Meaningless without God?

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- justperusing
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Meaningless without God?
OP - January 12, 2014, 05:51 AM

I swear I don't understand how people can think that being an Atheist is a more depressing outlook on life than Islam or Christianity. When I was a Christian I had serious problems with the doctrine of hell as I thought it seemed like the invention of a psychotic mind than a divine being. I held on to Christianity kind of in a pascals wager way because hell seemed so freakin awful that if there was even a chance of it actually existing I would not want to go there. So I feigned belief, while actually kind of hoping my religion was wrong because I didn't think anyone deserved to go to an eternal place of torture regardless of whether they believed or what they did in life. When I started learning about Islam it destroyed my pascals wager.

Equally unsupported by evidence and from the same superstitious region of the world at not too different a time period, Islam also claims an unsavory demise for those who do not bow to it. I was terrified because now I couldn't safeguard myself from hell because two religions with exclusive claims were saying that I should believe in their doctrine or I would go to hell. So I started watching debates to see which religion was more plausible or likely to be true.

The debates were so strange to watch to see two people arguing over an entity that can't be seen, tested, or even proved of existing. Not only this but they thought that their opponent deserved to go to hell for not reaching the same conclusion about said entity. Legitimate objections to both religions were raised, but both sides of these debates seemed happy to justify the misogynistic and violent claims of both the Bible and the Quran.

Both Christianity and Islam have problems. Apologists scramble to smooth over the rough parts of their holy texts which on the surface are absurd, obscene, or just plain false. Maybe it is possible to smooth over these things and what seems on the surface to be ignorant or cruel is actually some divine wisdom. But to say that someone deserves to be tortured eternally for having legitimate problems with these religions or choosing the wrong religion is disgusting.

If one of these religions were true imo it would be the most horrific reality imaginable. If Christianity were true, some dedicated, good-hearted muslim would burn eternally for coming to the wrong conclusion about who God is. If Islam is true, some equally compassionate Christian who dedicated his life to what he thought was God would be tortured eternally. I seriously don't understand why anyone would think that either one of these realities are preferable to an atheist worldview.

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #1 - January 12, 2014, 06:31 AM

Though sometime ago when i researched judaism it says that there is no hell in judaism and one doesn't need to be a jew to enter heaven . Just following some noahs commandments is enough . Surprisingly jews were prohibited from converting anyone into another jew unlike islam and christianity with their endless dawah/preaching to gain followers . I still dont like or believe in any abrahamic religion but i see judaism in a better light than the old misconception of it kinda being a lost/evil/stupid religion much worse than christianity and islam .
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Reply #2 - January 12, 2014, 06:52 AM

^Just to correct you that would be Mose's commandments not Noah's

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #3 - January 12, 2014, 08:40 AM

I've always really admired this video, and secretly wished I had written it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

It really does put into words some of the things I struggle to.

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Reply #4 - January 12, 2014, 08:55 AM

Love that vid.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #5 - January 12, 2014, 10:19 AM

justperusing seem to have revelation form allah/ god whatever..he is writing some verses here.. let me pick up some nuggets..

Quote from: justperusing on January 12, 2014, 05:51 AM

1). I swear I don't understand how people can think that being an Atheist is a more depressing outlook on life than Islam or Christianity.

Hello justperusing., You are swearing on whom? You are swearing by whom?? Why do you swear?? that sounds like just out of Allah mouth.. here read this
Quote
I swear by the runners breathing pantingly
I swear by those that produce fire striking,
I swear by the time,
I swear by the runners breathing pantingly,
I swear by the fig and the olive,
I swear by the early hours of the day,
I swear by the night when it draws a veil,
I swear by the sun and its brilliance,
I swear by this city.
I swear by the daybreak,
I swear by the raingiving heavens,
I swear by the heaven and the comer by night;
I swear by the mansions of the stars,
I swear by the sunset redness,
I swear by the stars,
I swear by the angels who violently pull out the souls of the wicked
I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation
I swear by the emissary winds, sent one after another
I swear by the self-accusing soul.
I swear by the day of resurrection.
I swear by the moon,
I swear by the Lord of the Easts and the Wests
I swear by that which you see,
I swear by the pen and what the angels write,
I swear by the falling of st
I swear by the star when it goes down.
I swear by the Mountain,
I swear by the heaven full of ways.
I swear by the wind that scatters far and wide,
I swear by the glorious Quran
I swear by the Book that makes manifest
I swear by the Book that makes things clear
I swear by the Quran, full of admonition.
I swear by those who draw themselves out in ranks
I swear by the Quran full of wisdom

So I say you are better off NOT SWEARING in this forum justperusing.

Quote
When I was a Christian I had serious problems with the doctrine of hell ................ So I feigned belief, while actually kind of hoping my religion was wrong because I didn't think anyone deserved to go to an eternal place of torture regardless of whether they believed or what they did in life. When I started learning about Islam it destroyed my pascals wager.

Good.. Good for you "Pursuer" or persuader

Quote
....... Islam also claims an unsavory demise for those who do not bow to it. I was terrified because now I couldn't safeguard myself from hell ............

Well it sounds to me that you are still terrified Pursuer" .. I mean I see that fear in your post and in your words..
Quote
The debates were so strange to watch to see two people arguing over an entity that can't be seen, tested, or even proved of existing. Not only this but they thought that their opponent deserved to go to hell for not reaching the same conclusion about said entity. Legitimate objections to both religions were raised, but both sides of these debates seemed happy to justify the misogynistic and violent claims of both the Bible and the Quran.

OK.. you have a point there but how did you come to this? " I swear I don't understand how people can think that being an Atheist is a more depressing outlook on life than Islam or Christianity. "

You really sound depressing without your god..

Quote
Both Christianity and Islam have problems. Apologists scramble to smooth over the rough parts of their holy texts which on the surface are absurd, obscene, or just plain false. ..........

well read to me SMOOTHER PARTS justperusing ., Let us cherry pick some of those allah/god words and burn the rest. That is fine with me.

Quote
If one of these religions were true imo it would be the most horrific reality imaginable. If Christianity were true, some dedicated, good-hearted muslim would burn eternally for coming to the wrong conclusion about who God is. If Islam is true, some equally compassionate Christian who dedicated his life to what he thought was God would be tortured eternally. I seriously don't understand why anyone would think that either one of these realities are preferable to an atheist worldview.

well that is all good but suppose if I say this

"if your religion is true and your god is true i think it would be the most horrific reality imaginable"

how do you counter that justperusing? Any way I am glad to read you. You do have some nice thoughts in your post., but you know you are NOT unquestionable.

with best wishes & happy new year
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #6 - January 12, 2014, 11:21 AM

I think the comfort that some ppl derive from hell, yes I said comfort and hell in the same sentence, is that they feel justice is served. Particularly in the case of those that commit evil (as in murder, rape, torture etc) on a large scale but are not brought to account. They derive comfort when this person dies because they feel justice will finally be served, that person didn't get away with everything they done, and an unfortunate side effect of this fantastic justice is that there will be some ppl who will have to suffer for some minor things too. It allows ppl to feel contented when there is nothing they can do. Many ppl would personally want to torture these ppl and therefore accept that the person will be tortured, and once you accept one thing you have to accept it all so they end up agreeing to everyone being tortured for quite minor things, which I don't think everyone agrees with in their heart of hearts but they accept it because they doubt their own logic and empathy over that of the creator.

"Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
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Reply #7 - January 12, 2014, 08:21 PM

Well I always used to hear that it all just comes down to having faith. But the problem with having faith on bad evidence it seems that if there was one true religion and no solid evidence to distinguish which one is true, it would seem to come down to basically luck whether you have chosen correctly or not

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
-Thomas Paine
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