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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why Leaving Islam Is Different

 (Read 5123 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     OP - September 23, 2013, 10:12 AM

    This is something I've been wanting to ask every now and then. From the posters here, and ex-muslims on other places in the world wide web, there's something very special about leaving islam. Being an ex-muslim is different to being an ex-christian for example. And though I'm sure it's not said in a way to demean what others go through (and I've seen some posts which flat out say no offense to ex-whatever) no one quite gets or can relate to an ex-muslim,

    I'm wondering why this is. How come losing faith in islam is different to losing faith in christianity for example? Why is leaving islam different from leaving another religion?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #1 - September 23, 2013, 12:39 PM

    When a Christian leaves their religion, people will come around and try to ‘win them back to the flock’. Then they ignore them. With Islam, however, there is a lunatic minority who believe it their right to physically assault and murder ‘their people’ whose spiritual beliefs no longer coincide with their own.

    That keeps people afraid and compelled, for show at least, to remain culturally muslim.
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #2 - September 23, 2013, 01:46 PM

    ..................Why Leaving Islam Is Different?...................

    ................How come losing faith in islam is different to losing faith in christianity for example? Why is leaving islam different from leaving another religion?

    You don't call that as "Leaving Islam"., It is called Apostasy in Islam..

    Quote
    003.090 : Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.

    003.091 : Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers

    004.088 : What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.

    004.089 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

    005.050 : Is it then the judgment of (the times of) ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure?

    005.051 : O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

    005.052: But you will see those in whose hearts is a disease hastening towards them, saying: We fear lest a calamity should befall us; but it may be that Allah will bring the victory or a punish ment from Himself, so that they shall be regretting on account of what they hid in their souls.

    005.053 : And those who believe will say: Are these they who swore by Allah with the most forcible of their oaths that they were most surely with you? Their deeds shall go for nothing, so they shall become losers.

    005.054: O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.

    009.009 : They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.

    009.010 : They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.

    009.011 : But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

    009.012 : And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

    009.013 : What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

    009.014 : Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    All that is from Allah god.. either follow it or face allah and his believers..  Apostates face it.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #3 - September 23, 2013, 01:53 PM

    Apostasy in Islam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmdsPLsZpV4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXDEXXcvER0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnZviVTXoAA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwhp0bu5ug


    there are plenty of Islamic experts on that subject

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #4 - September 27, 2013, 02:44 AM

    Leaving Islam is also different because there is a certain way to do every single thing in your life as a Muslim. How to walk, how to sit, where to sit. How to wash, when to wash, what to wash. How to sleep, how to wake, what to say before and after. How to eat, what to eat. Every little thing. I cannot think of any thing that is not covered in the Sunnah (guidance) or Shariah (law). When you leave, your structure is gone. There is suddenly no guidance in your life at all. Immediately you have all these choices. So many, that you cannot choose at all.
    It also happens to people who have been under serious mind control. When you give up your free will and allow any one or any thing (Quran, Hadith) to make your decisions for you, you can lose the ability to make your own. You must relearn. In the case of Islam, you must relearn while knowing someone wants to kill you. That making these very choices outside of the Sunnah means you are hated, despised among everyone you used to love and who you thought loved you.
     IMHO

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #5 - September 27, 2013, 02:50 AM

    Three. Don't worry. You aren't alone. There are thousands and thousands of us just like you. Time will heal those wounds and you'll make it out ok, I promise. That last bit of your post resonated with me and I understand where it is coming from, but don't worry. These choices you now have are the basis of your freedom. Enjoy them and don't let anyone take them away.
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #6 - September 27, 2013, 02:59 AM

    Thank you, happymurtad. I won't.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #7 - September 27, 2013, 04:12 AM

    Remember Christians use to exile and kill apostates/heretics too. Except that was wayyyy back in the Dark Ages (Crusaders, Spanish Inquisition etc.). Unlike Islam it got its chicken pox early,(1400s)  and that is all out of Christians system. More proof that Islam is a young religion wayyyyy behind Christianity and Judaism (Only a few thousand years). Islam is still caught up in it's own arrogance.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #8 - September 27, 2013, 04:50 AM

     Afro Historical context folks. I mean if we go by strictly authoritative religious text then Judaism should be as unforgiving to apostasy as Islam nowadays, but it ain't.

    fuck you
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #9 - October 03, 2013, 06:05 AM

    Does anyone think that 50-100 years from now scientologists may be going through something similar? I'm not aware of orders to kill those that leave the religion but from what I've seen there's real threats emotionally, financially, psychologically, etc. And isn't it also true that there are places, I'm thinking Africa, that use both christianity and islam as excuses to commit violence? There's always stories from that part of the world of being thrown out, disowned assaulted and even killed for refusing christ. But here in the west I'd think the armish (well maybe not as it is a voluntary thing and they're given the choice to leave) and orthodox jews would have similar stories to tell. Maybe not the same but similar. Thoughts?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #10 - October 03, 2013, 06:06 AM

    Three. Don't worry. You aren't alone. There are thousands and thousands of us just like you. Time will heal those wounds and you'll make it out ok, I promise. That last bit of your post resonated with me and I understand where it is coming from, but don't worry. These choices you now have are the basis of your freedom. Enjoy them and don't let anyone take them away.


     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #11 - October 03, 2013, 01:42 PM

    This is something I've been wanting to ask every now and then. From the posters here, and ex-muslims on other places in the world wide web, there's something very special about leaving islam. Being an ex-muslim is different to being an ex-christian for example. And though I'm sure it's not said in a way to demean what others go through (and I've seen some posts which flat out say no offense to ex-whatever) no one quite gets or can relate to an ex-muslim,

    I'm wondering why this is. How come losing faith in islam is different to losing faith in christianity for example? Why is leaving islam different from leaving another religion?


    I think it's greatly because of the literal interpretation of the Qur'an, which is actually the most rational interpretation.
    Also, it is ingrained in every aspect of our lives, from the way we eat to the way we wash our sex organs.
    And who can forget about the frequency of eternal torture mentioned in the Qur'an?
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #12 - October 03, 2013, 01:44 PM

    It also happens to people who have been under serious mind control. When you give up your free will and allow any one or any thing (Quran, Hadith) to make your decisions for you, you can lose the ability to make your own. You must relearn. In the case of Islam, you must relearn while knowing someone wants to kill you. That making these very choices outside of the Sunnah means you are hated, despised among everyone you used to love and who you thought loved you.


    This.  Afro
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #13 - October 03, 2013, 02:45 PM

    When a Christian leaves their religion, people will come around and try to ‘win them back to the flock’. Then they ignore them. With Islam, however, there is a lunatic minority who believe it their right to physically assault and murder ‘their people’ whose spiritual beliefs no longer coincide with their own.

    That keeps people afraid and compelled, for show at least, to remain culturally muslim.

     

    In addition

    For those ex muslim living in a muslim country the government  wants to kill/imprison you as well.   

    And in the vast majority of cases getting disowned by family is common as well. 

    That is bad enough without the structure stuff mentioned by three.  Leaving Islam coming out of the closet takes a huge emotional toll on people.   

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #14 - October 03, 2013, 04:21 PM

    This is something I've been wanting to ask every now and then. From the posters here, and ex-muslims on other places in the world wide web, there's something very special about leaving islam. Being an ex-muslim is different to being an ex-christian for example. And though I'm sure it's not said in a way to demean what others go through (and I've seen some posts which flat out say no offense to ex-whatever) no one quite gets or can relate to an ex-muslim,

    I'm wondering why this is. How come losing faith in islam is different to losing faith in christianity for example? Why is leaving islam different from leaving another religion?


    Same as what three said. There were things I used to that I was taught was the Islamic thing to do. It was things like picking up rubbish, holding doors, smiling at people. It's hard figuring what you actually wanna do without feeling like you're being your old robotic self.

    The other thing for me is feeling isolated because I invested the past 20 years of my life to building a good Islamic chaste girl reputation. I'm not gonna pull a Miley on anyone but I can't seem to figure out how to be normal ?_?
    You feel like you don't have friends because no one knows the real you, etc.
    The last bit (for me) which is the worst part, is as a Muslim, you get wrapped up in the anti establishment movement. Now what? Am I supposed to forget the injustices that I've seen. The difference now is that I don't identify as Islam being the answer but unfortunately the world is effed up and no one can do shit about it. I feel like if I grew up as a Xtian or even as a non Arab  I wouldn't be so affected by these issues. I'd be clueless and happy. I feel like everyone's problems (including mine) are so petty. Eg. on one side, I want to stick up for gay people, but then on the other side, I feel like "there are homeless starving people out there right now, why should I care about gay marriage?".
    I duno. If I wasn't exposed to all this stuff as a Muslim I'd be normal.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #15 - October 03, 2013, 04:28 PM

    ...........good Islamic chaste girl reputation. I'm not gonna pull a Miley on anyone ............


    Hmm.....,    "A good Islamic  Hannah Montana to Miley Cyrus" ........

    well that is what is wrong with this world.......

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #16 - October 03, 2013, 04:39 PM

    There are a few key points.  However, let me preface this by saying there are probably 'stricter' communities of other religions who have a harder time leaving than some Muslims.

    1. Islam has a lot of obligations. As a result, it much more inconvenient to just 'pretend'. We must pray 5 times a day, attend Juma in congregation refrain from non-halal meat, not drink or party, not wear various kinds of dress, not stand and pee (believe it or not, some 'beard' hit me with this one the other day when I was at a function)... This is in contrast to say Christianity with once a week prayer is there and maybe refrain from premarital sex... and even that is not as strict as in Islam.

    2. The community structure is there still. America/Europe have much weakened social community aspect and have a significant individual component. You risk being disowned, outcast, and perhaps even violently attacked for leaving Islam.

    3. Depending on your community, Islam is your 'core' identity. You might not have another part of your culture to fall back on as a form of identity. Giving up Islam is almost like giving up who you are.   I'm of Indian origin, but grew up in a heavy Islamic environment. I don't really think of myself as Indian as everything became Islamic.  What is kept of the 'culture' are the parts that mesh well with religion (don't date, take part of family structure, take care of parents...) Whereas, a Catholic in Ireland... can still rely on being awesomely Irisih.

    4. Lack of an internal morality system. This again depends on your community. But Islam places such a high importance on obedience that many people don't develop an internal morality system. So giving that up is hard as well.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #17 - October 03, 2013, 04:44 PM

    ^Great points scamper, especially 3rd.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #18 - October 03, 2013, 06:10 PM



    3. Depending on your community, Islam is your 'core' identity. You might not have another part of your culture to fall back on as a form of identity. Giving up Islam is almost like giving up who you are.   I'm of Indian origin, but grew up in a heavy Islamic environment. I don't really think of myself as Indian as everything became Islamic.  What is kept of the 'culture' are the parts that mesh well with religion (don't date, take part of family structure, take care of parents...) Whereas, a Catholic in Ireland... can still rely on being awesomely Irisih.


    Isn't this one of the most disturbing aspects, how Islam seems to want to extinguish all plurality of identity, and the culture and identity of (non Arab) Muslims? A real hostility to difference.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #19 - October 03, 2013, 11:15 PM

    Does anyone think that 50-100 years from now scientologists may be going through something similar? I'm not aware of orders to kill those that leave the religion but from what I've seen there's real threats emotionally, financially, psychologically, etc. And isn't it also true that there are places, I'm thinking Africa, that use both christianity and islam as excuses to commit violence? There's always stories from that part of the world of being thrown out, disowned assaulted and even killed for refusing christ. But here in the west I'd think the armish (well maybe not as it is a voluntary thing and they're given the choice to leave) and orthodox jews would have similar stories to tell. Maybe not the same but similar. Thoughts?


    This has already happened in the US. In the past there were Puritans, witch hunts, and right now in the Western states with the LDS church. What about Quiverfull? That is Evangelist, I think.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #20 - October 03, 2013, 11:21 PM


    The other thing for me is feeling isolated because I invested the past 20 years of my life to building a good Islamic chaste girl reputation. I'm not gonna pull a Miley on anyone but I can't seem to figure out how to be normal ?_?
    You feel like you don't have friends because no one knows the real you, etc.



    I have the same problem. I spent so many years being "good". What is the point of being good? Being right is better. Now I have to ask myself both to figure out what to do. I work with men, for example. What is "good"? What is "right"? In both cultures in regards to that? It's a lot of analysis. I am sick to death of good. Good messed me up. Decades being good, for what? When I saw how it affected my kids, I changed it. No more am I good. Now I am right.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #21 - October 03, 2013, 11:25 PM


    4. Lack of an internal morality system. This again depends on your community. But Islam places such a high importance on obedience that many people don't develop an internal morality system. So giving that up is hard as well.


    I never thought about that. Good point.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #22 - October 03, 2013, 11:30 PM

    That really always stood out to me, I think in my first post to Seeker I mentioned something about watching atheists debating theists (usually christian or muslim) and in almost every debate the atheist will say to the theist "Would you really go out and murder, rape, steal etc if you lost your belief in god?" And every time the theist will say yes and every time the atheist is surprised by that yes. That always made an impression on me, I found it rather unsettling.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #23 - October 03, 2013, 11:47 PM

    Pretty awful. I never considered this. But maybe it explains puzzling things about some people I used to know who came to the West from Muslim countries. I would see them just go crazy and do everything they were denied, and do it to excess. Perhaps when Muslims come over, they have more restraint because they are still afraid of God, whereas when those non-believers from oppressed Muslim countries got here, they did every legal but deplorable thing because they knew no deity was watching and there would be no legal consequences. I suppose they had never been given reason (for the good of the community) or examples (helping your fellow man to create a better community) to follow other than the fear of God.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #24 - October 03, 2013, 11:54 PM

    My morality has nothing to do with god. The thing about me is that I never really believed. I always decided for myself what was good, and being good because you're afraid of being punished if you don't...well to me that's not moral. When you're good and you consider how your actions may affect other people because it's the right thing to do, that's morality. A lot of religious people just do not seem to understand this. I don't really see compassion or love for your fellow man, just fear of being tortured by an all seeing big brother.

    Pretty much why it always puzzled me when religious people try to claim the moral high ground solely because they're religious. I'm glad people are commenting on this thread, it's really eye opening.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #25 - October 04, 2013, 12:04 AM

    Yes. I agree.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #26 - October 04, 2013, 12:07 AM

    That really always stood out to me, I think in my first post to Seeker I mentioned something about watching atheists debating theists (usually christian or muslim) and in almost every debate the atheist will say to the theist "Would you really go out and murder, rape, steal etc if you lost your belief in god?" And every time the theist will say yes and every time the atheist is surprised by that yes. That always made an impression on me, I found it rather unsettling.

    I know they say it, but I'm not at all sure that they mean it. I think a lot of them just say it because if they didn't, they'd have to admit their original point (ie: religion being necessary for some degree of civilised behaviour) made no sense.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #27 - October 04, 2013, 12:14 AM

    Maybe they don't realise? If you were raised with not a huge focus of inner morality, just a fear of a god, how would you go about conducting your life if you lost that fear? Seems a really fucked up way to raise someone.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #28 - October 04, 2013, 12:25 AM

    I know they say it, but I'm not at all sure that they mean it. I think a lot of them just say it because if they didn't, they'd have to admit their original point (ie: religion being necessary for some degree of civilised behaviour) made no sense.


    Ah. Sneaky. I bet you are onto something here.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Why Leaving Islam Is Different
     Reply #29 - October 04, 2013, 12:26 AM

    Maybe they don't realise? If you were raised with not a huge focus of inner morality, just a fear of a god, how would you go about conducting your life if you lost that fear? Seems a really fucked up way to raise someone.

    Yeah but I have noticed that when religious people lose their faith, they usually don't turn into rapists and murderers. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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