teach how the scripture is wrong as it would most likely fall foul of religious hatred laws. They would have no choice but to teach creationism in science class.

    Here's how I see it going down. You know for the longest time we've been a Christian country. Let's say the Bible is taught by a science teacher. If they teach Leprosy can be treated (which they would have to do because otherwise you'd face a court case over religious discrinmination) via taking two birds, killing one of them, dipping the living bird in the dead bird's blood and then shaking the living bird to sprinkle the dead bird's blood on you seven times, or equally valid, they use modern scientific medicine that actually does treat it but both are given as equally valid options, we have a problem. Likewise with Muhammad and the camel piss. They know it's bullshit but would have to teach it as valid anyway because of hate laws. I said if before, I'll say it again. if a science teacher taught that to my children I would take them to court.

    Holy books should NEVER be taught in a science class. Never. That's what we have RE for.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #11 - August 31, 2013, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 31, 2013, 12:00 PM
    No, science teachers should not be trained to teach from the holy books. That's what we have RE for. Science teachers should teach science. My RE teachers taught the major religions, my science teachers taught science, my 9 year old sister is being taught the same way as are the children of friends of mine, I think it's a good process. Religion in RE/RS class, science in science class.

    holy books?  what is holy about books QSE? it is just   some language script on some paper. Well I am not saying Science teachers should spend their time preaching religious gibberish but whenever the so-called religious scripture relate the words in them to the natural science overtly or covertly  then they need to be exposed and best   guys to do that is Science teachers. You yourself put out some examples in your post  
    Quote
    Let's say the Bible is taught by a science teacher.

    ....Leprosy can be treated   via taking two birds, killing one of them, dipping the living bird in the dead bird's blood and then shaking the living bird to sprinkle the dead bird's blood on you seven times......

    ........... Likewise with Muhammad and the camel piss............... They know it's bullshit but would have to teach it as valid anyway because of hate laws


    Clearly those are scientific claims  and who will be a better a guy to expose such nonsense and explain kids that " it is  rubbish",  if not a   a Science teacher??     A fellow who practises and teaches/preaches  religions to kids  will hide all that dirt under the flying carpet.

    Quote
    Holy books should NEVER be taught in a science class. Never. That's what we have RE for.


    Again you have to remove that word "holy" from your vocabulary  Q.  S.  E.    Quantum .. Saturated .. Electric Field??    
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #12 - September 01, 2013, 09:33 AM
    But that's the thing, a child's parents can call foul for discrimination and religious hatred, or pull them out of school, which I think would happen. If a child is raised by conservative religious parents science class will do the job anyway. Here's what we know, here's the proof of it, it does the job. If we go your way then science will just be viewed as the enemy, to be avoided at all costs. It would be counter-productive. I'd love to be wrong on this but my gut feeling is that I'm not.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #13 - September 02, 2013, 08:02 PM
    Quote from: allat on August 28, 2013, 01:49 AM
    Can the Brits on here let us non-Brits know what is the state of religion and education in Britain? I've read that religious schools make up 1/3rd of all public schools in Britain. Is this figure more or less accurate? Also, is religious education compulsory in Britain? If so, is it skewed towards a certain religion or is it actually comparative religious studies that are taught in RE classes in public schools?

    Would appreciate any info and links from credible sources about this stuff. Thanks in advance.


    I don't know what the situation is like these days but when I was at Secondary (11-18 years old) School in the 80s, I went to an independent school so we may have been subject to slightly different regulations.

    I was baptised as a Greek Orthodox (yeah yeah I know) and the school had a Church of England 'flavour' to it, but was basically secular. But we all had to go to the school Chapel once a week (my day was Tuesdays) and we all had to take religious education or 'Divinity' as it was then known and learn about all the religions. It was more an education of religious belief rather than being stated as fact so there was no creationism etc.

    HOWEVER the only people which were exempted (presumably they didnt want their faith exposed to competing ideas) from this class were the muslims as far as I can remember. The rest of us non-muslim pupils were only pissed off cos we had extra homework while the muslims were allowed to finish their other homework while they sat at the back of the divinity class.

    HOWEVER as soon as the curriculum came round to islam, you can bet yer bottom dollar that the muslims soon got involved in THAT class, interupting the teacher and 'bigging up' their particular magical sky daddy (ahem sorry) "Supernatural Heavenly Father".

    But hey that was back in the 80's. Just a little time warp for you guys.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #14 - September 02, 2013, 08:17 PM
    The thing is faith schools generally seem to get good results. (although maybe not in biological evolution lol)

    Its amazing how the threat of eternal torment in hell can focus the mind!

    Mind you there are probably other factors in religious schooling that may cause these good results, ie stricter parents, such religious families may be wealthier, and better organised. But these 'faith schools' seem to be popular with secular parents too, with all these new yuppy families going to church to show how 'faithful' they are just to get little Jonny into the school. Even Nick Clegg Deputy Prime Minister is an atheist and is sending his kids to a Catholic School.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #15 - September 04, 2013, 02:39 AM

    Interesting. Do I understand correctly In UK religious education is required at puplic school even in lowwer grades?

    That would concern me if my children were exposed to that.
    At older ages 10 or 11 or older a child would have enough reasoning skill to deal with what they are hearing to deal with it. To ask questions and express opinions of their own making.

    Some know my own back ground of Jewish Grandparents, Somewhat Christian Parents, My Father changed in later life, An Atheist Stepfather, and being sent to an Islamic Highschool. Also I continue to be religious.

    Anyhow exposer to ideas when a person is mature enough to deal with them is never a harm unless thiese ideas are inflicted with force or undue influence.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #16 - September 05, 2013, 09:52 PM
    Lynna,

    The education system in Britain is not one of indoctrination. At a younger age primary school children (6-11 year olds) are made aware of different cultural beliefs and practices so as to  understand what is happening around them.

    As a non-believer (just me) I have no problem with it at all. Trust me, other than in a faith school environment or rogue primary schools, there is nothing to fear. We, the Brits, have come a very long way. The sin of faith schools however, in a democratic society, is something I must live with, though politicians should make it their business that the Equality Act 2010 is enforce. And when that happens....that would be the death knell for most faith schools.

    Cowards.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #17 - September 05, 2013, 09:56 PM
    jedi, me and you so need to meet one night for a pint. I have to agree, as a Brit it's just factual things, there's no indoctrination. We're taught about it in the same way we're taught about the Greek gods. the lessons don't tell you it's true, just that some people believe this, some people believe that, these here people used to believe in but not anymore, etc.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #18 - September 06, 2013, 10:44 PM
    So I just looked up the key points of religion in the Equality Act 2010.

    Quote
    Religion or belief
    (1)Religion means any religion and a reference to religion includes a reference to a lack of religion.
    (2)Belief means any religious or philosophical belief and a reference to belief includes a reference to a lack of belief.
    (3)In relation to the protected characteristic of religion or belief—
    (a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a person of a particular religion or belief;
    (b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons who are of the same religion or belief.


    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/10

    As a teacher I'm wondering if Jedi has any news on atheism and humanism being taught alongside the major faiths. I know there are certain schools who have it as a subject in RE and I think I recall reading it would be rolled out nationally as so many people in the UK are none religious and should also have a voice. Or am I remembering wrong?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #19 - September 07, 2013, 06:56 PM
    I will look it up mate for you. The RE teacher at my school is a worshipper so he may not be unbiased source as he hates Dawkins and Hitchens and thinks Humanism is a silly idea.


    And we should meet up mate. We should have some sort of massive CEMB meet up





































    Followed by an orgy.






















    JOKE!





















     cool2
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #20 - September 07, 2013, 11:04 PM
    Well there is the Birmingham meetup thing, plus the occasional meetups around the country that is a CEMB meetup. Still waiting for MrHappyMan to get back to me.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #21 - September 08, 2013, 08:55 AM
    Did somebody say orgy?
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #22 - September 08, 2013, 09:06 AM
    When I was at school in the 50s christianity was taught and we all had to go to a service once a week and morning assembly was a christian one, I think most of us found it extremely boring and would sing all the wrong words, i.e., while shepherds washed their socks at night.
    I never caught the religious bug and of course along came the 60s and it was sex, drugs and rock n roll.

    Arthur.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #23 - September 10, 2013, 02:33 AM
    Thank Jedi, It's a good thing I guess that it's not indoctrination. Always have to be careful what other people are teaching our children and  we teach them how to think so they're safe.

    One example with my daughter in public school in the USofA at about age 9. She comes home from school all mad and tells me she's never going back to that place again. So I ask her why. She tells me, "The teacher said religious people don't use C.E. and B.C.E. Well I'm religious and that's what I use and she isn't going to make me change and I'm not talking to her again!" I think to myself dogmatic little punk. So, I ask her what C.E. and B.C.E. mean she knows. I ask her what AD and BC mean she doesn't know the Latin but she knows the basic English equilant. So we look up the Latin, I ask what other religions might want to use C.E. and B.C.E. Right off she gets Judaism and since she had just done a report on China she looks at it for some clues and I give her some clues. I ask her if she had any if this discussion with her teacher. She looks for an escape route because she knows she was a dogmatic little punk and that is worth a time out if she doesn't have the right answer.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #24 - October 15, 2013, 06:45 AM
    A piece in The Economist on the al-Madinah school in Derby.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2013/10/muslim-education-britain?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/givemeachild
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #25 - October 15, 2013, 07:04 AM
    Yeah, it's been in the news a lot. Fucked up shit.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #26 - October 15, 2013, 07:11 AM
    Sorry. It's not been on NHK.

    About the closest NHK comes to news is the weather. A typhoon is on its way, and we're in for a treat tonight - half an hour's coverage of flipped-over bicycles and palm trees flailing in the wind.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #27 - October 16, 2013, 04:30 AM
    That was an interesting article David.
    Doesn't seem quite right to inflict on others a dress code that is not theirs by belief. I suppose however they may feel justified as there is so much talk about not allowing hijab in public schools. I think however that has never been enforced. I however wouldn't support that kind of idea in either direction. I don't know what other male favoring activities were going on and it's a bit late for me to check just now. It however is important for both girls and boys to have good educations.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #28 - October 16, 2013, 04:31 AM
    Also I hope you get through the strom without much trouble
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Religion in education in Britain
     Reply #29 - October 16, 2013, 04:49 AM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 16, 2013, 04:31 AM
    Also I hope you get through the strom without much trouble

    Thank you. The storm has passed now. Damage was terrible - a broken rope on a garden awning and two snapped banana leaves.
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