Doubt

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OP - September 23, 2013, 08:31 PM

I don't know why. Maybe it's to do with the melancholy weather or the sudden dawn that life is passing me by, but I've been in a very reflective mood.

Despite the fact that I've left Islam, I still find myself having to come to terms with the loss of faith and God. I always ask myself how did it all start? From where did it all begin? What was the genesis of my kufr?

And it all started with doubt.

I looked up the religion and asked myself, if Allah truly asks us to doubt and if we disbelieve in him, sincerely disbelieve in Him, then what sense is there in punishing us? If my doubting is sincere, and it truly is, (there is no more a question that I have genuinely agonised over than Allah's existence), then why should I endure His Wrath? He made it that way. Qudrat si.

I tried to put these feelings into words that expressed both my disappointment and liberation with the notion outlined above. I couldn't write an essay, as I'm not much of a writer. The only outlet I could find is this. A simple question to the Almighty, if He is listening at all:

Doubt

You created a mind,
A doubters mind,
To doubt,
And doubt his doubting,

When doubts are found,
Undoubtedly sound,
Why curse the doubter,
For doubt and doubting?

The above just encapsulates all that I feel about Allah and Islam.

I don't care for anyone saying that I need to read the Qur'an, or reinterpret a hadith or seek a scholars advice on a particular Qur'anic ayat. I doubt, and this doubting is enough for me to not believe.

Even if my doubting is born out of ignorance, it is a sincere doubt nevertheless. Not the doubt out of spite, or stubbornness or the other afflictions of the Ego. But it is a genuine doubt that needs no more justification than those that say 'you have to have faith'.

I doubt, and in this I have the single Greatest Emancipator of Human Suffering.

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Reply #1 - September 23, 2013, 08:48 PM

A very moving post

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #2 - September 23, 2013, 10:52 PM

Your point makes wonderful sense. In fact, according to the qur’an it is allah itself that seals the hearts of disbelievers. This refrain is repeated throughout ad nauseam. So it is built into the religion itself that doubt is something a person cannot help — and yet allah casts into hell those whose heart it seals up itself! Demented…
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Reply #3 - September 23, 2013, 11:24 PM

The whole concept of basing rewards and punishments on people’s beliefs is so ridiculously silly. God must realize that.
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Reply #4 - September 23, 2013, 11:34 PM

No, HM, he can't. He would realize himself out of existence.

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Reply #5 - September 24, 2013, 07:46 AM

Once you realise how stupid your god is, god dies. You know, assuming the gods only exist in the human mind which I'm pretty sure of.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #6 - September 24, 2013, 03:07 PM

Lovely poem
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Reply #7 - September 27, 2013, 06:23 PM

Quote from: Luthiel on September 23, 2013, 11:34 PM
No, HM, he can't. He would realize himself out of existence.

That's a philosophical paradox. If Allah is able to do all things is He able to Doubt His own existence? Do you ever think that God ever asks Himself? 'What if all this is a dream?'

Doubting is an essential aspect of life. It is what makes us ueven more unique than all the otehr species: our capacity to doubt and communicate this doubt to others. To doubt is the highest achievemtn of the human intellect for it requires challenge, motivation and perserverance of the aprt of the doubter and one comes out stronger. If God is unable to doubt then He is intellectually inferior to us humans. No?

But how does one define 'doubt' and how does it differ from skepticism?

When did you first begin to doubt?

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Reply #8 - September 27, 2013, 06:44 PM

Well, I wasn't talking about doubt. The god of the Qur'an bases rewards and punishments on people's beliefs. If he realized such a system is ridiculously silly, and thus stopped doing it, he would cease to exist as the god of the Qur'an.

But you raise a good point. Does the ability to doubt make humans intellectually superior to god? If god knows all, then he has no need of doubt. But that kind of intellect would be fundamentally different from human intellect. Unable (by virtue of knowing all) to doubt, and thus unable to change or grow, sounds rather robotic.

The god of the Qur'an is a robot.

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Reply #9 - September 27, 2013, 06:49 PM

Precisely Luthiel.

A criminal can doubt, a pervert can doubt, even George Bush can doubt....but Allah can not doubt.

Therefore, is Allah inferior to the above aforementioned character?

The ability to doubt is not an imperection. It is a necessity.

But can a perfectly perfect being have no need to doubt? But, no thoughts could ever occur without the ability to doubt as all actions rely upon an element of doubt.

If Allah is perfectly beyond doubt then His perfection is of a standard that is sub part o the human intellect.

Come on apologists, let's have it!

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Reply #10 - September 27, 2013, 07:14 PM

But God is All-Knowing, so the very concept of doubt is useless for God (at least within the context of knowledge).
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Reply #11 - September 27, 2013, 07:33 PM

But how does one acquire this knowledge?

Knowledge comes with experience no?

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Reply #12 - September 27, 2013, 07:40 PM

Not if you're Allah. He is speshul.
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Reply #13 - September 27, 2013, 08:35 PM

If Allah feels Anger, does He too feel Fear and if He has Fear does not Doubt?

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Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

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