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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Galileo Affair

 (Read 6586 times)
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  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #30 - September 26, 2013, 09:56 AM

    If you look above myself and the Colonel answered you. It's the difference between being a critic and a bigot.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #31 - September 26, 2013, 12:19 PM

    If you look above most myself and the Colonel answered you. It's the difference between being a critic and a bigot.

    Thick lines are easy to see for the naked eye but  there is a very thin line between the two  .. people often go cross the lines ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #32 - September 28, 2013, 12:11 AM

    Here is a detailed article on the subject matter that debunks a lot of the nonsense commonly believed about the whole affair. 
    http://www.quora.com/History/What-is-the-most-misunderstood-historical-event/answer/Tim-ONeill-1?srid=iGfr&share=1

  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #33 - September 28, 2013, 12:17 AM

    Thanks
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #34 - September 28, 2013, 08:55 AM

    Here is a detailed article on the subject matter that debunks a lot of the nonsense commonly believed about the whole affair. 
    http://www.quora.com/History/What-is-the-most-misunderstood-historical-event/answer/Tim-ONeill-1?srid=iGfr&share=1




    Cool, and not one of the sources cites the book of a notorious hatemonger. Go figure!

    fuck you
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #35 - September 28, 2013, 03:36 PM

    QSE I haven't forgotten about getting respectable resources. Will post them soon.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #36 - September 28, 2013, 03:46 PM

     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #37 - September 28, 2013, 05:58 PM

    It should be obvious to anyone who stops and thinks for a minute that the Galileo affair wasn't quite as simple as the pop history version.  After all, its common knowledge that Copernicus said exactly the same thing a few years earlier, and Copernicus was never imprisoned for it. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #38 - September 28, 2013, 06:38 PM

    Copernicus had the good sense to delay publication of his work until after his death - he also had the services of Osiander to write an apologetic preface stressing that his theories were not to be taken as theologically controversial ( in spite of the fact that they quite obviously were ).
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #39 - September 28, 2013, 07:10 PM

    The Church hierarchy, up to and including the Pope, were well aware of Copernicus and his theories as early as 1533.  He didn't die until 1543.  There was no attempt to try him for heresy in the intervening ten years, which there surely would have been if heliocentrism itself was heretical. 

    Contrary to the pop psychology version, there were those in the Church who supported the theory and those in the scientific establishment of the day who dismissed it as nonsense.  Galileo upset the scientific ones as well the religious opponents when he published his work.  So, not quite as black and white as history has painted it.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #40 - September 28, 2013, 07:13 PM

    No, but his work was found to be heretical in the end. Besides, the GG Allin song I posted upthread contradicts what you're sayin.

    fuck you
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #41 - September 28, 2013, 07:23 PM

    I bow before the theological and historical expertise of GG Allin.   mysmilie_977

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #42 - September 28, 2013, 07:43 PM

    The Church hierarchy, up to and including the Pope, were well aware of Copernicus and his theories as early as 1533.  He didn't die until 1543.  There was no attempt to try him for heresy in the intervening ten years, which there surely would have been if heliocentrism itself was heretical. 

    Contrary to the pop psychology version, there were those in the Church who supported the theory and those in the scientific establishment of the day who dismissed it as nonsense.  Galileo upset the scientific ones as well the religious opponents when he published his work.  So, not quite as black and white as history has painted it.


    I didn't know Galileo also upset the scientific community at the time.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #43 - September 28, 2013, 08:47 PM

    I bow before the theological and historical expertise of GG Allin.   mysmilie_977


     Afro

    fuck you
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #44 - September 28, 2013, 09:42 PM

    Here is a detailed article on the subject matter that debunks a lot of the nonsense commonly believed about the whole affair. 
    http://www.quora.com/History/What-is-the-most-misunderstood-historical-event/answer/Tim-ONeill-1?srid=iGfr&share=1


    Yes, it does debunk some misapprehensions, Galileo was not tortured, but it remains true that the Inquisition did order that he be shown the instruments of torture. A very clear and unsubtle threat. Also, Copernicus' book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, remained on The Index (of books that no Roman Catholic might possess, far less read, on pain of excommunication) until 1820. So the Church was far from being squeaky clean in the affair.

     
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #45 - September 28, 2013, 09:48 PM

    I've never heard anyone claim that he was tortured. Dunno where they would have gotten that idea. He was arrested and threatened with torture, which is bad enough.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #46 - September 29, 2013, 08:54 AM

    No, but his work was found to be heretical in the end. Besides.


    They weren't.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #47 - September 29, 2013, 09:07 AM

    Yes, it does debunk some misapprehensions, Galileo was not tortured, but it remains true that the Inquisition did order that he be shown the instruments of torture. A very clear and unsubtle threat.

    Any evidence for this? Normal Inquisitorial procedure forbids the use of torture on those of an advanced age. 

    Also, Copernicus' book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, remained on The Index (of books that no Roman Catholic might possess, far less read, on pain of excommunication) until 1820.

     Um no
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #48 - September 29, 2013, 02:09 PM

    Not quite as simple as that - in 1616 the church requires that a "corrected" version of De Revolutionibus be made - this is done in 1620. The "corrected" version removes the heliocentric elements, and the original version remains on the index until 1835.

    There are a variety of documents from 1616 that state quite unequivocally that heliocentrism, as outlined by Copernicus and used by Galileo, is contrary to scipture and therefore heretical, and that the publication and dissemination of such ideas are to be suppressed. That the RC church progressively loses the power, and to some extent the will, to enforce this is a second order question.

    More broadly - whilst there is some merit in the suggestion that the RC church had a reasonable philosophical point regarding the "provability" of Copernicus's theories, the outright ban on the publication and dissemination of such ideas has as an inevitable and foreseeable corollary the impossibility of ever doing so, as it stifles the possibility of undertaking the inquiries necessary.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #49 - September 29, 2013, 02:45 PM

    "The "corrected" version removes the heliocentric elements"

    It doesn't, anything that suggested the heliocentric model was in anyway factual were altered to portray it as a hypothesis, that's it. It must be understood that at the time it was impossible for Copernicus or anyone else for that matter to actually prove the Earth orbited around the sun.

    "There are a variety of documents from 1616 that state quite unequivocally that heliocentrism, as outlined by Copernicus and used by Galileo, is contrary to scipture and therefore heretical,"

    Could you point these documents out?

    "and that the publication and dissemination of such ideas are to be suppressed."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaus_von_Sch%C3%B6nberg
    Read the letter penned by Schönberg, if a cardinal is enthusiastically encouraging you to publish your theories it's hardly an indication that your views are heretical.





  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #50 - September 29, 2013, 03:19 PM

    Frollo

    Check out Finocchiaro's the Galileo Affair: A Documentary History (1989).
     
    24/2/1616, Assessment made at the Holy Office, Rome.
    Prop 1: The sun is the center of the world and is completely devoid of local motion
    Assessment: All said that this proposition is foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of holy scripture....
    Prop2: The earth is not the center of the world, nor motionless, but it moves as a whole and also with diurnal motion.
    Assessment: broadly as per proposition one ( I'm paraphrasing - but go look at the actual documents ).

    These findings are repeated on 22/6/1633 at the formal sentencing of Galileo - ie the two propositions are declared to be heretical.
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #51 - September 29, 2013, 03:48 PM

    Frollo

    The RC church hadn't declared these ideas to be heretical when von Schonberg wrote ( he died in 1537 ), for the simple reason that it had yet to address the issue. That in no way alters the fact that a century after von Schonberg had died, the church emphatically did declare such ideas to be contrary to scripture, and therefore heretical,  placed the original "uncorrected" version of de Revolutionibus on the index, and formally banned the teaching, publication and dissemination of such ideas ( this is implicit in declaring something to be heresy ).

    Novel ideas can't be deemed heresy a priori - the declaration of heresy is the product of institutionalised bureaucratic decisions made in contingent historical circumstances. For example, could the RC church declare the theory of evolution to be heresy prior to its articulation by Charles Darwin? Of course not.

  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #52 - September 29, 2013, 04:11 PM

    Cardinal Bellarmine's certificate, 26/5/1616

    "He ( Galileo ) has only been notified of the declaration made by the Holy Father and published by the Sacred Congregation of the Index, whose content is that the doctrine attributed to Copernicus ( that the earth moves around the sun and the sun stands at the centre of the world without moving from East to West ) is contrary to Holy Scripture and therefore cannot be defended or held."
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #53 - August 20, 2015, 06:01 AM

    Copernicus had the good sense to delay publication of his work until after his death - he also had the services of Osiander to write an apologetic preface stressing that his theories were not to be taken as theologically controversial ( in spite of the fact that they quite obviously were ).


    Quote
    Nicholas Copemicus
    (1473-1543)
    That Nicholas Copernicus delayed until near death to publish De revolutionibus has been taken as a sign
    that he was well aware of the possible furor his work might incite; certainly his preface to Pope Paul III
    anticipates many of the objections it raised. But he could hardly have anticipated that he would
    eventually become one of the most famous people of all time on the basis of a book that comparatively
    few have actually read (and fewer still understood) in the 450 years since it was first printed.
    Copernicus was bom into a well-to-do mercantile family in 1473, at Torun, Poland. After the death of his
    father, he was sponsored by his uncle, Bishop Watzenrode, who sent him first to the University of
    Krakow, and then to study in Italy at the universities of Bologna, Padua and Ferrara. His concentrations
    there were law and medicine, but his lectures on the subject at the University of Rome in 1501 already
    evidenced his interest in astronomy. Returning to Poland, he spent the rest of his life as a church canon
    under his uncle, though he also found time to practice medicine and to write on monetary reform, not to
    mention his work as an astronomer.
    In 1514, Copernicus privately circulated an outline of his thesis on planetary motion, but actual
    publication of De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres)
    containing his mathematical proofs did not occur until 1543, after a supporter named Rheticus had
    impatiently taken it upon himself to publish a brief description of the Copernican system (Narratio
    prima) in 1541. Most of De revolutionibus requires a great deal of the modem reader, since sixteenth
    century methods of mathematical proofs are quite foreign to us; this is evident in the section of Book VI
    that is included. However, Book I and Copernicus' preface are more readily accessible. It must be noted
    that the foreword by Andreas Osiander was not authorized Copernicus, and that Osiander, who oversaw
    the book's printing, included it without the author's knowledge and without identifying Osiander as its
    author.


    Quote
    NICHOLAS COPERNICUS
    OF TORUÑ
    SIX BOOKS ON
    THE REVOLUTIONS OF THE HEAVENLY
    SPHERES
    Diligent reader, in this work, which has just been
    created and published, you have the motions of the
    fixed stars and planets, as these motions have been
    reconstituted on the basis of ancient as well as recent
    observations, and have moreover been embellished by
    new and marvelous hypotheses. You also have most
    convenient tables, from which you will be able to
    compute those motions with the utmost case for any
    time whatever. Therefore buy, read, and enjoy [this
    work].
    Let no one untrained in geometry enter here.
    NUREMBERG
    JOHANNES PETREIUS
    1543
    XIX


    Quote
    [FOREWORD BY ANDREAS OSIANDER
    To the Reader
    Concerning the Hypotheses of this Work
    There have already been widespread reports about the novel hypotheses of this
    work, which declares that the earth moves whereas the sun is at rest in the center
    of the universeHence certain scholars, I have no doubt, are deeply offended and
    believe that the liberal arts, which were established long ago on a sound basis,
    should not be thrown into confusion. But if these men are willing to examine the
    matter closely, they will find that the author of this work has done nothing blameworthy. For it is the duty of an astronomer to compose the history of the
    celestial motions through careful and expert study. Then he must conceive and
    devise the causes of these motions or hypotheses about them. Since he cannot in
    any way attain to the true causes, he will adopt whatever suppositions enable the
    motions to be computed correctly from the principles of geometry for the future as
    well as for the past. The present author has performed both these duties
    excellently. For these hypotheses need not be true nor even probable. On the
    contrary, if they provide a calculus consistent with the observations, that alone is
    enough. Perhaps there is someone who is so ignorant of geometry and optics that
    he regards the epicyclc of Venus as probable, or thinks that it is the reason why
    Venus sometimes precedes and sometimes follows the sun by forty degrees and
    even more. Is there anyone who is not aware that from this assumption it
    necessarily follows that the diameter of the planet at perigee should appear more
    than four times, and the body of the planet more than sixteen times, as great as at
    apogee? Yet this variation is refuted by the experience of every age. In this science
    there are some other no less important absurdities, which need not be set forth at
    the moment. For this art, it is quite clear, is completely and absolutely ignorant of
    the causes of the apparent nonuniform motions. And if any causes are devised by
    the imagination, as indeed very many are, they are not put forward to convince
    anyone that are true, but merely to provide a reliable basis for computation.
    However, since different hypotheses are sometimes offered for one and the same
    motion (for example, eccentricity and an epicycle for the sun's motion), the
    astronomer will take as his first choice that hypothesis which is the easiest to
    grasp. The philosopher will perhaps rather seek the semblance of the truth. But
    neither of them will understand or state anything certain, unless it has been
    divinely revealed to him.
    Therefore alongside the ancient hypotheses, which are no more probable, let us
    permit these new hypotheses also to become known, especially since they are
    admirable as well as simple and bring with them a huge treasure of very skillful
    observations. So far as hypotheses are concerned, let no one expect anything
    certain from astronomy, which cannot furnish it, lest he accept as the truth ideas
    conceived for another purpose, and depart from this study a greater fool than when
    he entered it. Farewell.
    XX


    Quote
    LETTER OF NICHOLAS SCHÖNBERG
    Nicholas Schönberg, Cardinal of Capua,
    to Nicholas Copernicus, Greetings.
    Some years ago word reached me concerning your proficiency, of which everybody constantly spoke. At that time I began to have a very high regard for
    you, and also to congratulate our contemporaries among whom you enjoyed such
    great prestige. For I had learned that you had not merely mastered the discoveries
    of the ancient astronomers uncommonly well but had also formulated a new
    cosmology. In it you maintain that the earth moves; that the sun occupies the
    lowest, and thus the central, place in the universe; that the eighth heaven remain
    perpetually motionless and fixed; and that, together with the elements included in
    its sphere, the moon, situated between the heavens of Mars and Venus, revolves
    around the sun in the period of a year. I have also learned that you have written an
    exposition of this whole system of astronomy, and have computed the planetary
    motions and set them down in tables, to the greatest admiration of all. Therefore
    with the utmost earnestness I entreat you, most learned sir, unless I inconvenience
    you, to communicate this discovery of yours to scholars, and at the earliest
    possible moment to send me your writings on the sphere of the universe together
    with the tables and whatever else you have that is relevant to this subject.
    Moreover, I have instructed Theodoric of Reden to have everything copied in your
    quarters at my expense and dispatched to me. If you gratify my desire in this
    matter, you will see that you are dealing with a man who is zealous for your
    reputation and eager to do justice to so fine a talent. Farewell.
    Rome, 1 November 1536
    XXI


    Quote
    TO HIS HOLINESS, POPE PAUL III,
    NICHOLAS COPERNICUS' PREFACE
    TO HIS BOOKS ON THE REVOLUTIONS
    I can readily imagine, Holy Father, that as soon as some people hear that in this
    volume, which I have written about the revolutions of the spheres of the universe, I
    ascribe certain motions to the terrestrial globe, they will shout that I must be
    immediately repudiated together with this belief For I am not so enamored of my
    own opinions that I disregard what others may think of them. I am aware that a
    philosopher's ideas are not subject to the judgement of ordinary persons, because it
    is his endeavor to seek the truth in all things, to the extent permitted to human
    reason by God. Yet I hold that completely erroneous views should be shunned.
    Those who know that the consensus of many centuries has sanctioned the
    conception that the earth remains at rest in the middle of the heaven as its center
    would, I reflected, regard it as an insane pronouncement if I made the opposite
    assertion that the earth moves. Therefore I debated with myself for a long time
    whether to publish the volume which I wrote to prove the earth's motion or rather
    to follow the example of the Pythagoreans and certain others, who used to transmit
    philosophy's secrets only to kinsmen and friends, not in writing but by word of
    mouth, as is shown by Lysis' letter to Hipparchus. And they did so, it seems to me,
    not, as some suppose, because they were in some way jealous about their
    teachings, which would be spread around; on the contrary, they wanted the very
    beautiful thoughts attained by great men of deep devotion not to be ridiculed by
    those who are reluctant to exert themselves vigorously in any literary pursuit
    unless it is lucrative; or if they are stimulated to the nonacquisitive study of
    philosophy by the exhortation and example of others, yet because of their dullness
    of mind they play the same part among philosophers as drones among bees. When
    I weighed these considerations, the scorn which I had reason to fear on account of
    the novelty and unconventionality of my opinion almost induced me to abandon
    completely the work which I had undertaken.
    But while I hesitated for a long time and even resisted, my friends drew me back.
    Foremost among them was the cardinal of Capua, Nicholas Schönberg, renowned
    in every field of learning. Next to him was a man who loves me dearly, Tiedemann
    Giese, bishop of Chelmno, a close student of sacred letters as well as of all good
    literature. For he repeatedly encouraged me and, sometimes adding reproaches,
    urgently requested me to publish this volume and finally permit it to appear after
    being buried among my papers and lying concealed not merely until the ninth year
    but by now the fourth period of nine years. The same conduct was recommended
    to me by not a few other very eminent scholars. They exhorted me no longer to
    refuse, on account of the fear which I felt, to make my work available for the
    general use of students of astronomy. Ile crazier my doctrine of the earth's motion
    now appeared to most people, the argument ran, so much the more admiration and
    thanks would it gain after they saw the publication of my writings dispel the fog of
    absurdity by most luminous proofs. Influenced therefore by these persuasive men
    and by this hope, in the end I allowed my friends to bring out an edition of the
    volume, as they had long besought me to do.
    However, Your Holiness will perhaps not be greatly surprised that I have dared to
    publish my studies after devoting so much effort to working them out that I did not
    hesitate to put down my thoughts about the earth's motion in written fcrm too. But
    you are rather waiting to hear from me how it occurred to me to venture to
    conceive any motion of the earth, against the traditional opinion of astronomers
    and almost against common sense. I have accordingly no desire to from Your
    Holiness that I was impelled to consider a different system of deducing the
    motions of the universe's spheres for no other reason than the realization that
    astronomers do not agree among themselves in their investigations of this subject.
    For, in the first place, they are so uncertain about the motion of the sun and moon
    that they cannot establish and observe a constant length even for the tropical year.
    Secondly, in determining the motions not only of these bodies but also of the other
    five planets, they do not use the same principles, assumptions, and explanations of
    the apparent revolutions and motions. For while some employ only homocentrics, others utilize eccentrics and epicycles, and yet they do not quite reach their goal.
    For although those who put their faith in homocentrics showed that some
    nonuniform motions could be compounded in this way, nevertheless by this means
    they were unable to obtain any incontrovertible result in absolute agreement with
    the phenomena. On the other hand, those who devised the eccentrics seem thereby
    in large measure to have solved the problem of the apparent motions with
    appropriate calculations. But meanwhile they introduced a good many ideas which
    apparently contradict the first principles of uniform motion. Nor could they elicit
    or deduce from the eccentrics the principal consideration, that is, the structure of
    the universe and the true symmetry of its parts. On the contrary, their experience
    was just like some one taking from various places hands, feet, a head, and other
    pieces, very well depicted, it may be, but not for the representation of a single
    person; since these fragments would not belong to one another at all, a monster
    rather than a man would be put together from them. Hence in the process of
    demonstration or "method", as it is called, those who employed eccentrics are
    found either to have omitted something essential or to have admitted something
    extraneous and wholly irrelevant. This would not have happened to them, had they
    followed sound principles. For if the hypotheses assumed by them were not false,
    everything which follows from their hypotheses would be confirmed beyond any
    doubt. Even though what I am now saying may be obscure, it will nevertheless
    become clearer in the proper place.
    For a long time, then, I reflected on this confusion in the astronomical traditions
    concerning the derivation of the motions of the universe's spheres. I began to be
    annoyed that the movements of the world machine, created for our sake by the best
    and most systematic Artisan of all, were not understood with greater certainty by
    the philosophers, who otherwise examined so precisely the most insignificant
    trifles of this world. For this reason I undertook the task of rereading the works of
    all the philosophers which I could obtain to learn whether anyone had ever
    proposed other motions of the universe's spheres than those expounded by the
    teachers of astronomy in the schools. And in fact first I found in Cicero that
    Hicetas supposed the earth to move. Later I also discovered in Plutarch that certain
    others were of this opinion. I have decided to set his words down here, so that they
    may be available to everybody:
    Some think that the earth remains at rest. But Philolaus the Pythagorean believes
    that, like the sun and moon, it revolves around the fire in an oblique circle.
    Heraclides of Pontus, and Ecphantus the Pythagorean make the earth move, not in
    a progressive motion, but like a wheel in a rotation from west to east about its own
    center.
    Therefore, having obtained the opportunity from these sources, I too began to
    consider the mobility of the earth. And even though the idea seemed absurd,
    nevertheless I knew that others before me had been granted the freedom to imagine
    any circles whatever for the purpose of explaining the heavenly phenomena.
    Hence I thought that I too would be readily permitted to ascertain whether explanations sounder than those of my predecessors could be found for the
    revolution of the celestial spheres on the assumption of some motion of the earth.
    Having thus assumed the motions which I ascribe to the earth later on in the
    volume, by long and intense study I finally found that if the motions of the other
    planets are correlated with the orbiting of the earth, and are computed for the
    revolution of each planet, not only do their phenomena follow therefrom but also
    the order and size of all the planets and spheres, and heaven itself is so linked
    together that in no portion of it can anything be shifted without disrupting the
    remaining parts and the universe as a whole. Accordingly in the arrangement of
    the volume too I have adopted the following order. In the first book I set forth the
    entire distribution of the spheres together with the motions which I attribute to the
    earth, so that this book contains, as it were, the general structure of the universe.
    Then in the remaining books I correlate the motions of the other planets and of all
    the spheres with the movement of the earth so that I may thereby determine to
    what extent the motions and appearances of the other planets and spheres can be
    saved if they are correlated with the earth's motions. I have no doubt that acute and
    learned astronomers will agree with me if, as this discipline especially requires,
    they are willing to examine and consider, not superficially but thoroughly, what I
    adduce in this volume in proof of these matters. However, in order that the
    educated and uneducated alike may see that I do not run away from the judgement
    of anybody at all, I have preferred dedicating my studies to Your Holiness rather
    than to anyone else. For even in this very remote comer of the earth where I live
    you are considered the highest authority by virtue of the loftiness of your office
    and your love for all literature and astronomy too. Hence by your prestige and
    judgement you can easily suppress calumnious attacks although, as the proverb has
    it, there is no remedy for a backbite.
    Perhaps there will be babblers who claim to be judges of astronomy although
    completely ignorant of the subject and, badly distorting some passage of Scripture
    to their purpose, will dare to find fault with my undertaking and censure it. I
    disregard them even to the extent of despising their criticism as unfounded. For it
    is not unknown that Lactantius, otherwise an illustrious writer but hardly an
    astronomer, speaks quite childishly about the earth's shape, when he mocks those
    who declared that the earth has the form of a globe. Hence scholars need not be
    surprised if any such persons will likewise ridicule me. Astronomy is written for
    astronomers. To them my work too will seem, unless I am mistaken, to make some
    contribution also to the Church, at the head of which Your Holiness now stands.
    For not so long ago under Leo X the Lateran Council considered the problem of
    reforming the ecclesiastical calendar. The issue remained undecided then only
    because the lengths of the year and month and the motions of the sun and moon
    were regarded as not yet adequately measured. From that time on, at the
    suggestion of that most distinguished man, Paul, bishop of Fossombrone, who was
    then in charge of this matter, I have directed my attention to a more precise study
    of these topics. But what I have accomplished in this regard, I leave to the judgement of Your Holiness in particular and of all other learned astronomers.
    And lest I appear to Your Holiness to promise more about the usefulness of this
    volume than I can fulfill, I now turn to the work itself.


    http://www.geo.utexas.edu/courses/302d/Fall_2011/Full%20text%20-%20Nicholas%20Copernicus,%20_De%20Revolutionibus%20(On%20the%20Revolutions),_%201.pdf

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #54 - August 20, 2015, 08:10 AM


    Ha ! i didn't even read this folder...

    Quod ...Quod   all that is there in the above post ., is that from that pdf file or there are any more links??  if you have, give me the links ((apart from this one))on that Copernicus apart from that pdf file..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Galileo Affair
     Reply #55 - August 20, 2015, 08:13 AM

    All from the same link.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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