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Theme Changer

 Topic: Student with questions

 (Read 16977 times)
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  • Student with questions
     Reply #60 - September 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

    Actually I am studying Christian mysticism.


    So why would you say such a thing then. Are you familiar with modern mystics like Lacan, Wittgenstein, Sartre and Deleuze?
  • Student with questions
     Reply #61 - September 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

    I’m studying Rastafarian mysticism. Much more interesting.  yes

  • Student with questions
     Reply #62 - September 26, 2013, 10:01 PM


    The appointment of each of the first four caliphs was different and shows that there is some flexibility when it comes to the issue of succession. Indeed, it is this very flexibility that caused most of the trouble that the early Islamic community faced. The sunni/shia split is the most popular example of this, but there were also splinter groups like the khawarij that emerged from the turmoil as well.

    So, by claiming the title of “caliph” for themselves, the respective rulers and dynasties were seeking to legitimize their respective reigns by harkening back to the Prophet himself.



    I think the issue I am having is what I was taught in my Islamic course is at odds with what history is showing regarding the dynasties. From my view it seems like it became titular in name and spirit. Those that held the title already had a established power base strong enough to seize the title. I look at the Seljuk Turks that used figurehead caliphs while being the true power. I see the different struggles between rival houses, Abbasid and Umayyad for example. The Ottomans used the title here and there while not being part of any of the branch houses tracing their lineage back to the Prophet, unless I missed a dynastic marriage at some point. I believe they gained the title after defeating the Mamluk Sultanate which also used figureheads. Granted I am probably simplifying these power struggles in order to avoid a long drawn out post. Your response seems to confirm my view.

    Im glad the course is free or I would demand my fees back. The more I question what is being taught the more I feel as is I am being taught a rosy light version as Uberslave puts it. It seem like my "professors" are only looking at the surface but refuse to look beneath the surface lest the currents drag them under. Perhaps this is nostalgia for an era long passed that seems at first glance to be a unifying factor of the Muslim persona but in reality is no different than conflicts over Holy Roman Emperor or Defender of the Faith.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #63 - September 26, 2013, 10:09 PM

    Quote
    schizo
    So why would you say such a thing then.


    Because that is what I read.

    Quote
    Are you familiar with modern mystics like Lacan, Wittgenstein, Sartre and Deleuze?



    No I am not familiar with them. I only recently gotten into Christian mysticism. I am more into the contemplative prayer part of it. Coincidently I have two St. Benedict rosaries ( look up St. Benedict of Nursia ). Also been lighting alter candles on a weekly basis.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #64 - September 26, 2013, 11:51 PM

    I think the issue I am having is what I was taught in my Islamic course is at odds with what history is showing regarding the dynasties. From my view it seems like it became titular in name and spirit. Those that held the title already had a established power base strong enough to seize the title. I look at the Seljuk Turks that used figurehead caliphs while being the true power. I see the different struggles between rival houses, Abbasid and Umayyad for example. The Ottomans used the title here and there while not being part of any of the branch houses tracing their lineage back to the Prophet, unless I missed a dynastic marriage at some point. I believe they gained the title after defeating the Mamluk Sultanate which also used figureheads. Granted I am probably simplifying these power struggles in order to avoid a long drawn out post. Your response seems to confirm my view.

    Im glad the course is free or I would demand my fees back. The more I question what is being taught the more I feel as is I am being taught a rosy light version as Uberslave puts it. It seem like my "professors" are only looking at the surface but refuse to look beneath the surface lest the currents drag them under. Perhaps this is nostalgia for an era long passed that seems at first glance to be a unifying factor of the Muslim persona but in reality is no different than conflicts over Holy Roman Emperor or Defender of the Faith.


    Yep. Pretty much exactly this. The caliphate is seen by many as “Allah's government." To suggest that Allah's government was just as fragmented, corrupt, bloody, and human as any other government is a difficult pill to swallow. The exaggerated, romanticized history is an attempt to circumvent reality.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #65 - September 26, 2013, 11:53 PM

    Also been lighting alter candles on a weekly basis.


    I guess we all light up in our own way. My way's better.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #66 - September 26, 2013, 11:54 PM

    Yep. Pretty much exactly this. The caliphate is seen by many as “Allah's government." To suggest that Allah's government was just as fragmented, corrupt, bloody, and human as any other government is a difficult pill to swallow. The exaggerated, romanticized history is an attempt to circumvent reality.


    Large scale 'ignorance is bliss'.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #67 - September 27, 2013, 12:17 AM

    I guess we all light up in our own way. My way's better.


    Ok HM
  • Student with questions
     Reply #68 - September 27, 2013, 12:21 AM

    Are alter candles sort of like anti-candles or something?  Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Student with questions
     Reply #69 - September 27, 2013, 12:54 AM

    lol

    This link should give you an idea of what is lite in my home every week. I lite up one candle every week:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=Religious+candles&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=t9ZEUrjgMIW44AOm74GIDA&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=646&dpr=1

  • Student with questions
     Reply #70 - September 27, 2013, 12:26 PM

    Because that is what I read.I have two St. Benedict rosaries ( look up St. Benedict of Nursia )


    Intercessor against evil, yes?
  • Student with questions
     Reply #71 - September 27, 2013, 06:04 PM

    Hi, my name is Ullu Ka Patha,

    Have you ever been in a rush to get to an eleveator but only made it in time to see the elevator doors close on you?

    Have you ever wanted to lift the toilet seat without ever touching it because there has been a severe case of 'splash back'?

    Or maybe you're just one of those guys who can't be bothered to scratch his testicles no matter how badly they may itch.

    Well, have I got the solution for you.

    Become a Jedi and master the ways of The Force!

    The Force TM is an empiracly verified thing and more than some mystical fairytale. As one highly distinguished unnamed scientist from a university that no longer exists  is purported to have once said:

    'It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.'

    If that's not enough to convince you then you must be spiritually dead!

    So put down those rosary beads, roll up your prayer matt and throw away that reefer because there is a whole new universe waiting for you to explore it.

    PM me right now if you wish to be penetrated by The Force and be well on your way to becoming a Master Jedi.

    May The Force Be With You.


    Whilst stocks last.

    All claims have been exxagerated for comical effect.

    Please PM me as I'm a lonely guy with nothing better to do.



    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Student with questions
     Reply #72 - September 27, 2013, 07:43 PM

    Intercessor against evil, yes?


    He is the Patron Saint for Europe and students.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #73 - September 27, 2013, 07:56 PM

    So like do you get in free with a student ID card or something?
  • Student with questions
     Reply #74 - September 27, 2013, 08:52 PM

    lol

    Are you asking me I am trying to achieve some sort of spiritual utopia or reach heaven through Christian mysticism?
  • Student with questions
     Reply #75 - September 27, 2013, 09:09 PM

    Isn't mysticism knowing that it's all bullshit but pretending that it's not?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Student with questions
     Reply #76 - September 27, 2013, 09:50 PM

    No, that’s apologetics. Mysticism is what ancient people called it when they first discovered drugs. 
  • Student with questions
     Reply #77 - September 27, 2013, 10:22 PM

    Isn't mysticism knowing that it's all bullshit but pretending that it's not?


    Well I'm a faithhead and do not believe it is bullshit.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #78 - September 27, 2013, 10:22 PM

    No, that’s apologetics. Mysticism is what ancient people called it when they first discovered drugs. 


     Cheesy

  • Student with questions
     Reply #79 - October 01, 2013, 07:44 PM

    Anyone have any source material on Women's rights in Islam and under Islamic laws. What I mean is laws that have been documented during past empires as part of their law system. I tried doing some basic searches but I mostly find modern views or reinterpretation in modern light.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #80 - October 01, 2013, 10:27 PM

    You mean from Islamic religious texts?
  • Student with questions
     Reply #81 - October 02, 2013, 12:05 AM

    Not sure if this is what you were looking for but here's a few interesting historical facts.

    Quote
    The Iranian poetess Táhirih was the first modern woman to undertake Qur'anic exegesis. Born and raised in a traditional Muslim family, she would later become a prominent member of the Bábí Faith, during which time she openly denounced polygyny, the wearing of the veil and other restraints put upon women. One of her most notable quotes is her final utterance prior to her execution, "You can kill me as soon as you like, but you cannot stop the emancipation of women."

    Egyptian jurist Qasim Amin, the author of the 1899 pioneering book Women's Liberation (Tahrir al-Mar'a), is often described as the father of the Egyptian feminist movement. In his work, Amin criticized some of the practices prevalent in his society at the time, such as polygyny, the veil, and purdah, i.e. sex segregation in Islam. He condemned them as un-Islamic and contradictory to the true spirit of Islam. His work had an enormous influence on women's political movements throughout the Islamic and Arab world, and is read and cited today.

    Despite Qasim Amin's effects on modern-day Islamic feminist movements, present-day scholar Leila Ahmed considers his works both androcentric and colonialist. Muhammad 'Abdu, an Egyptian nationalist, could easily have written the chapters of his work that show honest considerations of the negative effects of the veil on women. Amin even posed many male-centered misconceptions about women, such as their inability to experience love, that women needlessly (when they had very good reason to) talk about their husbands outside their presence, and that Muslim marriage is based on ignorance and sensuality, of which women were the chief source.

    Less known, however, are the women who preceded Amin in their feminist critique of their societies. The women's press in Egypt started voicing such concerns since its very first issues in 1892. Egyptian, Turkish, Iranian, Syrian and Lebanese women and men had been reading European feminist magazines even a decade earlier, and discussed their relevance to the Middle East in the general press.

    Recently Islamic feminists have begun advocating for equality in the mosque and equality in prayer.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism#Nineteenth_century

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Student with questions
     Reply #82 - October 02, 2013, 02:27 AM

    Anyone have any source material on Women's rights in Islam and under Islamic laws. What I mean is laws that have been documented during past empires as part of their law system. I tried doing some basic searches but I mostly find modern views or reinterpretation in modern light.


    I think you could just find all this in Hadith and Quran. If Islamic laws were applied, there would not be any need to document them under those dynasties, because the laws were not from the dynasties themselves but rather from the Sunnah and Quran. There is no innovation, so there would not be any change in Shariah like there is in Western legal systems that establish precedents. You are looking for references in English? That market is saturated by apologists, good luck.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #83 - October 02, 2013, 02:30 AM

    I guess now I understand where the Tahirih Justice Center in the US got it's name.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #84 - October 02, 2013, 02:32 AM

    I think you could just find all this in Hadith and Quran. If Islamic laws were applied, there would not be any need to document them under those dynasties, because the laws were not from the dynasties themselves but rather from the Sunnah and Quran. There is no innovation, so there would not be any change in Shariah like there is in Western legal systems that establish precedents. You are looking for references in English? That market is saturated by apologists, good luck.


    How women are treated in Muslim societies comes from Islamic religious texts.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #85 - October 02, 2013, 02:34 AM

    Oversimplification there. You're ignoring local cultural influences.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Student with questions
     Reply #86 - October 02, 2013, 02:40 AM

    I think you could just find all this in Hadith and Quran. If Islamic laws were applied, there would not be any need to document them under those dynasties, because the laws were not from the dynasties themselves but rather from the Sunnah and Quran. There is no innovation, so there would not be any change in Shariah like there is in Western legal systems that establish precedents.


    Are you sure about that? I'm reminded of the old jewish joke, you ask two rabbis what judaism is all about and get three different answers. From my observations sharia law is open to interpretation because everyone and their mum says it means something different.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Student with questions
     Reply #87 - October 02, 2013, 03:37 AM

    I think if you have a difference between Madhabs, yes. But within that Madhab, no. But keep in mind that everything I have ever read on it has been in English. This is also assuming that the Shariah court established is going to be true to that Madhab, and not some sort of Loya Jirga hearing where the consensus is agreed upon by a bunch of old guys trying to keep the peace and applying cultural band aids to the issue at hand. I mean, if the Prophet is the Seal, I really can't see some judge today saying, "you know what? Times have changed, let me ignore this part of the Quran and forget what the Prophet said, I think I know better." What is the polite term for this, Ijtihaad? Most just call it Bid'aa. I see plenty of TV crazed sheikhs doing it for the sake of Al Saud. But a Shariah judge? This is a major problem with Islam and Shariah, it being frozen in time. I suppose the courts in Iran today are pretty methodical on Shariah, maybe they have some old records one could get translated. But asking them for it? Foolishness.

    The only woman I know who went before a Shariah court was dragged before a court in the UAE because she was shipping her Jaguar to Jordan, and the judge wanted to make sure she knew it was her car and she could use it wherever she wanted to, that her husband could not force her to send it to their home in Jordan. She assured the court that she knew her rights and she was allowed to submit the paperwork.

    It must be difficult to have a spare Jaguar, is all I got out of that. So glad I am spared such a fate.

    I suppose, after all, I really have nothing to contribute. I don't know anything about ancient court records in foreign languages. I bet China has good records. 

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Student with questions
     Reply #88 - October 02, 2013, 03:53 AM

    I’m studying Rastafarian mysticism. Much more interesting.

    Dub mysticism is more interesting still.

    While Rastas wallowed in liberation thelogy, High Priest Tubby explored the space at the heart of sound.

  • Student with questions
     Reply #89 - October 02, 2013, 04:10 AM

    three, have you seen the CEMB twitter blog account? it's filled with articles, many written by members on their experiences with islam and islamic stories, some amazing posts. happymurtad wrote a fascinating one on why hell isn't real and another on a story of Mo, Toona on being raised to believe in jihad and martyrdom, Luther on stepping out of hijab, etc.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=56.0

    From what little you've said, you sound like you have fascinating experiences that can give insight not only to none muslims looking in, but people from a similar background, perhaps even hope.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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