Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.

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- osmanthus
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #30 - October 19, 2013, 07:56 PM

Quote from: three on October 19, 2013, 06:08 PM
(now I am rolling on the floor, laughing so hard at this irony that I vomit my lunch right through my nose)

Thanks for the visual to go with my morning coffee. Did you just snort it back up again?

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #31 - October 19, 2013, 08:26 PM

I let the cat eat it.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #32 - October 21, 2013, 10:31 AM

Hi Tomas,

I think the biggest part lays with your wife and yourself.

You need to make your opinion clear and let her know that you are a non believer now, and that you were from the start with the sham conversion.

From another post you made, you say that she knew the conversion was a sham, and accepted that at the time.

No dissrepect to either your wife or yourself, but i think she is being unfair now expecting you to comply with islam.
You already made a sacrifice for the sake of your relationship, for her and her family.
She should respect that you were considerate enough, and tolerant enough to make that sacrifice.

I think its only fair that you should be able to live your life as the person you are, with the beliefs you have, without fear of your wife or her family kicking up a stink.
Your wife's family don't need to know what your true beliefs are, or how you are raising your children. They live on the other side of the world, and if they can't accept the truth, don't tell them.
If your wife was happy enough to deceive them with a sham conversion for the sake of you both being together, surely she can be selective on what information she choses to disclose in your relationship.

Both you and your wife should be able to share your individual personal beliefs with your kids freely.

Let the kid have a window into the real world.
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #33 - October 21, 2013, 11:15 AM

Fair comments.
Looking back, I suspect maybe whilst my wife recognized it was a sham conversion, she may have secretly held hope that I would come round to the truth of Islam. If this is so, yes it is unfair on her part. However if we can't reconcile our differences than separation as far as I see can be the only option. She told me last year if I openly went mutard it would nullify our wedding.
This then leads to a whole custody nightmare, she would definitely not wish to stay in the West one day longer and as the mother she would expect and be expected by her family to bring our children back to the sanctity of a truly Islamic environment and proper upbringing. Yes I know I have grounds to prevent this, the kids were born here and we're legally married in the eyes of the law, which gives a father more rights if I'm not mistaken. However if the truth be told I don't have the means to support the kids by myself, maybe my folks could help out but this complication would be another mine field.
When the kids are old enough to make up their own minds with what they want, a separation if that's how we feel about it then might work better but right now the kids are to young to decide and if they were taken across to the other side of the world at the age they are now, in the long run they could easily forget about their father.
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #34 - October 21, 2013, 11:53 AM

I sympathise massively with your situation, and i realise my own situation could have gone the way yours has. (by that i mean my wife becoming more religious than less).

Im sure when you married you secretly hoped your wife would become less religious over time (i know i did). But unfortunately it seems your wife had the same secret hopes for you.

Living with the threat that your children can be taken away from you is terrifying, and she's using this in a horrible way to control you.

Obviously the priority for you is your children, which means that you must do your absolute best to sort out your differences with your wife.
Otherwise you are subscribed to a life of mental abuse, or as you say until the kids are old enough to handle their parents separating.

How open is your wife to dialogue on the subject of you not being muslim? Is there room for discussion, or does she refuse to listen?

It sounds from your post like she is not happy living in the UK and would be happy to move back to her own country, is that true?

I've got no idea on the laws restricting her from moving the kids abroad in the case of separation.

Seems to me you've got 4 options in front of you.

1. Give everything you've got into making your relationship a two way thing via dialogue. if that doesn't work choose from options 2,3, 4,5.

2. Shut up and swallow it for the sake of the kids until they are old enough to understand a separation.

3. Shut up and swallow it for the rest of your life.

4. Stand up and make the move to separate. Find a way to support your kids financially and get legal advise regarding your kids being snatched.

5. Call her bluff. Exercise your right and freedom to live as you are, and educate your children as you see fit. Be blatant and open about your belief's and challenge hers.

If you stand up and show your determined not to accept your relationship in its current form, she may change her opinion.
It would be a massive embarrassment for her and her family if she returned home divorced.

I hope you get some good advise on here that helps you figure a way out of the position you are in.
Its obvious you are a good father and you don't deserve this.
- Tonyt
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #35 - October 21, 2013, 03:02 PM

Damn Doubting Thomas, that seems like a real difficult situation.

If I was in your position, preventing my kids from getting religious indoctrination would be my top priority and anything else, including reconciliation with a religious wife, would be a secondary priority.

But of course it is a delicate situation, a happy family is obviously important for the kid, and with the added threat that your wife might attempt to flee the country and take the child with her, means you need to tread very carefully.

The "some people believe" line is a good one, you can also try to bring in some of the more absurd religious claims in Islam like Muhammad riding on a flying donkey to heaven and say "some people believe this...", and then follow it up with "what do you think?" or "does that sound believable to you?" Try to get him to think for himself about this stuff from an early age.

In terms of your wife trying to kidnap the child and flee to another country, she can only do that if your child already has a passport, she can only get a passport for him with both parent's consent. If he already has a passport then make sure you get hold of it and keep it somewhere she does not have access to.

Maybe a book like this would be good for your son:

In the Beginning: Creation Stories from Around the World
- The Defiant
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #36 - October 27, 2013, 11:10 PM

Thanks for the advice Dave and Tony. Dave for now I'm going with number 2 from your list with a regular pinch of doubt sead sowing. Was even at it earlier today whilst discussing leprechauns of all things I asked him if he thought they were true, he said no, then I told him I'd seen them in a book, so if it's in a book it must be true, he still disagreed.
TonyT, the "Some people believe" is a good line and it's stood me well so far, long may it continue and thanks for all the support.
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #37 - October 28, 2013, 12:16 AM

Again, I love your kid.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Awkward questions from a 5 yr old.
Reply #38 - October 28, 2013, 12:23 AM

Thanks man.
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Reply #39 - October 20, 2014, 11:14 PM

Any new developments on this?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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