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 Topic: Britain's first white honour killing

 (Read 11967 times)
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  • Britain's first white honour killing
     OP - November 21, 2013, 03:04 PM

    Quote
    Laura Wilson was just 17-years-old when she was stabbed to death next to a canal in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, in 2010.
    This wasn't a mugging gone wrong, or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, the mother-of-one was the victim of Britain's first white honour killing. Her death was premeditated murder, plotted and committed by the boyfriend she was madly in love with.
    Laura's crime was to bring dishonour on her Muslim lover Ashtiaq Ashgar, 21, who is now serving a life sentence for the brutal murder.

    In 2008, the couple began an intense relationship at school when Laura was just 15, and Ashtiaq, 16.
    Her sister, Sarah, reveals on tonight's episode of Britain's Darkest Taboos on Crime & Investigation Network: 'She loved him. She worshipped the ground he walked on, she really did. She would have done anything for him.'
    Ashtiaq came from a traditional Muslim family who were planning an arranged marriage for their son with a girl from Pakistan.
    They would have been horrified to learn he was dating a white girl so he made Laura keep their relationship a secret.
    Unbeknown to his family, he lived a double life where he drank, smoked cannabis, carried weapons and had numerous relationship with women, including Laura.
    When Laura found out that he has been seeing other girls, they broke up and she slept with this married friend, 22-year-old Ishaq 'Zac' Hussein, to make him jealous.
    Only 16, she fell pregnant as a result of the fling and had a daughter, Alicia. Zac refused to acknowledge he was the father.
    After Alicia is born, Laura and Ashtiaq rekindled their relationship but he insisted it must continue to be a secret. But while Laura was very much in love, her mother, Maggie, believes Ashtiaq was just using Laura for sex and treated her badly.
    She said: 'I heard a phone conversation between Laura and Ashtiaq, Laura telling him how much he loved him and he was just so nasty. You could hear Laura crying in the background. He was saying just how much he hated her and that he'd got another girl, and he wasn't interested in her and she's shouting back "I love ya, I love ya…". He used Laura I think at the end.'

    Laura soon became sick of being Ashtiaq secret and on October 6, 2010, fuelled by alcohol, she and her sister made the fatal mistake of revealing all to his family.
    They knocked on his mother's door and told her what was going on.
    Sarah recalls: 'Laura told her that she wanted to marry him, but his mother got aggressive and hit her with a shoe, calling her "a dirty white b****".'
    The whole time Ashtiaq stood behind his mother 'acting sheepish'.

    The public episode would have been deeply shameful and embarrassing to him.
    On a roll, Laura and Sarah also visited Zac's family to reveal how he is the father of her baby.
    Maggie recalls: 'She said "I am sick of her being a secret" as she had been told not to mention about Alicia to any of the family. So she told them but they just didn’t want to know.'
    Maggie added that Laura's relations with Ashtiaq and Zac had 'fetched shame on their family… she had to be stopped.'
    In the days following Sarah and Laura turning up at their houses, an angry Ashtiaq sent Zac a text message saying: 'I'm gonna send that b***** to Hell.'
    He also said he wanted to make 'beans on toast' of her, which is a phrase that means to spill blood.
    He asked Laura to meet him at the canal one evening and it's there that he murdered her.


    When Laura did not return home that evening, Maggie said she 'just knew' something terrible had happened.
    Meanwhile, Ashtiaq was trying to cover his tracks by texting Laura's friend asking if she had 'seen' her.
    Two days later, Laura's body was found in the canal. She had more than 40 stab wounds, most of those to the head, and some were defence wounds.
    Maggie had to go identify her daughter. She said: 'I went over and kissed her and I put my arms around her and I just sobbed.'


    Sarah was overwhelmed with guilt. She said: 'If it was going to be anyone it should have been me. It was my choice to go and knock on Ashtiaq's door, it was my choice to go and knock on Zac's door. She had everything to live for.'
    Police charged Ashtiaq and Zac with murder - describing the case as Britain's first white honour based killing.
    Both men pleaded not guilty.
    On May 2011 at Ashtiaq's trial, the court heard how after stabbing Laura, he threw her into the canal but she kept fighting for her life. A pathologist report found that the stab wounds to the head were actually done to keep her under the water.
    On June 1 Ashtiaq changed his plea to guilty in the hope of a reduced sentence, as the evidence was stacking up against him.
    On December 21 the judge sentenced 18-year-old Ashtiaq to 17-and-a-half years imprisonment for Laura's murder.
    'He showed no remorse, just upset at the amount of time he got in jail,' says Maggie.
    Meanwhile, following a retrial Zac was acquitted of murder.
    Ashtiaq is currently serving a life sentence and will be eligible for parole in 2029 when he's 34-years-old.
    Sarah said she believed his punishment was not enough, adding: 'He's going to be out in 2029… he can still get out and get married and have kids and have a good life. My sister can't.'
    Maggie and Sarah are now raising Laura's daughter, Alicia, and this keeps them going.
    Maggie said: 'I need to keep strong for Alicia. I have got to make sure she has a good upbringing, good schooling. Keep her safe.'   


    link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2510542/Britains-white-honour-killing-Teenager-brutally-murdered-Muslim-lover-exposing-relationship-family.html


    What a prick -.-"
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #1 - November 21, 2013, 03:22 PM

    OP heading says Britain's first white honour killing

     I don't know what that means INcePtion..but I guess you just copied that heading from some news PRICK.,  Honor, Shame, happiness, sadness have no color .. they are same for white/blacks/blue/brown/reds

    Honor killing is honor killing .. incidentally it is wrong heading., Honor killing is usually done by relatives of the girl such as father, brother uncle.. etc...etc..   they kill the girl with the stupid mind set that they loose their family honor because what the girl did/didn't do....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #2 - November 21, 2013, 03:29 PM

    I know, I really don't understand why it is called honour killing
    This is a murder and that's it. 
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #3 - November 21, 2013, 03:37 PM

    I know, ..............  


    Huh! you are writing like that rascal yeezevee..  knowing well you hide things., Then why don't say in the post .
    Quote
    ," that murder is nothing to do with honour killing and nothing to do white/black/blues... these idiots in the western news papers write such nonsense when it comes to this type inter-religious love affairs/murders whatever...."  

    you got to learn to SHOUT AT RASCALS INcePtion

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #4 - November 21, 2013, 04:06 PM

    you got to learn to SHOUT AT RASCALS INcePtion

    I will learn many things from that rascal yeezevee
     Cheesy
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #5 - November 21, 2013, 04:29 PM

    I know, I really don't understand why it is called honour killing
    This is a murder and that's it. 



    Exactly. Not anything like the idea of honour I was raised to have.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #6 - November 21, 2013, 09:36 PM

    Quote
    He was saying just how much he hated her and that he'd got another girl, and he wasn't interested in her and she's shouting back "I love ya, I love ya…"


    What was wrong with her?  Not victim blaming or anything, he should spend the rest of his life behind bars but why on earth would anyone be saying "I love ya" to someone who is saying he hates you, he's not interested and he's got someone else? 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #7 - November 21, 2013, 10:10 PM

    Such a reaction is common if not expected for an abuse victim, surely? Especially so young. There may not have been physical abuse, until he murdered her anyway, but it seems likely he was emotionally abusive.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #8 - November 21, 2013, 10:18 PM

    I'm sure he was.  He sounds like the worst kind of dickhead.  But it also sounds like the kind of situation where someone should have intervened much sooner to break the hold he had over her. 

    Sad story all round. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #9 - November 21, 2013, 10:44 PM

    What was wrong with her?  Not victim blaming or anything, he should spend the rest of his life behind bars but why on earth would anyone be saying "I love ya" to someone who is saying he hates you, he's not interested and he's got someone else? 

    Abusers generally pick those already of low self-esteem and then proceed to plough out any self-esteem they have left. The abused becomes isolated and trapped, their whole world beginning and ending with the abuser, and the abuser becomes the only handhold to hold onto. It's not really love. It's a much darker reliance.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #10 - November 21, 2013, 11:44 PM

    I agree that she had low self esteem, but he wasn't trying to hold onto her.  He was trying to get rid of her long before he killed her.  Its a shame nobody in her life could step in and do something constructive for her, instead of stepping in to encourage her to go to his house and have a big, screaming row with his family.  What kind of help was that?

    None of which excuses him in anyway, of course.  Nor his sleazy friend who was lucky enough to be acquitted.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #11 - November 21, 2013, 11:56 PM

    I mean from the perspective of the abused, the abuser becomes a handhold for them.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #12 - November 22, 2013, 12:22 AM

    Keep in mind her age. She was 15 when all this started, we can't expect her to act like an adult of 30.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #13 - November 22, 2013, 01:01 AM

    No, but he was 16, so we can't expect him to act like an adult at that stage either. 

    But they weren't at that stage when he murdered her, so again, that's no excuse for him. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #14 - November 22, 2013, 02:25 AM

    I know, I really don't understand why it is called honour killing
    This is a murder and that's it. 



    This is an important distinction. Honour killings are just that. Motivated by honour. They are not crimes of passion, they are premeditated murders motivated by honour. If you do not address them as such, you cannot educate about them, you cannot break the tradition. I oughta know.
    A huge distinction between murder of a lover (crime of passion) and an honour killing, is that honour killings often involve more than one perpetrator. The entire family is vested in restoring a family's honor.
    Please, DO differentiate between murder and honour killings.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #15 - November 22, 2013, 04:08 AM

    Why? I disagree. It's just murder. Premeditated murder, and conspiracy to murder, are still murder. The motive is irrelevant. Calling it murder brings it down to what it really is. It doesn't deserve a seperate "non-murder" category to hide in.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #16 - November 22, 2013, 04:50 AM

    No, it should not be hidden as not murder. But it should be recognized for what it is.
    Honour killings occur in cultures where codes of morality and behaviour reinforce the trend. There is a pressure in these cultures to commit an honor killing.
    Brothers and fathers are often the perpetrators. This is not the typical norm in cultures where the concept of honour is absent or varied from what I am referencing.
    The average ages for honor killings are late teens and thirty-six. Other murder categories sharing motivation do not show an average age.
    Half of these victims are tortured first. This is not typical of other partner murders, or other family murders.
    A rose is a rose. Let's point at it, so people understand what it is. Let's dialogue on this, and maybe we can save someone.
    I want to stress, here, that honour killings are not confined to one particular religious belief. This is a cultural phenomenon.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #17 - November 22, 2013, 05:17 AM

    Quote
    No, it should not be hidden as not murder. But it should be recognized for what it is.
    Honour killings occur in cultures where codes of morality and behaviour reinforce the trend. There is a pressure in these cultures to commit an honor killing.  ............
    I want to stress, here, that honour killings are not confined to one particular religious belief. This is a cultural phenomenon.

    Honour killings are just that. Motivated by honour. They are not crimes of passion, they are premeditated murders motivated by honour.  


    hello three., glad to read your posts on  this subject .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d9l6f6dHSY

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/29/canal-murder-mother-not-prevented

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069055/Laura-Wilson-Groomed-sex-12-stabbed-death-17.html

    Looking at that case from what is there in news papers and the video  and looking at the cultures and religions around the globe., what religions and what cultures of the globe will make a 17 year old to kill his 16 year old girl friend?? And why these  17 year olds like that Ashitaq Asghar  don't get the culture they are born in to?  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTkZj4XRQKQ

    Hmmmmm  American Islam seems to be different from London Islam.  well Islam can change with time.. we need to change some rules.. that is all what is needed. It appears America changes everything .. Good for them..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #18 - November 22, 2013, 07:07 AM

    No, it should not be hidden as not murder. But it should be recognized for what it is.
    Honour killings occur in cultures where codes of morality and behaviour reinforce the trend. There is a pressure in these cultures to commit an honor killing.
    Brothers and fathers are often the perpetrators. This is not the typical norm in cultures where the concept of honour is absent or varied from what I am referencing.
    The average ages for honor killings are late teens and thirty-six. Other murder categories sharing motivation do not show an average age.
    Half of these victims are tortured first. This is not typical of other partner murders, or other family murders.
    A rose is a rose. Let's point at it, so people understand what it is. Let's dialogue on this, and maybe we can save someone.
    I want to stress, here, that honour killings are not confined to one particular religious belief. This is a cultural phenomenon.

    And all of this was already obvious.

    As a side issue, it is actually quite common for partner murders to be pretty damned brutal, which in my books is often near enough to torture even if it's not deliberately prolonged for days. So no, I don't think "honour killings" are necessarily special in that regard.

    My 2c is that the very term "honour killing" is intrinsically disgusting as it has the veiled implication that there is somehow something honourable in the actions of the murderer(s). That is partly why I think it should simply be called what it is: murder. Dissociating it from "honour" is a good thing IMO, because it sends the message that nobody gives a rat's arse about your stupid honour, you just don't get to go around murdering people because of it, so STFU and deal.

    Sure, shine a light on the cultural shiz as well as part of trying to change attitudes, but don't allow anyone to associate a "sense of honour" with such actions. Just call it murder. Or power. Or control. Or fucking mindless shit for brains barbarism. Whatever.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #19 - November 22, 2013, 02:47 PM

    And all of this was already obvious.

    As a side issue, it is actually quite common for partner murders to be pretty damned brutal, which in my books is often near enough to torture even if it's not deliberately prolonged for days. So no, I don't think "honour killings" are necessarily special in that regard.

    My 2c is that the very term "honour killing" is intrinsically disgusting as it has the veiled implication that there is somehow something honourable in the actions of the murderer(s). That is partly why I think it should simply be called what it is: murder. Dissociating it from "honour" is a good thing IMO, because it sends the message that nobody gives a rat's arse about your stupid honour, you just don't get to go around murdering people because of it, so STFU and deal.

    Sure, shine a light on the cultural shiz as well as part of trying to change attitudes, but don't allow anyone to associate a "sense of honour" with such actions. Just call it murder. Or power. Or control. Or fucking mindless shit for brains barbarism. Whatever.


    This
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #20 - November 22, 2013, 11:18 PM


    hello three., glad to read your posts on  this subject .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d9l6f6dHSY

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/29/canal-murder-mother-not-prevented

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069055/Laura-Wilson-Groomed-sex-12-stabbed-death-17.html

    Looking at that case from what is there in news papers and the video  and looking at the cultures and religions around the globe., what religions and what cultures of the globe will make a 17 year old to kill his 16 year old girl friend?? And why these  17 year olds like that Ashitaq Asghar  don't get the culture they are born in to?  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTkZj4XRQKQ

    Hmmmmm  American Islam seems to be different from London Islam.  well Islam can change with time.. we need to change some rules.. that is all what is needed. It appears America changes everything .. Good for them..


    This is not true, that America changes everything. I do not understand why you put up a vid on marriage in response to a post on honor killings.
    America does not categorize honor killings on the ground. The FBI will, but the state and county law enforcement agencies do not. Also they do not track them. So there are no statistics on them here. On the surface, that would seem to mean that there are none. If you have no numbers, you have nothing, right? If we were to categorize them, we could track them, we could educate.
    So far, nothing. We prattle about it to other countries, and ignore it within our own borders.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #21 - November 22, 2013, 11:23 PM

    And all of this was already obvious.

    As a side issue, it is actually quite common for partner murders to be pretty damned brutal, which in my books is often near enough to torture even if it's not deliberately prolonged for days. So no, I don't think "honour killings" are necessarily special in that regard.

    My 2c is that the very term "honour killing" is intrinsically disgusting as it has the veiled implication that there is somehow something honourable in the actions of the murderer(s). That is partly why I think it should simply be called what it is: murder. Dissociating it from "honour" is a good thing IMO, because it sends the message that nobody gives a rat's arse about your stupid honour, you just don't get to go around murdering people because of it, so STFU and deal.

    Sure, shine a light on the cultural shiz as well as part of trying to change attitudes, but don't allow anyone to associate a "sense of honour" with such actions. Just call it murder. Or power. Or control. Or fucking mindless shit for brains barbarism. Whatever.


    If you just ignore the term and the cultural practice, it will not go away. We are doing this in the United States already, and it is not working at all.
    Honour is very alive here, no one is addressing the issue, and we do not recognize it as any special category of murder.
    Now it is worse.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #22 - November 22, 2013, 11:37 PM

    How about we call it reputation murder? That's what it is. Yes I agree with you that it needs to be identified specifically for the type of crime it is, but calling it "honour" is pathetic. It has fuck all to do with honour, it's just reputation/what other people think.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #23 - November 22, 2013, 11:50 PM

    You are right. Translation is a major issue. Reputation is better. Face is good, too. Shame might work, with an addition.
    Each culture has a slightly different interpretation and execution, too, which only confuses it further.
    Girls here call 911 and claim their parents are going to kill them because their socks fell down and they flashed an ankle, and the operators laugh at them. If we had a category of crime, by any name, we could educated our crisis prevention staff.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #24 - November 22, 2013, 11:58 PM

    Quote
    Girls here call 911 and claim their parents are going to kill them because their socks fell down and they flashed an ankle, and the operators laugh at them


    Do you have any sources?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #25 - November 23, 2013, 12:06 AM

    How about we call it reputation murder? That's what it is. Yes I agree with you that it needs to be identified specifically for the type of crime it is, but calling it "honour" is pathetic. It has fuck all to do with honour, it's just reputation/what other people think.

    are you guys talking about this  murder by that 17 year brute born in England happened to be Muslim?? 

    or or.. are you  talking about "honor killings" that do really happen in many parts of the globe??

    Or you guys want to eliminate  that word "honor killings"??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #26 - November 23, 2013, 12:13 AM

    Do you have any sources?


    No. That was just an example.
    If I were to source I could say:
    For getting an incoming wrong number on your cell phone.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #27 - November 23, 2013, 12:14 AM

    By source I mean links to credible sites/news outlets.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #28 - November 23, 2013, 01:06 AM

    I can source to court records on that one, but not news sources.

    Here is an apostate honor killing in Florida:
    http://www.examiner.com/article/plea-to-tampa-police-dept-to-reopen-case-suspicious-death-of-fatima-abdallah

    Obtaining a protective order, shaming husband's honor, NY:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/02/17/beheading-in-new-york-appears-to-be-honor-killing-experts-say/

    Now, look at how hard it is to find the cases that are still open:
    For not accepting an arranged marriage the year before, and then driving and etc.
    http://www.cleveland.com/whateverhappened/index.ssf/2000/07/cousin_acquitted_in_killing.html

    This is a city paper.

    Father kills daughter who wants to divorce her husband, Georgia:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/09/dad-in-honor-killing-case-says-innocent/

    Think of all the attempts, escapes, etc. That (thank goodness) did not result in a murder. We cannot collect the data on it.


    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Britain's first white honour killing
     Reply #29 - November 23, 2013, 04:30 AM

    Ok, then call it "mindless fucking shit for brains barbarism". It's clear and catchy. Would send a great message.

    "Hey bro, what are you in for?"

    "Umm, mindless fucking shit for brains barbarism."

    "Retard."

    Years later, goes for job interview....

    "Do you have any criminal convictions?"

    "Umm, yeah.'

    "Oh. What for?"

    "Umm, mindless fucking shit for brains barbarism."

    "Retard."

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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