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 Topic: BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims

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  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #30 - November 28, 2013, 10:35 PM
    Report on ex-Muslims on Newsnight coming up, on BBC2 now
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #31 - November 28, 2013, 10:42 PM
    Sweet, I'll watch it on catch-up Afro
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #32 - November 28, 2013, 10:42 PM
    Seconded, thanks!
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #33 - November 28, 2013, 10:45 PM
    You have BBC i-player? Eh, it'll probably be on youtube.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #34 - November 28, 2013, 10:55 PM
    Someone put on here for me, before, and hopefully will continue to do so for every new thing. But youtube really is my friend.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #35 - November 28, 2013, 11:21 PM
    http://www36.zippyshare.com/v/72089254/file.html

    full rip
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #36 - November 28, 2013, 11:25 PM
     Afro
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #37 - November 28, 2013, 11:51 PM
    I like to debate you some guy. Do you prefer beating the women with toothbrush or toothpick?
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #38 - November 28, 2013, 11:58 PM
     It was powerful. It was truthful. It was sympathetic. It didn't hide from what ex-Muslims face. It was groundbreaking in this respect. It was amazingly open and didn't hide away from the facts.

    Two days, two major BBC reports on ex-Muslims. Could this be the tipping point?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #39 - November 29, 2013, 12:02 AM
    Someguy is restricted and his posts deleted for trolling on a thread about groundbreaking ex-Muslim media profiles.

    This forum is a safe space for ex-Muslims and we will not tolerate anyone who disrespects that.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #40 - November 29, 2013, 12:05 AM
    Quote from: billy on November 28, 2013, 11:58 PM
    It was powerful. It was truthful. It was sympathetic. It didn't hide from what ex-Muslims face. It was groundbreaking in this respect. It was amazingly open and didn't hide away from the facts.

    Two days, two major BBC reports on ex-Muslims. Could this be the tipping point?


    We need to go mainstream and not fear revealing our names and faces.

    Come out of hiding.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #41 - November 29, 2013, 12:10 AM
    I noticed on the radio a bloke mentioned a parallel to being gay. I've made similar comments. I think ex-muslims today can learn a lot from the gay movement in the mid-late 20th century.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #42 - November 29, 2013, 12:10 AM
    Such as?
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #43 - November 29, 2013, 12:18 AM
    To be gay was shameful. If people knew you were discriminated against, harassed, disowned, thrown onto the streets, cut off from family, forced to stay in the closet, pressured to appear straight, etc. The parallels with ex-muslims is striking.

    The best thing gays ever did was exactly what you said. To go mainstream and not fear revealing names and faces, to come out of hiding, let people know you aren't going anywhere, will not live a lie and demand that your rights to live your life safely within the law are not only carved in stone but enforced. Also to encourage muslims to speak up and say "Not in my name".
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #44 - November 29, 2013, 12:42 AM
    Quote from: billy on November 28, 2013, 11:58 PM
    It was powerful. It was truthful. It was sympathetic. It didn't hide from what ex-Muslims face. It was groundbreaking in this respect. It was amazingly open and didn't hide away from the facts.

    Two days, two major BBC reports on ex-Muslims. Could this be the tipping point?


    Let us hope so. Something has to be done.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #45 - November 29, 2013, 12:43 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 29, 2013, 12:10 AM
    I noticed on the radio a bloke mentioned a parallel to being gay. I've made similar comments. I think ex-muslims today can learn a lot from the gay movement in the mid-late 20th century.


    Good point.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #46 - November 29, 2013, 02:40 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 29, 2013, 12:10 AM
    I noticed on the radio a bloke mentioned a parallel to being gay. I've made similar comments. I think ex-muslims today can learn a lot from the gay movement in the mid-late 20th century.

    Quote from: Jedi on November 29, 2013, 12:10 AM
    Such as?

    Wear sequinned pink hot pants on parade. dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #47 - November 29, 2013, 03:13 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 29, 2013, 02:40 AM
    Wear sequinned pink hot pants on parade. dance


    I am sorry, I cannot. But you just knock yourself out. I boycotted sequins long ago, in the womb.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #48 - November 29, 2013, 07:57 AM
    Quote from: toor on November 27, 2013, 09:46 PM
    the 'brown people' section made me cringe quite hard.

    Oh my lord. I was looking for a hole to hide in when that came on. But it was awkward, human, not slick. This is a good thing, no?

    As for the gay angle, Muddy used to say interesting things about that. I remember him saying coming out as gay was far harder than openly leaving Islam. This surprised me, but I suppose he was coming out as gay in a community shaped by Islam.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #49 - November 29, 2013, 09:38 AM
    Quote from: billy on November 28, 2013, 12:41 AM
    I did think that sounded strange, but is it analogous to people changing their name to an Islamic name when they become Muslim? Sometimes those conversions involve a degree of distancing from ones own identity. Muslims don't think twice when that happens.


    Good point. I never thought of it that way.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #50 - November 29, 2013, 10:28 AM
    Really interesting! It's still a very sensitive subject, I've noticed that people with "Muslim background" often cannot get rid of the label "Muslim" despite them being atheists. Do we call Dawkins Christian?

    Quote from: Kingsaab on November 29, 2013, 09:38 AM
    Good point. I never thought of it that way.


    Converts often adopt the culture of the dominant Muslim group OR culture of their spouses. Women are much more prone to this. I always resisted and found it odd that my convert friends drastically changed culturally... perhaps it is partially true when some people mistskenly say "so you changed your religion to arab?".  Cheesy
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #51 - November 29, 2013, 10:45 AM
    Quote from: billy on November 28, 2013, 12:41 AM
    I did think that sounded strange, but is it analogous to people changing their name to an Islamic name when they become Muslim? Sometimes those conversions involve a degree of distancing from ones own identity. Muslims don't think twice when that happens.


    The latter is a very good point; that said, the Muslims I knew who cared about such things would tend to insist that converts pick up at least an Arabic name - if they hadn't decided on one prior to conversion - if not change their names altogether. This wasn't active coercion so much as a form of nagging, but it still counts as pressure in my book. That said, it's hard to be unsympathetic to someone who finds themselves so much at odds with the culture they were born into, that they repudiate it so thoroughly, and without anyone else's prompting.

    Quote from: David on November 29, 2013, 07:57 AM
    Oh my lord. I was looking for a hole to hide in when that came on. But it was awkward, human, not slick. This is a good thing, no?


    It was a misstep, so I can't judge the guy too harshly; I think it really was just the "oh shit, you didn't just say that on national radio" factor that got me. What he said after that made sense, but anyone who were looking for reasons to be dismissive about it would probably have stopped listening after that.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #52 - November 29, 2013, 11:43 AM
    Thanks for the rip

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 28, 2013, 08:54 AM
    I'm hoping that's a compliment. Wink


    Yup. There have been times when I sat down to read the forums with a cup of coffee. I come across one of your comments followed by my reaction then I find myself considering if an investment in a splash guard for my monitor would be wise.
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #53 - November 29, 2013, 12:17 PM
    The Newsnight report on ex-Muslims in the UK can be seen here starting at 36 minutes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03jyldk/Newsnight_28_11_2013/ …

    can some technical whizkid save it so we can have it, the BBC usually takes the i-player links down after a few days.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #54 - November 29, 2013, 06:46 PM
    Ajmal Masroor on apostates (not verbatim):

    'Islam teaches about even loving your enemy'.

    '...or those that haven't learnt Islam properly'.

    Thanks for that demeaning and patronising expression of compassion.

    And the following enlightening (though thankfully honest words) from the UK Shariah Council:

    'To leave Islam is like changing your political allegiance....it is like the treason...(the punishment) is capital punishment.'

    The 'documentary' was very dissapointing. Where was the challenging of such views? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the scholarly debate from both sides? Watching this, no wonder people think that Islamic extremists have an easy ride. I'm sure 'The Big Questions?' when it returns will do a better job than this.

    We need a debate and not a cringeworthy stomach churning mockumentary afterthought like this.







    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #55 - November 30, 2013, 03:37 AM
    Quote from: bogart on November 29, 2013, 11:43 AM
    Yup. There have been times when I sat down to read the forums with a cup of coffee. I come across one of your comments followed by my reaction then I find myself considering if an investment in a splash guard for my monitor would be wise.


    Maybe you can start the Quod Appreciation Society Smiley
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #56 - November 30, 2013, 06:36 AM
    Quote from: David on November 29, 2013, 07:57 AM
    Oh my lord. I was looking for a hole to hide in when that came on. But it was awkward, human, not slick. This is a good thing, no?

    As for the gay angle, Muddy used to say interesting things about that. I remember him saying coming out as gay was far harder than openly leaving Islam.

     

    I'd say that's fairly accurate. 

    By coming out as an ex muslim the muslim community will think you just left to pursue your selfish desires of wealth, booze and partying.


    By coming out as Gay (in which case you are also deemed an apostate anyways) the muslim community will view you the same way they view pedophiles.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #57 - December 01, 2013, 06:57 PM
    The CEMB Facebook page received the following message from a lady named Lorraine.
    Think you guys might appreciate reading messages of encouragement.  Smiley

    Quote
    I am an atheist and am now older (61) and have traveled a lot in Muslim countries alone other that when I had to have male chaperone who I hired. I just listened to the BBC piece on you all and I am so very proud that you are open and like-minded people. I have been shunned by some family and I was brought up Church of England. Hardly going to get me killed, but I paid for my lack of beliefs nonetheless. To a much lesser degree, of course. Still hurt. I am just hoping for more moderation within Islam and not more fundamentalism to prevail. Religious fundamentalism scares the crap out of me. I first saw Beirut and Tehran and Kabul and more cities in the 1970s when I could go to discos and see women students and others in mini-skirts! Guess I just wanted to lend support and to tell you that it was a great BBC radio piece on you and I hope to hear many more. Well done!

  • BBC Radio 4 programme on Ex-Muslims
     Reply #58 - December 01, 2013, 07:11 PM
    Brings to mind some points I've made to ex-muslims that they tend to stick to the shadows. The simple fact of the matter is, the majority of the population doesn't know just how hard it is to leave islam, they think religion is a private matter and that being shunned, thrown onto the streets, cut off from family is the exception rather than an all to uncomfortable norm. When I first looked into ex-muslims on a whim it was shocking to me that people in western countries lived like this in the 21st century. The more people who know the better.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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