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Theme Changer

 Topic: Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas

 (Read 3511 times)
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  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     OP - September 13, 2013, 02:38 AM

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/12/texas_creationists_textbook_reviewers_want_more_religion_in_their_science.html
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #1 - September 13, 2013, 05:45 AM

    Fucking hell....
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #2 - September 13, 2013, 07:27 AM

    It is really very possible to teach a great deal of biology without ever mentioning evolution or creation.  For the most part both or either topic are just side points to the important information.
    Perhaps it would be a big issue if a person only had the young earth ideas but if with only that kind of thought likely that person wouldn't be going to higher studies in science. So really who cares if your trash collector or taxi driver or waitress or housekeep is a young earther. Not that there is anything wrong with those careers they just don't need much if any science training. So why fight with the people? Teach your own children whatever you want them to learn at home.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #3 - September 13, 2013, 12:01 PM

    Quote
    It is really very possible to teach a great deal of biology without ever mentioning evolution or creation.

    No it isn't. From a scientific standpoint there is the theory of evolution, which is not 'just a theory' but an overwhelmingly proven one... and then there is creationism. Creationism where effectively banned from public schoolbooks in the US so they went out and rebranded it as Intelligent Design. Some earlier books on creationism where just edited by swapping the words 'creation' to 'ID'.

    Quote
    ...So really who cares if your trash collector or taxi driver or waitress or housekeep is a young earther.

    The kids coming from that education background who are pissed off that they weren't given a proper education and equal opportunities in life?

    I don't think really there is any risk that this will pass though, but I'm starting to think that maybe it's more of a Christian right wing public rite of passage, where you collect points in the group by taking a stand for something. In this case something really silly.

    Here is another group of people that are wrong:
    http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php
    No, this isn't an ironic link but a true group that believes the earth is flat. Should they be allowed control, to any extent, over public school books?

    What would you say if a hippie school started to remove math exercises that contained cases of 'subtraction' because they don't want the pupils to be affected negatively?  piggy
    I've met teachers capable of that level of silly.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #4 - September 13, 2013, 01:46 PM

    It is really very possible to teach a great deal of biology without ever mentioning evolution or creation. 


    I'm not sure this is possible. Most of the beauty and the power of the theory of evolution is apparent precisely in how it can describe all biological systems and organisms with one simple idea. Without evolution, teaching biology will be like teaching astronomy without gravity. It's what keeps it all together.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #5 - September 13, 2013, 02:40 PM

    It is really very possible to teach a great deal of biology without ever mentioning evolution or creation.  For the most part both or either topic are just side points to the important information.
    Perhaps it would be a big issue if a person only had the young earth ideas but if with only that kind of thought likely that person wouldn't be going to higher studies in science. So really who cares if your trash collector or taxi driver or waitress or housekeep is a young earther. Not that there is anything wrong with those careers they just don't need much if any science training. So why fight with the people? Teach your own children whatever you want them to learn at home.


    Grade 11 and 12 Biology, as well as post secondary biology, all teach evolution within the first few classes. Evolution becomes a foundation part of the lectures and labs in my courses in biology and archaeology. Creation is not taught at all here in Canada where the nation has been removing links to religion for decades while America seems to be doing it's best to bring it back. Also keep in mind this is not some sort of prime mover idea, it is directly linked with Christianity. Also from the article it is from a YEC point of view, not a deist or old earth.

    I rather learn,  as well as for any children I have, standing theories than wishful thinking that has no base. Beside how is the course supposed to go? Lecture #1 God did it, class dismissed. Lecture #2 God did it, class dismissed. Will it consist of reading the Bible? Im sure that will go over well in archaeology that has undermined the Bible for decades.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #6 - September 13, 2013, 05:51 PM

    I  am a nurse now. When I was young (before my children) I was a landscape maintenance work for the state of California and working on a degree in agribusiness.(which I didn't finish). Both of those career lines took more then some college science. I went to a math and science high school in Indonesia that didn't teach evolution. Well it mentioned the idea. Growing up I being told that evolution is not provable by the scientific method, 1) can't observe it, 2) no repeatable experiments to check anothers results. That's not to say there is not some interesting information out there about something..
    No it isn't. From a scientific standpoint there is the theory of evolution, which is not 'just a theory' but an overwhelmingly proven one... and then there is creationism. Creationism where effectively banned from public schoolbooks in the US so they went out and rebranded it as Intelligent Design. Some earlier books on creationism where just edited by swapping the words 'creation' to 'ID'.
    The kids coming from that education background who are pissed off that they weren't given a proper education and equal opportunities in life?
    I don't think really there is any risk that this will pass though, but I'm starting to think that maybe it's more of a Christian right wing public rite of passage, where you collect points in the group by taking a stand for something. In this case something really silly.

    There are actual several theories of evolution, as in all evolutionist don't even agree exactly how it could have happened. This is because evolution can't be tested or evaluated by rhe scienitic method. That is not to say that there are not some very bright minds that have put much time into to the developement of the idea.
     Is  your career choice in a sceince field where you use evolution type information regularly?  I never use anything related to it.  Nor do I know anyone who  does.
    Your subtract illustratation was funny because subtration is just adding somethings that aren't there.So LOL no negative in fluence.
    I rather learn,  as well as for any children I have, standing theories than wishful thinking that has no base. Beside how is the course supposed to go? Lecture #1 God did it, class dismissed. Lecture #2 God did it, class dismissed. Will it consist of reading the Bible? Im sure that will go over well in archaeology that has undermined the Bible for decades.

    God did it?
    Even a YEC could think of more then that to say and I don't think real highly of the YEC idea.
    I would rather my children were taught (and they were) as I was useable information. Yes I was very well aware of a wide range of idea. Even many theories of evolution. I however was aware that it was not possible to prove by experiment any of them and the evidence was not absolutely proof by scientific method for any of them.
    Oh and Archaeolgoy hasn't been undermiming the Bible for decades. there are actually some good supporting evidence

    Several of you made comment about children who were raised with this non evolution idea being resentful at their loss of a good education or some such problem. 
    My suggestion to those young people would be to get over it  It would only take a few month to learn enough about evolution to do what ever they needed for entry level college that is if they were over all good students to begin with.What happens to you in high school or lower is by no means the end all of what is going to happen to you in life.  I would never think of making the excuse for not learning about evolution that it would ruin your relationship with God if some day you should deside to have a friendship with him.


     

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #7 - September 13, 2013, 07:26 PM

    Grade 11 and 12 Biology, as well as post secondary biology, all teach evolution within the first few classes. Evolution becomes a foundation part of the lectures and labs in my courses in biology and archaeology. Creation is not taught at all here in Canada where the nation has been removing links to religion for decades while America seems to be doing it's best to bring it back. Also keep in mind this is not some sort of prime mover idea, it is directly linked with Christianity. Also from the article it is from a YEC point of view, not a deist or old earth.

    I rather learn,  as well as for any children I have, standing theories than wishful thinking that has no base. Beside how is the course supposed to go? Lecture #1 God did it, class dismissed. Lecture #2 God did it, class dismissed. Will it consist of reading the Bible? Im sure that will go over well in archaeology that has undermined the Bible for decades.


    Bogart google Answers In Genesis. They probably have their own explanation.

    Creationism and archaeology do not go together.

    As for archaeology undermining the Bible well that depends. There is magazine called Biblical Archaeology Review from the Biblical Archaeology Society.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #8 - September 13, 2013, 07:33 PM

    Quote
    Lynna
    God did it?


    Actually I have a facebook group for Atheists and Theists to debate the existence of God and I help an Atheist friend admin an Atheist and Christian debate group. YEC actually do say God did it.

    Quote
    Several of you made comment about children who were raised with this non evolution idea being resentful at their loss of a good education or some such problem.  
    My suggestion to those young people would be to get over it  It would only take a few month to learn enough about evolution to do what ever they needed for entry level college that is if they were over all good students to begin with.What happens to you in high school or lower is by no means the end all of what is going to happen to you in life.  I would never think of making the excuse for not learning about evolution that it would ruin your relationship with God if some day you should deside to have a friendship with him.


    My Atheist friend was raised in Baptist and was not taught evolution even though his father was a biology teacher. His family were creationists. He made up for his lack of education in the sciences.


     






     
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #9 - September 13, 2013, 10:21 PM

    Growing up I being told that evolution is not provable by the scientific method,

    Scientists cannot help what some people told you when you were young. Has it ever occurred to you that those people may have been wrong?

    Quote
    1) can't observe it, 2) no repeatable experiments to check anothers results.

    Has been observed. Some experiments are repeatable. Others are repeatable and falsifiable in principle, which is what the scientific method actually requires.

    Quote
    That's not to say there is not some interesting information out there about something.

    You mean the overwhelming amount of evidence from a wide range of fields, all of which supports evolution and none of which supports creationism? grin12

    Quote
    There are actual several theories of evolution,

    Ok then, name them. Come on. If they exist, you should be able to name them. Afro

    Quote
    ...as in all evolutionist don't even agree exactly how it could have happened.

    Sure, there is some debate about minor details of the process. Really, what would you expect? They're not all bound to one supposedly holy book. They are free to conduct their own inquiries and to attempt a better reading of the evidence, and even to find new evidence which wasn't available before (like the vast range of feathered dinos that have come out of China in the last decade or so).

    The thing is, scientists studying evolution are prepared to admit errors and learn from their mistakes. Creationists are not.

    Quote
    This is because evolution can't be tested or evaluated by rhe scienitic method.

    Well I hate to break it to you, but there really is an awful lot of scientific testing and evaluation going on, and has been for years.

    Quote
    Is  your career choice in a sceince field where you use evolution type information regularly?  I never use anything related to it.  Nor do I know anyone who  does.

    Ok, but how is that relevant to what should be taught in school science classes? School science classes exist to give kids a good basic grounding in science, should they ever need it later on. Even if they don't go into a particular field, the basics of the scientific method are still handy for assessing any sort of evidence.

    Quote
    Your subtract illustratation was funny because subtration is just adding somethings that aren't there.

    Ok, so your understanding of basic mathematics is as bad as your understanding of basic biology. Tell me, how does having little grasp of either subject qualify you to have an opinion on the content of the school science curriculum?

    Quote
    I would rather my children were taught (and they were) as I was useable information.

    Good. In that case you would be vehemently opposed to children being taught creationism, since in no way is it usable information. OTOH, you would be in favour of evolution being taught in school science classes, since it is useful and usable information. Afro

    Quote
    Oh and Archaeolgoy hasn't been undermiming the Bible for decades. there are actually some good supporting evidence

    Ok then, bring it on. This should be fun. parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #10 - September 13, 2013, 11:20 PM

    Great to have you posting again, Os. Cheesy Afro
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #11 - September 13, 2013, 11:58 PM

    Yeah I know. I'm evil. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #12 - September 14, 2013, 12:38 AM

    Bogart google Answers In Genesis. They probably have their own explanation.

    Creationism and archaeology do not go together.

    As for archaeology undermining the Bible well that depends. There is magazine called Biblical Archaeology Review from the Biblical Archaeology Society.


    Magazines like that are the reason why Archaeology in America is a joke. If you want I can link you a 4 day long conference on the Exodus alone. All the major figures that could make it were there, none supported the out of Egypt model in the Bible. No one has called it Biblical Archaeology for decades except in America. The first books of the Bible has been dismissed in the field as myths, all the way beyond the "conquest" of Canaan

    God did it?
    Even a YEC could think of more then that to say and I don't think real highly of the YEC idea.
    I would rather my children were taught (and they were) as I was useable information. Yes I was very well aware of a wide range of idea. Even many theories of evolution. I however was aware that it was not possible to prove by experiment any of them and the evidence was not absolutely proof by scientific method for any of them.
    Oh and Archaeolgoy hasn't been undermiming the Bible for decades. there are actually some good supporting evidence



    It has been proving parts of the Bible are myth or completely over the top. Exodus, Moses, Conquest of Canaanite, David's great empire, origins of the Hebrews, being strictly monotheists, etc.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #13 - September 14, 2013, 02:19 AM

    Answers in Genesis is a website not a magazine it's a creationist website which I no longer prescribe too because I am not a YEC.

    Biblical Archaeology Review actually covers archaeological digs in the Middle East and they did get contributions reputable archaeologists. This past issue they covered the Caves Of Maresha in Israel, the arguments over a region called Hezekiah's tunnel, the new mosaics from the Huqoq Synagogue. Biblical Archaeology Review is not a creationist magazine, it is the magazine of the Biblical archaeological Society:

    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/about-the-biblical-archaeology-society/

    As for the Caves of Maresha they are found in the book of Joshua.

  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #14 - September 14, 2013, 05:36 AM

    I know all about BAR, but I didnt intend to lump BAR in with creationists. BAR itself has creditable articles but also one that are very questionable. Often it omits opinions of experts that disagree with their articles. Keep in mind the magazine itself is not peer-reviewed nor is every articles. Often articles are mere opinion of the author not peer-reviewed findings.  Archaeology has prove parts of the Bible are true, parts exaggerated and parts that has no current evidence or has counter evidence undermining Biblical stories. Keep in mind Biblical min/max point of views have largely died out over the last decade. BAR doesnt always present this
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #15 - September 14, 2013, 06:45 AM

    I may be mistaken about this, but from what little I know it seems that Texas basically controls the US school textbooks, or am I wrong?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #16 - September 14, 2013, 03:09 PM

    Texas doesn't control US curriculum, it just has a lot of influence and is a bastion of creationism due to the favour shown by the Texas government and school boards. The acceptance of various creationist positions in Texas is used as a rallying point for other states. Beside often teachers are not experts in any field they teach instead relying on teacher's handbooks for their lessons rather than their own knowledge and abilities to teach. This system leads many to consider what one school board does is valid and should be done in others. Also you have teachers that do not follow evolution teaching it as part of their course load. To put it simply the K-12 system is nothing like post-secondary education so these flaws are open to being exploited.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #17 - September 14, 2013, 03:50 PM

    I may be mistaken about this, but from what little I know it seems that Texas basically controls the US school textbooks, or am I wrong?


    Yes that is true. Textbooks that come from Texas are adopted by other states.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #18 - September 14, 2013, 03:50 PM

    I know all about BAR, but I didnt intend to lump BAR in with creationists. BAR itself has creditable articles but also one that are very questionable. Often it omits opinions of experts that disagree with their articles. Keep in mind the magazine itself is not peer-reviewed nor is every articles. Often articles are mere opinion of the author not peer-reviewed findings.  Archaeology has prove parts of the Bible are true, parts exaggerated and parts that has no current evidence or has counter evidence undermining Biblical stories. Keep in mind Biblical min/max point of views have largely died out over the last decade. BAR doesnt always present this


    Fair enough
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #19 - September 14, 2013, 05:45 PM

    Quote from: C1981
    Fair enough


    BAR is still worth reading if you do so. It offers the general public a look into the archaeological world not normally available. You just have to take into account that progress in the field can be very slow often taking theories decades to form just to topple shortly after. Theories also vary a lot when it comes to supporting evidence. At time evidences is so slim it would never stand as a theory in other fields. The field has more shades of gray than black and white.
  • Creationism To Be Included In School Biology Textbooks In Texas
     Reply #20 - September 14, 2013, 08:27 PM

    Yeah I've been getting their magazine for a year now. I am more of a student of the Bible then of archaeology, although I do love to read about history. Took some classes in anthropology several years as they were related to some college trips I took to visit Peru and Ecuador.
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