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 Topic: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook

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  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #30 - September 17, 2013, 11:56 PM
    Quote
    happymurtad
    Jesus Christ. I literally just facepalmed.

    I thought my question was fairly clear. I don’t know how I could have made it clearer. Why would a person’s conclusions regarding the veracity of one dubious ancient story over another be God’s ultimate deciding factor?

     

    My best answer:

    Because one of them could lead them to God.



  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #31 - September 17, 2013, 11:57 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on September 17, 2013, 10:55 PM
    HM, this is the problem I've had with this guy since he first joined.

    How can anyone sit back and laugh at other people's beliefs when their own are equally mental!?

    I feel I'm being too harsh on the guy.


    I'm a female
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #32 - September 18, 2013, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 17, 2013, 11:56 PM


    My best answer:

    Because one of them could lead them to God.






    So, God is like a game show host? Pick a door?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #33 - September 18, 2013, 12:37 AM
    You mean pick a religion to see if it's true? No

    I don't have a good answer to your question.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #34 - September 18, 2013, 12:50 AM
    I accept your honesty.

    There is a verse in the Qur’an that I pondered as I lost my faith in Islam. “God will not cause your faith to go to waste.” The reason why this verse captivated me is because according to all Abrahamic traditions, that is exactly what he will do.

    My conversations with a Sikh student of mine contributed greatly to my loss of faith. It’s not that he convinced me towards Sikhism—far from it. It was that I could sense in him the same sincerity and devotion to his idea of God as I had seen in the many Muslims I had known. It was the same sincerity I had seen in the Christians I had known. Yet, Muslims believed that those who did not accept their version of Allah would not be saved. Christians believed that those who did not accept Jesus Christ would not be saved. Could a loving God, who knew the sincerity of this man’s heart, truly cause his faith to go to waste simply because he was born in India and indoctrinated in Sikhism? Was it his fault that he was not born in Riyadh and indoctrinated in Islam or born in rural New York and indoctrinated into Christianity?


    When I finally lost all faith and came out publically as an apostate, I went to a church service just for the experience. I saw men and women praying and calling to their idea of God, just as I had seen men and women at the Kaaba calling to Allah.

    How could a merciful God be upset by this? How could he not only cause their faith to go to waste, but actually condemn them for it?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #35 - September 18, 2013, 01:08 AM
    According to Christianity God is sad when people loose faith in him. But that does not necessarily believe the person is condemned to Hell.

    To be honest I indoctrinated myself as I came from a nominal Christian family. We only went to Church and that was it. Religion was never mentioned in the home nor did we pray.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #36 - September 18, 2013, 01:42 AM
    You missed the point, I'm afraid. A Hindu believes what he believes with full sincerity. God must know that. How could he be upset by that? A sikh believes with full sincerity, as does a Muslim, as does a Jew, as does a Christian, as does a buddhist. There is no malicious intent in their hearts. God must know this. For him to turn around and reward some for sincerely believing while condemning others for sincerely believing is at odds with all ideas of compassion.

    To make that his sole "get out of jail free card" is ludicrously absurd. Do you not see that?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #37 - September 18, 2013, 01:47 AM
    Because according to Christianity there is no salvation in other religions. The purpose of Christianity is to reconcile people through Jesus Christ.

    Another thing all the major religions of the world contradict each other.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #38 - September 18, 2013, 01:58 AM
    So what if you die and it really turns out to be the Allah of the quran waiting there to judge you? How let down would you feel? How confused would you be? How merciful would you feel that he was if he discriminated against you because of your beliefs?

    Think about that for a moment. Further, think about just how not worried you are about that possibility.


    Can you not see how a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew would feel? Can you not see how that sort of a god could never be called compassionate if he refuses to admit people into his grace solely because of the beliefs they held?
  • Re: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #39 - September 18, 2013, 01:59 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 17, 2013, 11:45 PM
    Well we would have to take a look at the evidence for them ( if there is any )


    I'm curious, what evidence do you have that Christianity (one particular version of it) is the right, correct religion?

    Also, what if one of the 1000s of other religions out there is not a myth, and you picked the wrong one?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #40 - September 18, 2013, 02:11 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on September 18, 2013, 01:58 AM
    So what if you die and it really turns out to be the Allah of the quran waiting there to judge you? How let down would you feel? How confused would you be? How merciful would you feel that he was if he discriminated against you because of your beliefs?

    Think about that for a moment. Further, think about just how not worried you are about that possibility.


    Can you not see how a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew would feel? Can you not see how that sort of a god could never be called compassionate if he refuses to admit people into his grace solely because of the beliefs they held?


    hm that is a bad example and please don't take this the wrong way. If Islam turned out to be true, I would rather go to Hell anyway.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #41 - September 18, 2013, 02:13 AM
    Quote from: allat on September 18, 2013, 01:59 AM
    I'm curious, what evidence do you have that Christianity (one particular version of it) is the right, correct religion?

    Also, what if one of the 1000s of other religions out there is not a myth, and you picked the wrong one?


    There is the archaeological evidence to prove some people, places, and events did occur in the Bible. But other then that it would take faith to believe in Jesus's divinity.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #42 - September 18, 2013, 02:21 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 18, 2013, 02:11 AM
    hm that is a bad example and please don't take this the wrong way. If Islam turned out to be true, I would rather go to Hell anyway.


    No you wouldn't. Islamic hell is beyond horrible.

    It's not a bad example. You are just completely convinced that Islam can not be true, so you don't worry about it. Similarly, millions of muslims are convinced christianity cannot be true. They fully believe that with all their hearts. They believe that believing in Jesus's divinity would be a form of polytheism that would earn God's wrath. If christianity turns out to be true, they will be just as let down and confused as you would be if Islam turned out to be true.

  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #43 - September 18, 2013, 02:24 AM
    Yes I would HM.

    Yes it is a bad example for me if Islam is proven to be true I would rather go to Hell anyway. Yes I know Hell is pretty graphic.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #44 - September 18, 2013, 02:30 AM
    I call your bluff. But since neither of the Middle Eastern fairytales are true, it really doesn't matter anyway.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #45 - September 18, 2013, 02:33 AM
    I don't bluff. I actually say this to Muslims proselytizing. I even can provide a screen shot of myself on fb saying that on thread posted by a Muslim.

    Try using another example.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #46 - September 18, 2013, 02:35 AM
    And since you didn't like that example, what if your born again friend is right? Despite everything you believe, what if god really wanted you to be born again to be saved. How would you feel?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #47 - September 18, 2013, 02:37 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 18, 2013, 02:33 AM
    I don't bluff. I actually say this to Muslims proselytizing. I even can provide a screen shot of myself on fb saying that on thread posted by a Muslim.

    Try using another example.


    I'm not doubting you say it. I'm doubting you would still say it if it turned out to be true. It's only because you completely don't expect it to be true that you have the balls to dismiss it. And that's kinda my point.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #48 - September 18, 2013, 03:00 AM
    HM I realize there is a possibility I am wrong and I would still reject Islam if it turned out to be true.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #49 - September 18, 2013, 03:17 AM
    Islamic hell is designed so that it will break you. If it is true, no one could, let alone would, be able to bear it. But since neither of us believe in Islamic hell, and since you really seem to struggle with the idea of visualizing hypotheticals, I won't continue belaboring the point. I am curious though, to know how you would feel if god was really a young earth creationist, or a Catholic, or a southern baptist, and he was mad at you for not believing correctly.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #50 - September 18, 2013, 03:20 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 18, 2013, 02:13 AM
    There is the archaeological evidence to prove some people, places, and events did occur in the Bible. But other then that it would take faith to believe in Jesus's divinity.


    There is evidence of many stories from religions; Chinese, Greek, Roman, etc.  We have found Troy, does that mean Achilles is the son of a Nymph? Does finding Troy in any way validate Greek religion or figures?  The problem with using archaeology in an attempt to validate a religion is you also have to accept parts it proves is either fiction or happened to another people. Likewise with hard sciences you have to dismiss Adam and Eve as myth, something many Christians I know will never do as this is the Abrahamic faith's Achilles heel. pun intended!. No Adam and Eve, no bloodline. No Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed. All prophets in the big 3 rely on the bloodline to Abraham which in turn relies on the bloodline to Adam in order to validate their claims to prophet-hood.

    I could go on but I will just end with this. If you try to validate religion using science one opens a can of worms that believers must hand-wave away using the same "magic" they attempt to remove by using science in the first place. All one does is move the magic domino one place before the science domino showing it was a useless exercise to begin with.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #51 - September 18, 2013, 03:26 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on September 18, 2013, 03:17 AM
    Islamic hell is designed so that it will break you. If it is true, no one could, let alone would, be able to bear it. But since neither of us believe in Islamic hell, and since you really seem to struggle with the idea of visualizing hypotheticals, I won't continue belaboring the point. I am curious though, to know how you would feel if god was really a young earth creationist, or a Catholic, or a southern baptist, and he was mad at you for not believing correctly.


    I have no problem with Catholicism and Baptist. Family was Baptist for 10 years.

    If God was a Baptist I would question why did the early Church make such huge errors.  I would not feel good about the whole situation.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #52 - September 18, 2013, 03:29 AM
    Quote from: bogart on September 18, 2013, 03:20 AM
    There is evidence of many stories from religions; Chinese, Greek, Roman, etc.  We have found Troy, does that mean Achilles is the son of a Nymph? Does finding Troy in any way validate Greek religion or figures?  The problem with using archaeology in an attempt to validate a religion is you also have to accept parts it proves is either fiction or happened to another people. Likewise with hard sciences you have to dismiss Adam and Eve as myth, something many Christians I know will never do as this is the Abrahamic faith's Achilles heel. pun intended!. No Adam and Eve, no bloodline. No Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed. All prophets in the big 3 rely on the bloodline to Abraham which in turn relies on the bloodline to Adam in order to validate their claims to prophet-hood.

    I could go on but I will just end with this. If you try to validate religion using science one opens a can of worms that believers must hand-wave away using the same "magic" they attempt to remove by using science in the first place. All one does is move the magic domino one place before the science domino showing it was a useless exercise to begin with.


    Unless there is evidence Achilles was son of a nymph I would say no.

    Bogart I am not a Biblical literalist.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #53 - September 18, 2013, 03:32 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 18, 2013, 03:26 AM
    I have no problem with Catholicism and Baptist. Family was Baptist for 10 years.

    If God was a Baptist I would question why did the early Church make such huge errors.  I would not feel good about the whole situation.


    And what if he denied you grace or salvation or whatever the hell it is you're after because of the misunderstanding?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #54 - September 18, 2013, 04:07 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 18, 2013, 03:29 AM
    Unless there is evidence Achilles was son of a nymph I would say no.

    Bogart I am not a Biblical literalist.


    Achilles is a demi-god. He was at the battle of Troy. This is part of his mythos. The story of Troy states Achilles died there. If I use the story of Troy to validate this mythos, as you did with the Bible, Greek religion is true. Also add in the Iliad, as Odysseus was at Troy, along with his mythos. Also Troy is directly link with Roman foundation mythos, Romulus and Remus, so by extension again validates Greek mythology as Roman mythology is from the Etruscans which was assimilated Greek mythology. Greek -> Etruscan -> Roman. Judaism -> Christianity -> Islam. The Bible states Jesus is the son of God but do we have an evidence outside this story that this is true? Just as I am using the story of Troy to validate the claims that Achilles is a demi-god you are using the Bible to validate Jesus' claims. You are using a double-standard over which text is valid evidence or not. Im just trying to point this out.

    Also keep in mind that you are taking archaeological findings out of context. Yes some finding validate stories of the Bible but this does not validate the claims of the Bible wholesale. Findings only validate that which it claims. That X is true for time Y, it does not validate A is true for time B. David does not validate the Conquest of Canaan for example.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #55 - September 18, 2013, 04:15 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on September 17, 2013, 10:55 PM
    How can anyone sit back and laugh at other people's beliefs when their own are equally mental!?


    Are you seriously asking that? You're telling me that you never sat back and laughed at Christianity when you were Muslim (assuming you were)? Do you think that constant mockery of what you believe would help convince you that Islam is not true?

    This reminds me of Hassan's post about how one would rather choose to continue what he/she believes rather than accept something (even if it may be rational) that not only goes against their emotional well-being, but also causes humiliation due to insults and mockery. If it was that easy, no one would be religious anymore.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #56 - September 18, 2013, 04:36 AM
    @Jedi: I still love you though, no intent on attacking you or anything  Wink
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #57 - September 18, 2013, 05:23 AM
    "Alright mate, so you want to buy a car do you? You've come to the right place son, I've got the best deals for miles around. Now, you can have any car you like. All these cars you see? Any one you want, it's yours, for a fair price. But I should warn you, only one of them is in good working order. All the rest are damaged. Now as I said it is your choice which one you buy, but if you buy any except the correctly working one, you will die. The steering will lock, you'll crash, the metal will twist and trap you in place so you have no hope of getting free and the petrol will leak onto the live wires that will most likely fall out of place. You will crash and burn alive, unable to escape. It's an incredibly horrific death, why I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Why am I telling you this? Because I'm an honest seller, that's why. But like I said. You can have any car you like, but only one of them won't bring about a horrific torturous death nightmares are made of. Well, I'm not sure I agree with you that it's not a choice, I've just said it's up to you. Oh, and just so you know, I'm not actually 100% sure which car is the safe one. Good luck sunshine, tell your friends to come on down if you pick right and live to tell the tale."

    Now that's what I call a game of chance.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #58 - September 18, 2013, 01:51 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSZqH0Ms4ds&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #59 - September 18, 2013, 02:30 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on September 17, 2013, 10:31 PM
    The reason for belief being the ultimate get out of "jail free" card is our sins will be taken up by Christ. There is also a transformation process too.

    Don't we have control over what we believe?

    What if they are not myths?

    Betting on infinity
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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