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Theme Changer

 Topic: Another miracle

 (Read 5784 times)
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  • Another miracle
     Reply #30 - September 16, 2013, 06:26 PM

    That miss America BS can only come from ignorant thick people, what makes you American? Being white? The white Americans are Europeans who settled in America. If they want to talk about indigenous people, Native Americans are the Americans, they aren't white or black for that matter, they're her shade of brown, lol the irony. If they are American for being born there, then so is she. Nationality and ethnicity are different things.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Another miracle
     Reply #31 - September 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

    You guys have probably come across these before, just wondering what you make/made of these?

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/all-about-islam/mathematical-miracles-of-the-noble-quran/221218077898986

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Another miracle
     Reply #32 - September 17, 2013, 12:18 AM

    @Jibbs

    I've done a good bit up follow up on the 'mathematical miracle' stuff so here's just a short response for some of them.

    Yawm does not occur 365 times. In total,  the word is used 475 times. Forms are broken up into single, dual, and plural. The plural form is used 27 times, the duel 3 times and single 445 times. So debunked.

    yawm iddnn (literally two words of 'day' 'that') is used 70 times as is 'day of resurrection'. However, the phrase that day is not exclusive to the day of resurrection (ex: 8:16) just like al-yawm (literally the/this day) isn't exclusive to 'the day of resurrection' and there's a bazillion different combos to try for each one such as 'the last day' 'the day of judgment' 'the day of recompense' etc.

    The month thing is correct I think for the singular forms. I remember there's plural forms ex: 4 months (for 4 sacred months) ironically this isn't repeated 4 times but 3 times Smiley I think there's also a duel form or two in there. There's a number of ways to formulate this so there you go.

    The land vs. sea ratio thing is incorrect (it also seems to be one of the most popular claims i think). Land (bari) actually occurs 12 times and sea appears 41 times if you count singular, dual, and plural forms. Because that's too much I guess we're just going with singular which is 33 times not 32. So, debunked. I think there's additional ways of formulating this like other words for land (maybe al-ardi =earth?) and sea. I good one would have possibly been land + sea = earth but it doesn't work as earth is used far more than 53 times.

    We've seen the same claims over and over again so I got tired of the oft repeated 15 or so supposed symmetries and went looking to see if I could find anymore. Unsurprisingly I found alot of dis-symmetry. Things like al-janat (paradise) vs. hell, mankind vs. jinn, life vs. death etc. turned out to be bunkis. (if you're interested the results were 51 vs. 77 / number of words and ways to count man vs. 32 (none worked FWI + same for life vs. death)) I also did the same with looking for things like # noun repeated # of times and found thinks like 4 months (for sacred months) repeated 3 times and made the heavens and the earth in '6 days' repeated 7 times etc. It was somewhat of a turnoff to say the least Tongue

    Just looking further on the list you provided I see alot of contradictory methods to counting (some of which don't make sense at all). For example the satans vs. angels works only if you count all forms of the word (single, plural, dual, definiteness with al- and pronouns, etc.) whereas things like 'plant vs. tree' doesn't even make sense for example they count tree 26 which kind of makes sense (using two different words, both nouns) and leave out a verb http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$jr#%2848:18:9%29 but then with plant they include all root words even verbs and a verb that doesn't specifically relate to 'plant'. http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=nbt#%2857:20:18%29 It doesn't make any sense, it's contradictory, and it's inconsistent with other ways they count other word 'symmetries'.

    In summation, there's nothing to really refute. Most of the mathematical miracles don't work the way they are presented. And if there does happen to be an honest formulation, the way words can be counted up leaves many possible ways to formulate it diminishing it's 'miraculousness'. It's also important that from my time studying this thing I found far far more misses than even halfassed hits.

    I could go into more detail on more supposed symmetries but I think this is good for the meantime.
  • Another miracle
     Reply #33 - September 17, 2013, 06:54 PM

    Thanks Recroom, I was wondering do the people that propagate the mathematical miracles actually check, but its what keeps people there. I was presented a load of mathematical miracles and my reply was the methodology can be used to present whatever they like,  but I was told I'm in denial no matter how much evidence I am shown. Sigh.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Another miracle
     Reply #34 - September 18, 2013, 04:29 AM

    We actually have an entire thread on debunking the scientific miracle claims, I think.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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