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 Topic: Opinions on arranged marriages?

 (Read 7725 times)
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  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #30 - November 17, 2013, 05:03 PM

    In regards of the outdated ritual of asking the father, I don't agree with it solely resting on his word. I think its a respectful gesture, sometimes its hard for men to lose their baby girls, to know that she is going to be with someone that respects your views too is a nice gesture, rather than doing everything behind his back and he just has to accept it, sometimes it may feel nice for the father to feel like he still has a part in her life.


    I don't know if I agree with that. Even if the marriage in question wasn't arranged, it's still a sexist practice to ask the father for permission (even if his permission means nothing and it's just a gesture). There's no equivalent on the groom's side (having the wife ask the father of the groom for permission) and it leaves both mothers out of the equation. It's an outdated practice that relies on the notion that the father is somehow more responsible for his daughters than his sons (never mind the mother having nothing to do with this at all). If the father wants to feel like he's apart of her life, he can be sat down with her mother while the couple announce their engagement. If he wants to tell his future son-in-law something in private, he can. But to treat him as if he has the power (even if he doesn't) to forbid his daughter from getting married is ridiculous. Just my opinion, though.  Afro

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #31 - November 17, 2013, 05:11 PM

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I doubt that she meant it in that manner. It's asking the father, the mother or whoever the guardian maybe out of respect. No doubt parents will want to know about who you are going to marry. It also depends on you as a person. Whoever I end up marrying I will tell my mum, brothers and sisters and ask for advice. We all do that. Not all Pakistani/Muslim parents are fucked control freaks. That may be the experience of some on this forum but don't project such insecurities on everyone else and use it to inform your view on a subject that relates to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

    I don't udnerstand why people are so automatically cycnical and pessimistic when it comes to this issue. Asian mothers like to get involved, and in some cases it may be about control and others it's because they are very protective of their children. There are some parents out there who ahve the best intentions for their children and do not want their children to be hurt (at times because the parents don't want their children to go what they've been through).

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #32 - November 17, 2013, 05:33 PM

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I doubt that she meant it in that manner. It's asking the father, the mother or whoever the guardian maybe out of respect. No doubt parents will want to know about who you are going to marry. It also depends on you as a person. Whoever I end up marrying I will tell my mum, brothers and sisters and ask for advice. We all do that. Not all Pakistani/Muslim parents are fucked control freaks. That may be the experience of some on this forum but don't project such insecurities on everyone else and use it to inform your view on a subject that relates to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

    I don't udnerstand why people are so automatically cycnical and pessimistic when it comes to this issue. Asian mothers like to get involved, and in some cases it may be about control and others it's because they are very protective of their children. There are some parents out there who ahve the best intentions for their children and do not want their children to be hurt (at times because the parents don't want their children to go what they've been through).


    Sorry, I didn't mean to put Pakistani moms/families in a bad light. I'm just speaking from my own experience and what I've seen from when my friends have gotten married and they aren't Pakastani. Also, I know it's not just a Muslim practice. There are a lot of Christians who do it here, too.

    I have no problems with telling parents about it. If I was interested in marrying someone, heck yeah I would tell my parents and have that conversation with them and get their advice. I'm just against the idea of "asking for the father's permission" even if his permission doesn't carry much weight. It just seems like you're being overly cautious with his ego. Why is it respectful to ask? Why not just tell them you're interested in getting married and have that conversation? It also seems like this is something that is only practiced when it comes to women and their fathers. Again, you'll never hear about a woman asking a man's parents for permission to marry their son, but it's respectful if a man asks a woman's father for permission? That makes no sense to me.

    And I understand what you're saying, Jedi, maybe I've just been too "westernized", lol. When my parents tried setting me up to get married, they hadn't even told me. They just had the guy call me and then told me afterwards that they wanted me to get married to him. I'm an introverted person, but I'd much rather know the person I'm getting engaged/married to before we have that conversation, you know? If a family friend said, "Hey, I've got someone I would like you to meet." That's fine so long as there isn't an expectation that we're getting married. Blind dates are fine in my book. Arranged marriages aren't.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #33 - November 17, 2013, 05:46 PM

    It's all good Ex-Hijabi.

    It's just that I gues it's for security etc. that some people might like to be asked. I know some girls don't want to be messed around and like that their family know about who theya re dating because it means that their prospective partner is serious. Not everyone can Charles Xavier their partner and work ou their true intentions.

    I'm sorry about your experiences, but that seems more like a forced marriage rather than an 'arranged marriage'.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #34 - November 17, 2013, 05:48 PM

    There are a lot of Christians who do it here, too. .


    Christians do it in Yankeeland? Are they recent immigrants or whites that have been there for generations?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #35 - November 17, 2013, 05:55 PM

    They've been here for generations. They're the evangelicals.  Afro

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #36 - November 17, 2013, 06:02 PM

    Ohh, I know them. They're the batshit ones right?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #37 - November 17, 2013, 06:19 PM

    Yep! The Pride of the Tea Party. I was just reading this book review by a feminist Christian about the practice of asking for the father's permission. One of the books, by Leslie Ludy, says, "[Eric] had always thought of me as an individual, independent and making all my own decisions. Now he realized God had put a protective covering over my life—the authority of my parents."

    It actually makes me want to read the book now.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #38 - November 17, 2013, 06:23 PM

    If I ever want to give an example of evolution to someone I'll tell them to have a gander at those fundie tea party types. If you look closely and squint your eyes, you can sort of see how modern humans might have evolved from them.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #39 - November 17, 2013, 06:31 PM

     Cheesy

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #40 - November 17, 2013, 06:54 PM

    I suggest you get yourself educated.

    Anyone who present an absolutist stance liek yours on this issue clearly hasn't done their research.

    In an arranged marriage, neither participating parties have a choice in the matter at all. '
    How can you prove this statement to be true if only for a few anecdotal evidence? I can prove you wrong in an instant. I know many people, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs who ahve had arranged marriages, freely admit and will tell you were to stick it if you try and convince them that 'The families do all the deciding.'.

    There is a difference between arranged marriages and forced marriages. Even the UK Border Agency appears more educated than you on this subject: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/forced-marriage/ and here is another website http://www.shaktiedinburgh.co.uk/arrangedmarriageyp.html and another http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic_violence_topic.asp?section=0001000100220031&sectionTitle=Forced+marriage

    As I mentioned there are particular nuances that must be taken into account such as personality, community etc. Its not as clear cut as 'I think arranged marriages are bad, therefore arranged marriages are bad.'


    Clearly you haven't read what I said or bothered to understand it.  It's a matter of semantics and you wrote it off just because it's an "absolutist stance".  Like I said, arranged marriages are where the person has no choice in anything because it's all arranged for them.  If the person has a say in it, it's no longer arranged because at any given time, the person can change something about what's going on.  The right to choose is the operative difference in the terms "arranged marriage" and just simply "marriage".  Just for your reference, your brand of "arranged marriage" exists even in the West where there are dating sites and "matchmakers" whose sole purpose is finding a suitable spouse for people. We don't call those arranged marriages though. Why?  Because the person has a choice in the matter.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #41 - November 17, 2013, 07:08 PM

    It's all good Ex-Hijabi.

    It's just that I gues it's for security etc. that some people might like to be asked. I know some girls don't want to be messed around and like that their family know about who theya re dating because it means that their prospective partner is serious. Not everyone can Charles Xavier their partner and work ou their true intentions.

    I'm sorry about your experiences, but that seems more like a forced marriage rather than an 'arranged marriage'.


    If it was forced, I wouldn't have had the choice to say no. But thanks. I yelled at them for weeks after that and let them know that wasn't going to slide with me. Smiley

    And I don't know. I guess I find it troubling that women are so unsure about the guys they're dating that they want them to ask for their parents' permission. If a woman is unsure, maybe she shouldn't be dating the guy?

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #42 - November 17, 2013, 07:30 PM

    Eeehvoooo.....  Americans are bad  W.r.t marriage  ...they should go back to 1940's .........

    I yelled at them for weeks .......

    Ex Hijabi  yelling at everyone since she got the freedom., She should be sent to subcontinent with hijab., I wonder how she will act... Yell? cry? beat up people?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #43 - November 17, 2013, 07:42 PM

    Ex Hijabi  yelling at everyone since she got the freedom., She should be sent to subcontinent with hijab., I wonder how she will act... Yell? cry? beat up people?


    haha, I really am a terrible person to my parents. I just don't let them or anyone else make me do something I don't want to do. yes

    What subcontinent? India? I'm pretty sure they'd be wondering what a Somali person is doing in India.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #44 - November 17, 2013, 07:48 PM

    Would they view you as Somali or American though?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #45 - November 17, 2013, 07:52 PM

    haha, I really am a terrible person to my parents. I just don't let them or anyone else make me do something I don't want to do. yes

    What subcontinent? India? I'm pretty sure they'd be wondering what a Somali person is doing in India.

    Somalis  and people of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh  are not that different., I am pretty sure in subcontinent you will find  all sorts of facial features.. you can see this face in plenty of Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #46 - November 17, 2013, 08:29 PM

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I doubt that she meant it in that manner. It's asking the father, the mother or whoever the guardian maybe out of respect. No doubt parents will want to know about who you are going to marry. It also depends on you as a person. Whoever I end up marrying I will tell my mum, brothers and sisters and ask for advice. We all do that. Not all Pakistani/Muslim parents are fucked control freaks. That may be the experience of some on this forum but don't project such insecurities on everyone else and use it to inform your view on a subject that relates to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

    I don't udnerstand why people are so automatically cycnical and pessimistic when it comes to this issue. Asian mothers like to get involved, and in some cases it may be about control and others it's because they are very protective of their children. There are some parents out there who ahve the best intentions for their children and do not want their children to be hurt (at times because the parents don't want their children to go what they've been through).


    What jedi said. I didn't mean it to solely rest on a fathers view, I was just using that example and that what was being discussed. I personally don't have an issue with having gender roles, I'm not really a feminist in that sense, I don't think men and women have to be the same in all respects within reason, so it doesn't bother me that the equivalent wouldn't happen with a son, with a woman having to ask per say, but I would say she still needs to meet the family. I see no problem with a father being protective of his daughter, why must it equate to property? Parents wants to make sure that the man marrying his daughter isn't a knobhead the same way he wouldn't want his son to be a with a knobhead. I think its respectful to consult them or meet them, its a traditional way of thinking but parents often feel like their child is leaving them, so I don't see harm in making them feel a part of it. I personally would introduce someone to my mum first, neither would decide for me, but to make them feel like they are valued I would ask them what they think. As much as we like to think we know everything, and yes there are things we know better than our parents but they do have some wisdom.

    As much as the relationship is between the couple, your family is a big part of your life. I'm not even close to my parents, but I just have this weird empathy and respect for how they may feel.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #47 - November 17, 2013, 11:07 PM

    What jedi said. I didn't mean it to solely rest on a fathers view, I was just using that example and that what was being discussed. I personally don't have an issue with having gender roles, I'm not really a feminist in that sense, I don't think men and women have to be the same in all respects within reason, so it doesn't bother me that the equivalent wouldn't happen with a son, with a woman having to ask per say, but I would say she still needs to meet the family. I see no problem with a father being protective of his daughter, why must it equate to property? Parents wants to make sure that the man marrying his daughter isn't a knobhead the same way he wouldn't want his son to be a with a knobhead. I think its respectful to consult them or meet them, its a traditional way of thinking but parents often feel like their child is leaving them, so I don't see harm in making them feel a part of it. I personally would introduce someone to my mum first, neither would decide for me, but to make them feel like they are valued I would ask them what they think. As much as we like to think we know everything, and yes there are things we know better than our parents but they do have some wisdom.

    As much as the relationship is between the couple, your family is a big part of your life. I'm not even close to my parents, but I just have this weird empathy and respect for how they may feel.


    I have no problem with introducing the person I want to marry to my parents and have them involved in my life. So I am with you there, Jibbs.

    I guess I just don't like the idea of having a guy ask my dad for permission. My dad has no authority over me. Though I definitely appreciate his input, he cannot ban me from getting married to someone.  I would equate it to property because this is a tradition steeped in sexism. A man only asked a dad for permission because the woman couldn't get married without it. There's a difference between my dad liking and approving of someone and him actually being asked for permission.

    Am I looking at this from a  feminist perspective? Yeah, probably. I don't want men and women to be the same. Still, I don't understand why this tradition still thrives.

    If it happens because a father is overprotective over his daughter, then why doesn't he feel the same way over his son? Why doesn't he feel the same way about the woman his son marries as he does with the man his daughter marries? Why is it only the father whose permission is asked?

    I'm sorry, Jibbs, I love reading your posts,  I just don't fully agree with you on this point. I hope I don't come off as being rude. Cry

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #48 - November 17, 2013, 11:23 PM

    I'm happy to do what most people do. Fall in love, try living together, and if a few years go by and you find you're still happy together, get married if you want to.

     parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #49 - November 17, 2013, 11:32 PM

    I'm with you, Quod.  Afro

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #50 - November 17, 2013, 11:35 PM

    Us filthy westerners.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #51 - November 17, 2013, 11:39 PM

    Trying to be all equal and shit.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #52 - November 17, 2013, 11:46 PM

    We're probably just rebelling against our parents. It's the muslim version of getting a tattoo and dating a biker from the bad side of town. Course, I've never been a muslim and actually am a biker from the bad side of town.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #53 - November 18, 2013, 12:48 AM

    I asked my future father-in-law for his daughter's hand, learnt the correct Japanese phrase and managed to get it out without tripping over my tongue.

    It was purely a courtesy. Had he refused we would still have got married. He didn't of course, because he knew instinctively that it was for his daughters to choose their own mates. Both married Europeans.

    Jedi, I understand all the points you are making, but for me they still don't overcome two fundamental problems.

    1) Coerced or voluntary, arranged marriages are always within the clan/race/religion. This offends my bone marrow.

    2) Love is the best thing that can happen to a person, a messy, dangerous, sometimes short-lived transfiguring emotion. Arranged marriage, however 'successful' in practical terms, is a denial of this.
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #54 - November 19, 2013, 09:25 PM

    Each to their own ex hijabi, perhaps I have this view because I would never have to experience being forced into anything and my parents don't really choose to have involvement in my love life like that, I think I wouldn't mind.

    In my experience, before I was Muslim, I met the parents of people I dated within a couple of dates no biggie, It was only when I got involved with a Muslim did I realise some people preferred relationships and parents as separate entities.


    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #55 - November 20, 2013, 08:53 AM

    We can all agree that we feel sorry for the male being arranged to marry a female with a burqa who will reveal nothing but her beautiful lustful eyes that would arouse any mans sex drive. Then to ultimately find out after the wedding that he has married someone who resembles a sasquatch.
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