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 Topic: Rape and adultary laws in islam

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  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     OP - October 16, 2013, 04:24 PM

    Can someone clarify what the traditional rulings under sharia are for these issues, I keep find different responses from different sources. What is required to convict someone of adultery and rape, is it different for men and women, what happens if the allegation is false? etc.

    Thank you.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #1 - October 16, 2013, 04:48 PM

    Can someone clarify what the traditional rulings under sharia are for these issues, I keep find different responses from different sources. What is required to convict someone of adultery and rape, is it different for men and women, what happens if the allegation is false? etc.

    Thank you.

    absolutely .. without doubt and that is right from Quran..

    Quote
    002.221 :  And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.

    002.222 : And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

    002.223: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

    002.224 : And make not Allah because of your swearing (by Him) an obstacle to your doing good and guarding (against evil) and making peace between men, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

    002.225 : Allah does not call you to account for what is vain in your oaths, but He will call you to account for what your hearts have earned, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

    002.226 : Those who swear that they will not go in to their wives should wait four months; so if they go back, then Allah is surely Forgiving, Merciful.

    002.227 : And if they have resolved on a divorce, then Allah is surely Hearing, Knowing.

    002.228 : And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    002.229 : Divorce may be (pronounced) twice, then keep (them) in good fellowship or let (them) go with kindness; and it is not lawful for you to take any part of what you have given them, unless both fear that they cannot keep within the limits of Allah; then if you fear that they cannot keep within the limits of Allah, there is no blame on them for what she gives up to become free thereby. These are the limits of Allah, so do not exceed them and whoever exceeds the limits of Allah these it is that are the unjust.

    002.230 : So if he divorces her she shall not be lawful to him afterwards until she marries another husband; then if he divorces her there is no blame on them both if they return to each other (by marriage), if they think that they can keep within the limits of Allah, and these are the limits of Allah which He makes clear for a people who know.

    002.231 : And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury, so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah's communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you, and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby; and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things.

    002.232 : And when you have divorced women and they have ended-- their term (of waiting), then do not prevent them from marrying their husbands when they agree among themselves in a lawful manner; with this is admonished he among you who believes in Allah and the last day, this is more profitable and purer for you; and Allah knows while you do not know.

    002.233: And the mothers should suckle their children for two whole years for him who desires to make complete the time of suckling; and their maintenance and their clothing must be-- borne by the father according to usage; no soul shall have imposed upon it a duty but to the extent of its capacity; neither shall a mother be made to suffer harm on account of her child, nor a father on account of his child, and a similar duty (devolves) on the (father's) heir, but if both desire weaning by mutual consent and counsel, there is no blame on them, and if you wish to engage a wet-nurse for your children, there is no blame on you so long as you pay what you promised for according to usage; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah and know that Allah sees what you do.

    002.234: And (as for) those of you who die and leave wives behind, they should keep themselves in waiting for four months and ten days; then when they have fully attained their term, there is no blame on you for what they do for themselves in a lawful manner; and Allah is aware of what you do.

    002.235: And there is no blame on you respecting that which you speak indirectly in the asking of (such) women in marriage or keep (the proposal) concealed within your minds; Allah knows that you win mention them, but do not give them a promise in secret unless you speak in a lawful manner, and do not confirm the marriage tie until the writing is fulfilled, and know that Allah knows what is in your minds, therefore beware of Him, and know that Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

    002.236: There is no blame on you if you divorce women when you have not touched them or appointed for them a portion, and make provision for them, the wealthy according to his means and the straitened in circumstances according to his means, a provision according to usage; (this is) a duty on the doers of good (to others).

    002.237: And if you divorce them before you have touched them and you have appointed for them a portion, then (pay to them) ha!f of what you have appointed, unless they relinquish or he should relinquish in whose hand is the marriage tie; and it is nearer to righteousness that you should relinquish; and do not neglect the giving of free gifts between you; surely Allah sees what you do.


    and there are more  and start with this

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #2 - October 17, 2013, 03:35 AM

    Can someone clarify what the traditional rulings under sharia are for these issues, I keep find different responses from different sources. What is required to convict someone of adultery and rape, is it different for men and women, what happens if the allegation is false? etc.

    Thank you.


    Basically in practice, if a woman accuses a man of rape, there needs to be four witnesses to the rape. Those witnesses have to be men, because they are supposed to be credible witnesses. Those witnesses also have to be practicing and observant Muslims, or their testimony is suspect. So:
    Four Perfect Men Stand By and Watch . Let's rephrase this
    FOUR PERFECT MUSLIM MEN STAND BY TO WATCH WHILE A RAPE OCCURS
    Or you can kiss your Shariah case goodbye imho.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #3 - October 17, 2013, 03:57 AM

    Also no marital rape in islam. Property can't refuse. Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #4 - October 17, 2013, 03:58 AM

    Though to be fair that's also true for judaism, christianity, and probably the rest as well.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #5 - October 17, 2013, 07:27 AM

    Though to be fair that's also true for judaism, christianity, and probably the rest as well.


    Women were equally as guilty for being raped in the case of the woman being married. Married women, or engaged, that were raped were executed for committing adultery. Unmarried, or engaged, women were given the choice of marrying their attackers. Their fathers were paid a sum of silver as a fine. However since virginity was a virtue often this was the only choice for a woman as her future would be compromised. Her future relied on the support, and protection, of her husband. Many men would not marry a blooded woman unless she was a widow of a brother, legally divorced, widow without children or legal virgin. A woman with a child from a case of rape was looked down upon. It was taboo to marry blooded women especially if there is a child. So this one incident forced women to make a choice between a future with their attackers or one of uncertainty as a child could be a product of such a crime as well as having a lower "value" in the view of society.


    The victim and/or the attack could go to an enclave city which functioned as neutral ground. The victim would petition the court for a ruling. The woman's family must prove the case for rape by proving she was a true virgin or legal virgin, legal being accidental lose of virginity due to injury, ruled by a previous court. If proof was not provided the men usually won.

     
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #6 - October 17, 2013, 07:53 AM

    How could they prove it aside from testimony?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #7 - October 17, 2013, 08:28 AM

    How could they prove it aside from testimony?


    Doctors would probe for an unbroken hymen. If she did not bleed she was not a virgin, unless she was ruled as a legal virgin by a court due to an accident. Also the courts could delay a trial until the early stages of gestation signs were obvious.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #8 - October 17, 2013, 08:34 AM

    Keep in mind the justice system didnt hold to the same "standards" as we do now. All one had to do was convince the judge(s) at times. Judges would follow their understanding of the law mixed with their temperament. So a roll of the dice at times.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #9 - October 17, 2013, 10:20 AM

    The reason I ask is because from what I have picked up it seems ridiculous, if a woman gets raped and cant prove that it was rape with enough witnesses then she is charged with adultery? What kind of system is this?
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #10 - October 18, 2013, 01:42 AM

    That is the Islamic system. That is how it is. Baksheesh helps.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #11 - October 18, 2013, 03:51 PM

    Really? What kind of shitty system is that? How could anyone believe it was devised by an supreme intelligent being?
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #12 - October 18, 2013, 04:15 PM

    Easy, they made it a religion.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #13 - October 18, 2013, 04:45 PM

    The reason I ask is because from what I have picked up it seems ridiculous, if a woman gets raped and cant prove that it was rape with enough witnesses then she is charged with adultery? What kind of system is this?


    I don't think that's true.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #14 - October 18, 2013, 08:08 PM

    Unfortunately, that is how it is actually applied in many Islamic countries.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #15 - October 18, 2013, 08:18 PM

    I don't think that's true.


    Quote


    those are well known cases., If it has happened / or is  happening in 21st century means ...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #16 - October 19, 2013, 12:14 AM

    I don't think that's true.


    I am sure we all wish it weren't true. But it is. Welcome to Shariah. Sorry if you are female. Out of luck.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #17 - October 19, 2013, 12:39 AM

    well if it is not true hopefully someone more knowledgeable will shed some light on the topic.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #18 - October 19, 2013, 12:42 AM

    well if it is not true hopefully someone more knowledgeable will shed some light on the topic.


    I don't think you will find more knowledgeable than this crowd. You have good references and you have the ever-present God of all Gods, the Ultimate Truth, the News Media.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #19 - October 19, 2013, 04:25 AM

    That is the Islamic system. That is how it is. Baksheesh helps.


    No it's not. You're wrong. I don't know where you're getting it from. I agree that this sort of rule is mistakenly applied in Islamic countries, but don't claim that it is in the Shariah when it is not.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #20 - October 19, 2013, 04:26 AM

    well if it is not true hopefully someone more knowledgeable will shed some light on the topic.


    If a woman accuses a person of rape, and she is not able to provide four witnesses, she is not punished for adultery.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #21 - October 19, 2013, 06:33 AM

    http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/732

    http://www.islamicvoice.com/april.99/dialogue.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C_GIhp3-wk&t=20

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #22 - October 19, 2013, 07:23 AM

    No it's not. You're wrong. I don't know where you're getting it from. I agree that this sort of rule is mistakenly applied in Islamic countries, but don't claim that it is in the Shariah when it is not.

    If a woman accuses a person of rape, and she is not able to provide four witnesses, she is not punished for adultery.

    The wording could be a bit clearer there. Better to say that, according to your understanding of sharia, she should not be punished. That's not the same as "she is not punished".

    It's easy to see how the system (in real life) ended up punishing rape victims though. Once you have a system that outlaws sex outside marriage, and requires four male witnesses to prove rape, it should be pretty obvious that at least some rape victims are going to get the rough end of the pineapple. The whole idea of requiring four male witnesses is just mental anyway, so regardless of what sharia says should actually happen if those witnesses can't be found (and for the moment I'll take your word for that) sharia still sux donkey ballz.

    Also, despite your opinion of the contents of sharia, it's still obvious that countries that claim to be following it, and have plenty of scholars available to give rulings when required, are still punishing rape victims if the four witnesses can't be found. Where are they getting this from, if not from sharia?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #23 - October 19, 2013, 10:22 AM

    If a woman accuses a person of rape, and she is not able to provide four witnesses, she is not punished for adultery.


    What if four men catch a woman and man having sex when they are not married and then she starts shouting rape? How can you know if it was consensual and she just shouted rape because they had been caught or it was genuine rape.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #24 - October 19, 2013, 07:32 PM

    The wording could be a bit clearer there. Better to say that, according to your understanding of sharia, she should not be punished. That's not the same as "she is not punished".

    It's easy to see how the system (in real life) ended up punishing rape victims though. Once you have a system that outlaws sex outside marriage, and requires four male witnesses to prove rape, it should be pretty obvious that at least some rape victims are going to get the rough end of the pineapple. The whole idea of requiring four male witnesses is just mental anyway, so regardless of what sharia says should actually happen if those witnesses can't be found (and for the moment I'll take your word for that) sharia still sux donkey ballz.

    Also, despite your opinion of the contents of sharia, it's still obvious that countries that claim to be following it, and have plenty of scholars available to give rulings when required, are still punishing rape victims if the four witnesses can't be found. Where are they getting this from, if not from sharia?


    You're right. My wording could have been clearer. But the Sharia is actually clear-cut in its rulings regarding rape.
     
    Well, scholars are human beings. They err all the time.
  • Rape and adultary laws in islam
     Reply #25 - October 19, 2013, 07:34 PM

    What if four men catch a woman and man having sex when they are not married and then she starts shouting rape? How can you know if it was consensual and she just shouted rape because they had been caught or it was genuine rape.


    This may sound strange, but the four witnesses would probably judge whether or not she was in actual pain or something. Other than that, I don't know  Cheesy It's not like I think having four witnesses is a reasonable thing to do. I was just trying to clarify.
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