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 Topic: Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!

 (Read 27009 times)
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  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #30 - November 26, 2013, 07:55 PM

    Who said impose gender mixing? It is gender segregation that is being imposed.

    Your logic is self-defeating. Why impose racial mixing? Why impose class mixing? Why impose mixing based upon any criteria? It is when you segregate that suspicions are raised and the subtleties of prejudice come to the fore.

    Nothing is being proposed to be imposed. Mature adults being what they are sit where they consider to be appropriate and where they feel comfortable. At university lectures throughout the land in all parts of the world it works. The girl group automatically sits with the girls groups, the rockers with the rockers, the 'jocks' with the jocks in fact there are different social groups that at times gravitate towards one another for all sorts of reasons. Why a special distinction to be made based upon gender?

    I suppose this reflects just how immature and self conscious a select group of people within a particular community feels.

     

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #31 - November 26, 2013, 08:35 PM

    Where do all the transgender people go?

    Where do hemephrodites sit?

    How about children who are attending the event? What is the cut off age before gender segregation kicks in?

    Will there be a security check-in system installed in order to verify that all those wearing burkhas are in fact women?

    What is the penalty if one transgresses the invisible boundary? Will I be pepper sprayed, hosed down and be intimidated by a German Shephard getting all in my face?

    I've noticed that women in general have better toilet facilities. I want this inequality to be addressed and the situation rectified immediately.

    Will there be a seat inspector that will inspect all the seats in order to ensure that both the male and female seats are equally comfortable or uncomfortable?

    According to the legal principles if the men clap louder than the women does that violate any of the terms of agreement?

    If gender segregation is implemented to impede promiscuity, where do gay and lesbians sit who may, like their heterosexual counterparts, be turned on?

    Whan attending a gender segregated event will I have to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    That's it people. Thanks for getting me started deusvult.













    haha I quite mean it that way, more of in the sense that it's easy to exploit until the university starts mandating that speakers must be in the front in the middle. It would be a pain in the ass to enforce, but realistically they'll let the Islamic unions enforce it and back up whatever they say.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #32 - November 26, 2013, 08:47 PM

    Who said impose gender mixing? It is gender segregation that is being imposed.

    Your logic is self-defeating. Why impose racial mixing? Why impose class mixing? Why impose mixing based upon any criteria? It is when you segregate that suspicions are raised and the subtleties of prejudice come to the fore.


    suspicions and prejudice.... from not towing your gender mixing line in a one-time event... crazy.

    are you going to hold a demonstration in the ladies loos for being an affront to gender equality?
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #33 - November 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

     In public there is no need to enforce segregation. In private situations there can be. There is a meaningful difference.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #34 - November 26, 2013, 08:58 PM

    Those who can't tell the difference between a lecture hall and a toilet are the kind of people who should hold public office. Discuss.


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #35 - November 26, 2013, 09:07 PM

    jedi for president of the eu equality commission.

    you haven't convinced me with your arguments so insults won't work either.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #36 - November 26, 2013, 09:12 PM

    What do I need to convince you of exactly?

    That gender mixing is not an issue and that people are mature enough to sit where they plaase at a lecture hall without having any gender segregation imposed upon them?

    Please vote for Jedi as president of the EU equality commission and I promise you that this gender segregation will end. Aaaaaah, sounds like the good old 7th century days!

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #37 - November 27, 2013, 12:15 AM

    jedi for president of the eu equality commission.

    you haven't convinced me with your arguments so insults won't work either.


    Does it matter that there are people who will be deeply offended/uncomfortable/intimidated? What if you were told you had to sit in a certain area because of your race? Why is it different if you feel it's unfair?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #38 - November 27, 2013, 02:23 AM

    Quote
    Sexual segregation at a UCL event a scandal, say students

    University College London has launched an investigation after an Islamic group hosted a debate on its premises with seating segregated by gender.

    The following statement, reproduced in full, has been released by concerned students:

    A policy of sexual segregation was enforced at an event at University College London on Saturday, with the organisers' security trying to physically remove members of the audience who would not comply.

    Seating at the event was segregated between men and women, with a small 'mixed' space allocated for couples.

    Separate entrances were in place for women and men, although 'couples' were allowed to enter via the men's door. Male attendees were refused entry via the women's door.

    The event "Islam vs Atheism" on Saturday 9th was organised by the Islamic Education and Research Academy (IERA), and pitted writer Hamza Tzortzis against Professor Laurence Krauss in a debate.

    A policy of segregation was suggested by IERA in a statement before the event, which said: "As for seating, it is according to when the ticket was booked and gender." This was raised by students with UCL, who gave assurances that no segregation would be allowed.

    Fiona McClement, UCL equalities and diversities adviser, said on 8th March: "We have been in contact with the event organisers and made it clear that UCL will not permit enforced gender segregated seating. All attendees are free to sit wherever they feel comfortable."

    Sarah Guise, head of equalities and diversity, deans of students Mike Ewing (academic) and Ruth Siddall (welfare), as well as UCL gender champions Professor Mary Collins and Baroness Diana Warwick of Undercliffe, were also informed of the plans of the organisers to breach UCL's Equality and Diversity policy.

    Ms McClement and Rob de Bruin, co-chair of the 50:50 Gender Equality Group, said: "The UCL security team will be in attendance to ensure compliance with this. If the event organisers do not comply, the event will not be permitted to go ahead."

    Despite these assurances, segregation was enforced on the night.

    At the entrance to the UCL building audience members were separated into male and female only queues by the organisers' security staff.

    The policy of segregation was strictly enforced inside the building. Male attendees were refused entry via the women's door to the lecture theatre. When asked if the event was segregated, one of the security staff said: "It's slightly segregated." Dr Aisha Rahman said she was an organiser and that the room had been booked on behalf of UCL Chemistry. She said the segregation had been agreed with the University and suggested more than once that the men should be refused entry.

    Several attendees approached UCL's security personnel to alert them to the situation, but found that the staff were unwilling to intervene, and were instructed to comply with the organisers' policy of segregation.

    After more discussion, three male attendees were told they would be permitted to sit in the women's section, but were directed to an isolated space on the side of the lecture theatre, away from everyone else.

    One of the students, Christopher Roche, said: "It was clear that the segregation was still in effect as when I sat in the same aisle as female attendees I was immediately instructed by security to exit the theatre. I was taken to a small room with IERA security staff and an organiser named Mohammad who told me that the policy was actually given to IERA by UCL.

    "Shocked, I said that I would like to return to my seat but was told that security would now remove me from the premises for refusing to comply with the gender segregation."

    The organisers' security staff then tried to physically remove Mr Roche and Adam Barnett, a journalism student and friend of Mr Roche, from the theatre.

    Professor Krauss intervened and threatened to leave to stop the removal of the two audience members. The organisers then prepared a row near the women's section at the back of the room where the two men sat quietly for the event. Professor Kraus said he had been told in advance that there would be no segregation, and that people could sit wherever they wanted.

    Adam Barnett said: "What happened on Saturday is a scandal. UCL and the organisers owe an apology to me, my friend, the audience and the general public. For a London University to allow forced segregation by sex in 2013 is disgraceful.

    "The organisers should also apologise for their appalling behaviour if they want to hold any more events on campuses in the future."

    He added: "It's insulting to be told that because I'm a man I can't sit near women in the audience. I'm not in the habit of forcing my presence where it's unwanted, but the event's organisers have no business policing social matters of this kind. Furthermore, the women in question were never asked whether they cared where we sat."

    "In this case the segregation was non-voluntary. But voluntary or not, segregation is wrong, as well as a violation of UCL policy."

    Another student attendee, Halima, said "What happened at UCL was utterly disgraceful. I found the atmosphere intimidating and divisive, and I regret not joining my male friends in openly opposing this violation of gender equality in public premises. However, I was genuinely fearful of the repercussions.

    "As an Asian woman I found the enforcement of non-voluntary segregated seating incredibly offensive and especially outraged to see females were allocated seats at the back corner of the auditorium to view the debate from a disadvantaged position. Segregation based on gender difference is totally unacceptable under any circumstances and UCL's failure to protect equal rights is a heavy stain on their reputation."

    Chris Moos, a PhD student who sought assurances from UCL before the debate, said: "Having personally attended this event, I cannot tell you how disappointed I and many other attendees are that UCL did not live up to its promise to make sure that its Equality and Diversity policy was enforced.

    "Overall, the atmosphere of the event was intimidating for both male and female students, who were shocked to see that although concerns about the plans to enforce gender segregation had been raised before with UCL, the organisers were able to violate its policy and create a threatening and divisive atmosphere that was not inclusive to all attendees."


    http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/03/sexual-segregation-at-a-ucl-event-a-scandal-say-students

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #39 - November 27, 2013, 02:32 AM

    Interesting article by a muslim woman. someguy may be interested.

    Quote

    Segregating men and women at university events won't lead to equality



    It enables the unequal distribution of power resulting in gender based discrimination



    Malcolm X once said; “America preaches integration and practices segregation.” I believe Universities UK preaches equality but promotes segregation. 
     


    As a university student I once recall walking down the street when I noticed the president of my Islamic society (Isoc) walking towards me.  When he saw me, a look of panic glazed over his eyes and he hurriedly crossed the road and continued walking.  That was 13 years ago, yet little has changed.  This week, a student told me how wanting to pray Friday prayers, she approached one of the “brothers” at her Isoc to ask which room prayers were being held in.  His response?  He turned his back to her and faced the wall.  These experiences of misogyny stem from the belief that women are immoral and the ‘solution’ to this is gender segregation as proponents advocate.

    There has been much controversy about the legal status of university events allowing gender segregated events.  Universities UK’s new published guidelines suggest side to side segregated seating is acceptable as “both men and women are being treated equally” and therefore women would not experience “less favourable treatment.”

    Universities UK clearly cannot see the wood for the trees. The idea that both men and women are equally segregated and therefore treated equally is highly erroneous.  Perhaps one could argue such a point if so many Isocs weren’t such patriarchal constructions; shaped, structured and led by men. 

    So let me spell it out for Universities UK, segregation results in ‘less favourable treatment.’  It enables the unequal distribution of power between men and women, resulting in gender based discrimination and inequality.  It manifests itself in few female speakers being invited to speak to a mixed audience, limited decision making powers by female members, and how there has never been a female president of an Isoc. 

    Segregation perpetuates discriminatory social norms and practices, shaping male attitudes about women and restricting the decisions and choices of women.  By allowing gender segregation, Universities UK are complicit in the gender inequality being perpetuated by Isocs whose advice will only make it easier for Isocs to treat socially unequal groups, in this case women, even more unequally. 

    But also rather astonishingly, Universities UK delves into trying to tell us what constitutes Muslim religious belief implying that those opposed to segregation must be people from outside of the Islamic faith, not recognising that often it is Muslims themselves who oppose gender segregation.

    Theological differences on the validity of segregation within Muslim societies, the nature and location of such segregation and who it applies to exists.  I am sure however, Universities UK would tell us they don’t wade into theology or take a theological position on such issues but why then, with the advice it has given, recognise and promote the religious belief of those who do advocate gender segregation as opposed to those Muslims whose religious belief is the opposite? 

    Universities UK then advise that the gender segregated views of the speakers must be respected in order to protect freedom of speech despite that those who do believe in gender segregation view women as inferior.  Preacher Haitham al Haddad, who has spoken in approximately twenty Isocs in the last two years, argues that women should withdraw from public life, hoping to disempower them by denying them their economic self-determination and to silence them through their invisibility.  In the interests of freedom of speech how often do those Isocs who host such preachers invite speakers with opposing views? 

    Universities UK are not only giving speakers like him a green light to say these things but are also preparing the gender segregated seating for him to say it.  For years I have witnessed institutions and statutory agencies, while breaking their backs to respect ‘cultural sensitivities,’ will happily do so while making martyrs out of ethnic and religious minority women.

    Perhaps Universities UK should heed the wise words of Paul Harris, founder of Rotary, “segregation never brought anyone anything except trouble.”


    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/segregating-men-and-women-at-university-events-wont-lead-to-equality-8962984.html

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #40 - November 27, 2013, 02:41 AM

    Then she is not a "proper" muslim women.


    “segregation never brought anyone anything except trouble"


    Words of wisdom
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #41 - November 27, 2013, 02:44 AM

     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #42 - November 27, 2013, 09:29 PM

    comparing gender segregation in lecture halls to something like apartheid is cynical.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #43 - November 27, 2013, 09:35 PM

    Why?
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #44 - November 27, 2013, 09:48 PM

    please refer to the equality commissioner.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #45 - November 27, 2013, 09:52 PM

    So segregating people who don't wish to be segregated on the basis of race is somehow worse than doing it on the basis of gender, is it?
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #46 - November 27, 2013, 10:03 PM

    nelson mandela will be happy to know you've reduced his people's struggle to the level of an audience of students being asked to observe temporary gender segregation during a lecture talk.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #47 - November 27, 2013, 10:05 PM

    please refer to the equality commissioner.


    Did someone call?

    Emergency Report from the President of the EU Equality Commission.

    We at the EU say it is perfectly okay that gender segregation is allowed. Infact segregation on the basis of religion should be allowed too.

    At the front of the class kafirs.
    Then Buddhists.
    Then Hindus.
    Then Jehovas Witnesses.
    Then Jews.
    Then Protestant Christians.
    Then Catholics.
    Then Mormons.
    Then Hasidic Jews.
    Then Sunni Hanafi Muslims.
    Then Sunni Maliki Muslims.
    Then Sunni Shafi Muslims.
    Then Sunni Hanbali Muslims.
    Then Shi'ites.
    Then women.
    Then black women.
    Then gays and lesbians.
    Than transgenders.
    Then the disabled.
    Finally, someguy.

    I have tried to be as fair and equitable as possible.

    Please send you concerns to this address at the EU Equality Commission

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #48 - November 27, 2013, 10:08 PM

    and there you have it.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #49 - November 27, 2013, 10:11 PM

    nelson mandela will be happy to know you've reduced his people's struggle to the level of an audience of students being asked to observe temporary gender segregation during a lecture talk.


    If you lecture requires gender segregation it must be a pretty shit lecture.

    Someguy, why is gender segregation necessary anyway? What is the rhyme and reason behind it?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #50 - November 27, 2013, 10:22 PM

    nelson mandela will be happy to know you've reduced his people's struggle to the level of an audience of students being asked to observe temporary gender segregation during a lecture talk.


    By this logic, Nelson Mandela would be happy to know that some guy on the internet has distilled the struggle against apartheid to "racism's awful, but discrimination against people based upon their gender is A-OK".

    I see one cynic on this thread, and for once it isn't me.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #51 - November 27, 2013, 10:32 PM

    NOW THAT'S WHAT YOUR NAME REMINDS OF!

    TOOR!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtxiTaghb3Y

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #52 - November 27, 2013, 10:47 PM

    nelson mandela will be happy to know you've reduced his people's struggle to the level of an audience of students being asked to observe temporary gender segregation during a lecture talk.


    It's called a slippery slope, its trying to guard against a situation like in S.Africa.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #53 - November 28, 2013, 08:31 AM

    nelson mandela will be happy to know you've reduced his people's struggle to the level of an audience of students being asked to observe temporary gender segregation during a lecture talk.


    How about jews on one side, christians on the other? Poland did that in the 1930s. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #54 - November 28, 2013, 06:18 PM

    It's called a slippery slope, its trying to guard against a situation like in S.Africa.


    it's more like someone forcing themselves to slide down a very slight gradient.

    there is no comparison but makes for good blather in arguments.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #55 - November 28, 2013, 06:26 PM

     Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #56 - November 28, 2013, 06:28 PM

    yes, I said blather.
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #57 - November 28, 2013, 06:44 PM

    You and Eduardo make an interesting pair.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #58 - November 28, 2013, 07:16 PM

    it's more like someone forcing themselves to slide down a very slight gradient.

    there is no comparison but makes for good blather in arguments.


    Clarify please, on another matter are you deliberately trying to be dismissive?
  • Rescind endorsement of sex segregation at UK universities!
     Reply #59 - November 28, 2013, 07:31 PM

    You and Eduardo make an interesting pair.


    either you're lumping me together with a crude racist or hinting we're the same person.

    unwise.
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