plagiarising dawah goons

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- dr_sloth
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OP - November 18, 2013, 01:04 AM

I am currently reading (laughing at) an Adam Deen essay on the linguistic miracle crap.
He seems to be copying the same mistakes that Hamza Tzortzis made, and these are mistakes that were already plagiarised from William Lane Craig in the first place.

I didnt think Adam Deen was as thick as Tzortzis. Why would he be copying him? Is it more likely that Tortoise copied Deen?
- TheDashingRabbit
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Reply #1 - November 18, 2013, 01:48 AM

^

I don't know why but I get the impression that Adam Deen is not as deceitful as Tzortzis.

Seems more likely that Tzortzis copied from Adam Deen.

Hamza's beard gives him more credibility in the muslim community than Adam Deen. Seriously when it comes to matters of religion men are not taken seriously by the community unless they have long beards.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #2 - November 18, 2013, 11:33 AM

↑ This

A woman is rarely taken seriously at all, but is often bashed and criticized if she isn't covered "properly"....

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- captndisguise
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Reply #3 - November 18, 2013, 05:01 PM

Could you link to his article?

http://www.youtube.com/captaindisguise
http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/
http://dawahganda.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/CaptainDG64

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ~ Nietzsche
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Reply #4 - November 18, 2013, 05:08 PM

Quote from: captndisguise on November 18, 2013, 05:01 PM
Could you link to his article?

Why is the Qur'an a Miracle? - The Inimitable Qur'an

Quran-The Linguistic Miracle

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #5 - November 18, 2013, 05:15 PM

Which one is by Adam Deen?

http://www.youtube.com/captaindisguise
http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/
http://dawahganda.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/CaptainDG64

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ~ Nietzsche
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Reply #6 - November 18, 2013, 05:28 PM

Found this one - http://www.adamdeen.com/articles/philosophy-a-theology/159-a-new-philosophical-perspective-on-the-inimitable-challenge-of-the-quran-miracle-of-the-quran

3 of the references are ones I know to be quotemined. I think I am going to write a rebuttal to this.

http://www.youtube.com/captaindisguise
http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/
http://dawahganda.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/CaptainDG64

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ~ Nietzsche
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Reply #7 - November 18, 2013, 05:33 PM

@Captain Disguise : Rebuttal to the miracle or a criticism of quotemining?

Anyways, I find this very funny and interesting at the same time. So the Meccans often "boasted" that they could produce something like the Qur'aan if they willed, but that the Qur'aan was just recycled legends of people from the past. This is what I found from the Tafsir Ibn Kathir :

("We have heard (the Qur'an); if we wish we can say the like of this.'')

They boasted with their words, but not with their actions. They were challenged several times to bring even one chapter like the Qur'an, and they had no way to meet this challenge. They only boasted in order to deceive themselves and those who followed their falsehood. It was said that An-Nadr bin Al-Harith, may Allah curse him, was the one who said this, according to Sa`id bin Jubayr, As-Suddi, Ibn Jurayj and others. An-Nadr visited Persia and learned the stories of some Persian kings, such as Rustum and Isphandiyar. When he went back to Makkah, He found that the Prophet was sent from Allah and reciting the Qur'an to the people. Whenever the Prophet would leave an audience in which An-Nadr was sitting, An-Nadr began narrating to them the stories that he learned in Persia, proclaiming afterwards, "Who, by Allah, has better tales to narrate, I or Muhammad'' When Allah allowed the Muslims to capture An-Nadr in Badr, the Messenger of Allah commanded that his head be cut off before him, and that was done, all thanks are due to Allah.
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Reply #8 - November 18, 2013, 05:38 PM

it was actually this i was looking at.

http://www.theinimitablequran.com/intromiracles.pdf

it says the author is adam deen, but was 'edited' by hamza tzortzis, so that could explain it.

Tortoise essays and this adam deen essay both use the same quotation from Bilinksyj, and both provide the same reference.

Quote
As Bilynskyj observes “so long as natural laws are conceived of as universal inductive generalisations the notion of violation of a nature law is incoherent”.
...
Stephen S. Bilynskyj, 'God, Nature, and the Concept of Miracle' (Ph.D. Diss.: Notre Dame, 1982) 10-42

The problem is that that this isn't a Bilinskyj quotation. It is actually a paraphrasing of Bilinskyj, pasted from a William Lane Craig essay (hence the 42 page reference which he/they also pasted).

Don't worry though. I am on the case:
http://www.valleycovenant.org/pastorblog/?page_id=2#comment-16618
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Reply #9 - November 18, 2013, 08:53 PM

Quote from: kutta on November 18, 2013, 05:33 PM
@Captain Disguise : Rebuttal to the miracle or a criticism of quotemining?

Rebuttal to the miracle argument (while also demonstrating the quoteminings)!

http://www.youtube.com/captaindisguise
http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/
http://dawahganda.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/CaptainDG64

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ~ Nietzsche
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Reply #10 - November 16, 2014, 07:28 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on November 18, 2013, 01:04 AM
I am currently reading (laughing at) an Adam Deen essay on the linguistic miracle crap.
He seems to be copying the same mistakes that Hamza Tzortzis made, and these are mistakes that were already plagiarised from William Lane Craig in the first place.

I didnt think Adam Deen was as thick as Tzortzis. Why would he be copying him? Is it more likely that Tortoise copied Deen?

Adam Deen took hamza under his wing as his apprentice and taught him all the philosophical arguments for theism which he had stolen from watching WLC. Hence why Deen & Tzortzis both copy WLC's bullshit.

Hamza managed to get a full time job as a dawahganist for IERA, whilst Deen is still doing a 9-5 day job. Hamza eventually superseding and surpassed his mentor Deen as the leading and most popular(amongst most muslims)proselytiser is the reason behind Deens ill feeling towards Hamza and particularly IERA who didn't give him a job but gave one to pupil Hamza, which was a big FUCK YOU to Deen, especially as Hamza was trained and taught under Deen for years.

Recently Deen and Tzortis have had a huge row and fall out over the issue of aishas age at time she married and consummated her marriage to Mo. With Hamza considering her to be 6 and marriage and 9 at consummation(which he has painstakingly tried to rationalise) and Deen considering her to be much older.
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Reply #11 - November 17, 2014, 09:07 AM

Where did deen and tzortzis have this argument serpent? How do you know it happened?

Found this interesting video online with Deen and other 'dawah goons'.

Look at how difficult they are finding it to square their beliefs with reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsYk-tRp9jk
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Reply #12 - November 17, 2014, 05:05 PM

People I know who know both of them, there beef isn't in the public eye.

Deen obviously leaned to the stance on Aishas age that his wife Myriam francois took, where as hamza passionately defends mo's paedophilia.

Alot of the beef between Deen Institute and IERA and Abdullah Andalusi(who has the same biews more or less as Iera) has played out in public on facebook/twitter. They disagree on things like evolution and the segregation debate.
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Reply #13 - November 17, 2014, 06:32 PM

In that video you can see Deen is looking for a way to 're-evaluate' ayisha's age.

Myriam francois does not agree that she was 9 years old when the marriage was consummated? Where did you read that? I read an article written by her on the topic that seems to suggest otherwise. I didn't know they were married either.
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