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 Topic: Beating Wives

 (Read 11290 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Beating Wives
     OP - November 11, 2013, 01:21 AM
    I know you guys are well aware of ayah 4:34 and its translation (per quran.com)

    Quote
    Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.


    I was discussing this with my sister and she said that wife beating in Islam isn't permissible because of a few scholars' explanation of this ayah, that is something like, "Strike as if you are using a single blade of grass." I've seen other explanations online using the example of a light stick or toothpick, but I don't know what the justification is behind this? I'm interested in knowing why some scholars are saying that the striking mentioned isn't supposed to be harsh? Any ideas you guys may have? Any hadith to support this?
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #1 - November 11, 2013, 01:26 AM
    Such stupid ayat are a wonderful reason to leave Islam. However, if Muslims are seeking to normalize a contradictory version of Islam that marginalizes such a practice, then I wouldn't discourage them.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #2 - November 11, 2013, 01:26 AM
    If I was pissed at my partner and was hit with a blade of grass or tapped with a toothpick, if I didn't want to punch them before I would then.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #3 - November 11, 2013, 01:31 AM
    Really?

    I couldn't help but lol at whoever would attempt to censure me wielding such implements of horrendous pain.

    Edit: Allhamdolly, I have discovered the great wisdom of the Quran. It clearly preaches that laughter is the best medicine, even for marriages. Subanally.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #4 - November 11, 2013, 01:45 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 11, 2013, 01:26 AM
    If I was pissed at my partner and was hit with a blade of grass or tapped with a toothpick, if I didn't want to punch them before I would then.


    I know, right?  Cheesy

    Quote from: asbie on November 11, 2013, 01:26 AM
    Such stupid ayat are a wonderful reason to leave Islam. However, if Muslims are seeking to normalize a contradictory version of Islam that marginalizes such a practice, then I wouldn't discourage them.


    But I really am curious as to HOW these scholars came up with this explanation? I don't see any hadith except for Abu Dawud:

    Quote
    Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab: Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you.


    But Abu Dawud isn't the strongest narration, especially compared to Bukhari and Muslim. But there's also this hadith from Abu Dawud that sort of contradicts that one.

    Quote
    Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.


    Nothing makes sense. Cry
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #5 - November 11, 2013, 02:37 AM
    Western criticism? I dunno. It worked with christianity.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #6 - November 11, 2013, 03:08 AM
    Miswak can hurt just as much as a ruler, if you flick your wrist or use it as an extension of your hand. Depends on the miswak, too. A stick is a stick.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #7 - November 11, 2013, 03:10 AM
     Roll Eyes
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #8 - November 11, 2013, 03:23 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 11, 2013, 01:26 AM
    If I .... was hit with a blade of grass or tapped with a toothpick, if I didn't want to punch them before I would then.

     


    Really ?

    I would just turn around bend over put her hand on my ass and say " if your going to hit me at least do it in the right place "

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #9 - November 11, 2013, 06:22 AM
    Interesting.  So, these morons are ok with the idea of men  being in charge of women and punishing them like you would a child for behavior the men don't approve of......yet, their main point of concern is clarifying the verse on wife beating.  Of course, wife beating is ok with or without the oh-so-necessary clarification if women are seen as property. 
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #10 - November 11, 2013, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: movingfeet on November 11, 2013, 06:22 AM
    Interesting.  So, these morons are ok with the idea of men  being in charge of women and punishing them like you would a child for behavior the men don't approve of......yet, their main point of concern is clarifying the verse on wife beating.  Of course, wife beating is ok with or without the oh-so-necessary clarification if women are seen as property.


    Like my brother oh-so-brilliantly put it, "The marriage won't work if the man doesn't feel like a man." Mo's just looking out for the menz.  Afro
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #11 - November 11, 2013, 08:12 AM
    As a man I'm offended by that comment.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #12 - November 11, 2013, 08:19 AM
    You should be. All men should be. My brother also said that restaurants where men are seated in one large area and women (and family, which includes husbands/sons/brothers) are seated in a much smaller area totally makes sense and isn't sexist! Why? Because men are different from women in ways I cannot understand. I almost wanted to ask him if he was that uncomfortable around women that he can't eat with them in the room? How does he survive life, I wonder.
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #13 - November 11, 2013, 08:24 AM
    The thing about islamic views on gender vs western views on gender (as far as my own observations go) is that westerners by and large view each other as human first, male/female second. Islam is the reverse. It's male/female first, human second.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #14 - November 11, 2013, 08:40 AM
    Yes. And it's male>>>>>>>>> female in Islam. yes
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #15 - November 11, 2013, 08:44 AM
    The more I look into Islam, the more I realize that this BS about protecting women is really just about protecting men. Women can't travel alone? We don't want men to see her alone and think they can take her for their own. Can't blame him for his own actions. Women have to wear hijab? Can't have a poor man see her and get a boner in public. How dare she make him lust?


    And obviously when I say men here, I mean a very flawed view of men (or maybe just Muslim men lol Tongue), not you lovely boys.  001_wub
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #16 - November 11, 2013, 08:46 AM
    I can see where you're coming from but your comment lacks a lot of depth, islamically speaking.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #17 - November 11, 2013, 08:49 AM
    I know. I'm just annoyed right now. Also, not very good with putting my thoughts on the page.

    I'm brilliant in my head, I swear.  Wink
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #18 - November 11, 2013, 09:59 AM
    Aww bless.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #19 - November 11, 2013, 10:48 AM
    I look at clerics debating the ettiquettes of hitting your wife and think, 'fuckin hell, I can't belive I used to make excuses for this nonsense'. People need to wake up, seriously.

    I asked a religious friend of mien whether he thought it was alright to strike your wife in special circumstances. He replied that he would have to ask somebody more knowledgeable. That's an example of how religion rots the fucking brain.
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #20 - November 11, 2013, 10:51 AM
    Quote from: jvegas on November 11, 2013, 10:48 AM
    I look at clerics debating the ettiquettes of hitting your wife and think, 'fuckin hell, I can't belive I used to make excuses for this nonsense'. People need to wake up, seriously.

    I asked a religious friend of mien whether he thought it was alright to strike your wife in special circumstances. He replied that he would have to ask somebody more knowledgeable. That's an example of how religion rots the fucking brain.


    jvegas me lad, you just summed up a number of arguments of mine. Need to grab a pint with you some time, seriously.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #21 - November 11, 2013, 11:07 AM
    Quote from: jvegas on November 11, 2013, 10:48 AM
    I look at clerics debating the ettiquettes of hitting your wife and think, 'fuckin hell, I can't belive I used to make excuses for this nonsense'. People need to wake up, seriously.

    I asked a religious friend of mien whether he thought it was alright to strike your wife in special circumstances. He replied that he would have to ask somebody more knowledgeable. That's an example of how religion rots the fucking brain.


    I hate that. I always want to shake those people and ask, "if you don't understand your own religion, why are you following it?"
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #22 - November 11, 2013, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Ex Hijabi on November 11, 2013, 08:44 AM
    The more I look into Islam, the more I realize that this BS about protecting women


    I have a real problem with this ideology.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #23 - November 11, 2013, 11:17 AM
    Some people find it sweet that Islam cares enough to protect women.  Wink
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #24 - November 11, 2013, 11:26 AM
    If I ever have a daughter, soon as she's old enough I'll be enrolling her in mixed martial arts and taking her to the gym with me. Most people are decent, but it's the minority you have to watch out for. She will know not to leave her drink unattended and then chug it. If I haven't taught her how to take care of herself by the time she's at the age to make her own way in the world and forge a life for herself, I've failed her as a parent. Likewise a son. There's this myth that boys just automatically have street smarts and know how to take care of themselves in the modern world. Trust me, for both genders there's a learning curve.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #25 - November 11, 2013, 12:25 PM
    well i'll just say this wife beating is in islam. The only thing is that the either it is to an extant that makes it where it is pointless, or it is fine with it. There is nothing that says you can't hit your wife.
    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #26 - November 12, 2013, 02:46 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 11, 2013, 11:26 AM
    If I ever have a daughter, soon as she's old enough I'll be enrolling her in mixed martial arts and taking her to the gym with me. Most people are decent, but it's the minority you have to watch out for. She will know not to leave her drink unattended and then chug it. If I haven't taught her how to take care of herself by the time she's at the age to make her own way in the world and forge a life for herself, I've failed her as a parent. Likewise a son. There's this myth that boys just automatically have street smarts and know how to take care of themselves in the modern world. Trust me, for both genders there's a learning curve.


    If you start before she is old enough for that, it is better. You can start by letting her make decisions and giving her options to choose between, so she can make mistakes and experience consequences in a safe environment. Even at age one. Critical thinking will help her more than anything else.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #27 - November 12, 2013, 05:04 AM
     Afro
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #28 - November 12, 2013, 09:23 AM
    I wish my parents were like that.  Cry
    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Beating Wives
     Reply #29 - November 12, 2013, 04:04 PM
    Quote from: Ex Hijabi on November 12, 2013, 09:23 AM
    I wish my parents were like that.  Cry

     far away hug
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