Why same-sex marriage is not legal in almost all countries

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Why same-sex marriage is not legal in almost all countries
OP - January 15, 2014, 07:08 AM

Homosexuality has been proven so many times, that it's not harmful, neither it's any madness.

With religions, Hinduism being a religion, that doesn't condemn any LGBT at all.. Which is enough backing.

Other than that. Homosexuality is regarded as a nature, that is either by birth, or it is generated after the series of events, and incidents.

-- Why its not legal in almost all countries? --

Conceptions.. People view homosexuality as immoral, they view that because homosexuals can't have kids, and they are not capable for raising any heritage, they should be rejected.

Huge countries such as India, USA, Australia, etc, who are democratic, they won't legalize same sex marriage because of its own population that is opposed to homosexuality. When you assume democracy as the best political way to operate the country, you have to support the major view as well.

These are my thoughts, what are your views?

What you think?
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Reply #1 - January 15, 2014, 07:21 AM

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that homosexuality is illegal in the US and Australia. I'm also not sure its true that homosexuality is illegal in "most countries".

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Reply #2 - January 15, 2014, 07:40 AM

Do you mean same-sex marriage?

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #3 - January 15, 2014, 07:52 AM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 15, 2014, 07:21 AM
I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that homosexuality is illegal in the US and Australia. I'm also not sure its true that homosexuality is illegal in "most countries".

*my bad. I really meant "same sex marriage", hope a moderator edits the title of the thread.
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Reply #4 - January 15, 2014, 08:04 AM

Ah, okay. Even with that, gay marriage is legal in some US states, and its looking like it won't be long before its also legal in Australia, not sure about India.

Plus, I reject your assertion that democracy means always giving the majority what they want. True democracy also takes care of minority rights.

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Reply #5 - January 15, 2014, 08:10 AM

But how you will assume that minorities are correct? And then leading to some communal conflict or tensions if majority is not supported. No matter how hard your security are.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522345/Australia-strikes-gay-marriage-law-annuls-new-weddings.html

Australia took back all same sex marriages too.. That they had legalized 2 months ago.

Indonesia, China, Nigeria, Russia, are some huge populations, but not democratic, opposed to LGBT rights.
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Reply #6 - January 15, 2014, 08:19 AM

Its not a question of assuming minorities are correct. You have a legal system which guarantees equal rights to all sections of the population, including minorities, if you live in a democracy.

As for Australia, I think the problem has nothing to do with the Australian people, who are mostly in favour of gay marriage. Its their current government who are very conservative on the issue. Once they're voted out, I doubt it will take long for gay marriage to be legalised.

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Reply #7 - January 15, 2014, 04:14 PM

What Cheetah said. The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a dictatorship you have no voice, no control on how other people decide things that affect your live or the lives of those you love. In a democracy you have a voice. You can listen to the statements of those who want to run the country, and if you find their views favourable, vote them into power. And even when they are in power you can still challenge them, still confront them, still demand answers, still have your voice heard and counted. And it has an effect.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #8 - January 15, 2014, 04:47 PM

I fully support homosexuality and gay marriage.

However, gay marriage is not something 'automatically' done because western countries guarantee 'rights' and 'equal' treatment.
Various kinds of rights and agreements occur all the time that deal with very specific types of people.

For example, many would define marriage as a contract between a male and female. To many, there is then nothing 'illogical' about not recognizing a contract between a man-man or woman-woman.

There's a whole set of laws that treat the parent-child relationship different than anyone else in society. You can't just walk up to any stranger and put them in a time-out or use physical punishment.

In Canada, there's a whole slew of laws that will treat you differently (more benefits) if you're a minority.

Heck, I'm a male and due to biology, I have no right to a child or aid for having a child. Whereas a woman could just get pregnant. I'd have to be vetted for adoption.

Prostitution is illegal and those in the profession are maligned as are those who use the services. Why is the prostitution profession illegal? What makes his/her career choice something the government should ban?

My point here is not in the details of any of these things, but merely that this notion that we are all equal and are treated equal by the government and we are all free is just not there. We don't live in that world.

This gay marriage is just another example of it.
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Reply #9 - January 15, 2014, 06:21 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on January 15, 2014, 04:14 PM
What Cheetah said. The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a dictatorship you have no voice, no control on how other people decide things that affect your live or the lives of those you love. In a democracy you have a voice. You can listen to the statements of those who want to run the country, and if you find their views favourable, vote them into power. And even when they are in power you can still challenge them, still confront them, still demand answers, still have your voice heard and counted. And it has an effect.

Damn Dictatorship.. I read the word, I get mad.

Some people argue though that sharia law isn't dictatorship, but it is.

Democracy sometimes become 25 people's property, like Gandhi had wrote about western democracies. And you see the output already then.

Different things, if we go by political system, but still, democracy is best.
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Reply #10 - January 15, 2014, 06:26 PM

Quote from: Pride on January 15, 2014, 06:21 PM
Damn Dictatorship.. I read the word, I get mad.

Different things, if we go by political system, but still, democracy is best.

hello pride welcome to the den..

So what kind of democracy you like?? Parliamentary or Presidential Democracy and why? You know for some time for some nations I like that Singaporean Lee Kuan Yew type of dictatorship or even Mustafa Kemal Atatürk type of dictatorship ..

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Reply #11 - January 15, 2014, 10:27 PM

Quote from: Pride on January 15, 2014, 06:21 PM
Damn Dictatorship.. I read the word, I get mad.

Some people argue though that sharia law isn't dictatorship, but it is.

Democracy sometimes become 25 people's property, like Gandhi had wrote about western democracies. And you see the output already then.

Different things, if we go by political system, but still, democracy is best.

True democracy is where all have a voice. It wasn't always like this. Even in Gandhi's time, India was owned by a company, an extension of an Empire. People had different rights depending on what kind of human they were. Male or female, white or non white, etc. Today all have a voice. Black, white, gay, straight, theist, atheist, male, female, all can be heard and all can challenge. Society is a very fluid thing, we change it, we examine it, we try to make it better. It's the best we can do. In another thousands years, how will be the world look? How much further will we have come?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #12 - January 16, 2014, 02:33 AM

Marriage is an inherently conservative institution, and most conservative social views throughout the world frown on homosexuality, so thus it's always been a battle to allow homosexuals into this conservative sphere.
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Reply #13 - January 16, 2014, 02:43 AM

Whatever happened to wanting strong familiar bonds and other people keeping out of your business and not telling you what to do? Dictating who can and cannot marry is fascist. Still, more and ore people are in favour of it. Even in the more traditional places such as Italy, the population is becoming more and more open to the idea of same sex relationships, and that's despite the Vatican presence.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #14 - January 16, 2014, 02:51 AM

Quote
Whatever happened to wanting strong familiar bonds and other people keeping out of your business and not telling you what to do?

Well, that's never been apart of the social conservatives vision. They prefer a static social framework and telling people to abide by it.

Quote
Even in the more traditional places such as Italy, the population is becoming more and more open to the idea of same sex relationships, and that's despite the Vatican presence.

Well yeah because Italy is a modernized industrial country, which inevitably brings social liberalism.
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Reply #15 - January 16, 2014, 02:57 AM

Quote
Well yeah because Italy is a modernized industrial country, which inevitably brings social liberalism.

This may become akin to scripture for me.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #16 - January 16, 2014, 03:03 AM

Quote
This may become akin to scripture for me.

Well it's simply a sociological fact that the environment of urbanization, for various reasons, brings social liberalism. Hence why major cities are always more socially liberal than rural or even suburban areas. It's also why the US, Europe, Canada and so forth are much more socially liberal than the rest of the world, that and their enormous wealth that goes alongside with it.
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Reply #17 - January 16, 2014, 03:05 AM

Quote
Homosexuality has been proven so many times, that it's not harmful, neither it's any madness.

True, but a lot of the taboos and restrictions on homosexuality from the ancient past originate from conditions where such sexual activity was more dangerous, and also a threat to population growth, which was seen as vital to many early communities.
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Reply #18 - January 16, 2014, 03:11 AM

Not in Sparta. I disagree.

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Reply #19 - January 16, 2014, 03:17 AM

Quote from: EzraJT on January 16, 2014, 03:03 AM
Well it's simply a sociological fact that the environment of urbanization, for various reasons, brings social liberalism. Hence why major cities are always more socially liberal than rural or even suburban areas. It's also why the US, Europe, Canada and so forth are much more socially liberal than the rest of the world, that and their enormous wealth that goes alongside with it.

Yup.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #20 - January 16, 2014, 03:18 AM

Quote
Not in Sparta. I disagree.

How do you mean?
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Reply #21 - January 16, 2014, 04:01 AM

I am saying, what sort of ancient societies are you claiming saw homosexuality as a threat to population growth? Not Sparta.
So I disagree.

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Reply #22 - January 16, 2014, 05:04 AM

Quote
I am saying, what sort of ancient societies are you claiming saw homosexuality as a threat to population growth? Not Sparta.

Yes they did. Bisexuality was tolerated, but homosexuality was not. Everyone was expected to produce children to the ever growing military state of Sparta. Ironically your counter-example proves my point.

And even if you were right, exceptions do not invalidate the rule. It's obvious that homosexual sex (between males anyway) was more dangerous in the times before modern medicine and contraceptives, and thus cultural taboos formed to dissuade such behavior, alongside the economic benefits of families and children, which homosexuals are less likely to form and have, for obvious reasons.
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Reply #23 - January 16, 2014, 08:18 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on January 15, 2014, 06:26 PM
hello pride welcome to the den..

So what kind of democracy you like?? Parliamentary or Presidential Democracy and why? You know for some time for some nations I like that Singaporean Lee Kuan Yew type of dictatorship or even Mustafa Kemal Atatürk type of dictatorship ..

Lee Kuan Yew is a dictator, he's because of his father.. And Mustafa Kemal Ataturk were tyrant too, but I admire him he made many great points in his life.
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Reply #24 - January 16, 2014, 08:21 AM

Quote from: EzraJT on January 16, 2014, 02:33 AM
Marriage is an inherently conservative institution, and most conservative social views throughout the world frown on homosexuality, so thus it's always been a battle to allow homosexuals into this conservative sphere.

Its so hard to find a good guy or good girl these days for a marriage anyway! So if someone finds a good partner who is same sex shouldn't be exception. Also the social discrimination should be illegal as well.

I mean they uses "faggot" as a insult. Many of them uses "pig", "dog" as insult too though.. Which makes so sense in the end of the day.
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Reply #25 - January 16, 2014, 08:27 AM

I'm straight but even I would rather marry a guy, because they're not as naggy and demanding.

Quote
Lee Kuan Yew is a dictator, he's because of his father..

Singapore is a corrupt city state where rich people go to flee taxes and justice, and where people are brutally punished for harmless behavior. Why would anyone want to emulate that?
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Reply #26 - January 16, 2014, 08:53 AM

Quote from: EzraJT on January 16, 2014, 08:27 AM
I'm straight but even I would rather marry a guy, because they're not as naggy and demanding.

Truth, bro. Let's compare power tools and talk about the football, bro.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #27 - January 16, 2014, 09:19 AM

I don't even watch sports
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Reply #28 - January 16, 2014, 12:23 PM

Quote from: EzraJT on January 16, 2014, 05:04 AM
Yes they did. Bisexuality was tolerated, but homosexuality was not. Everyone was expected to produce children to the ever growing military state of Sparta. Ironically your counter-example proves my point.

And even if you were right, exceptions do not invalidate the rule. It's obvious that homosexual sex (between males anyway) was more dangerous in the times before modern medicine and contraceptives, and thus cultural taboos formed to dissuade such behavior, alongside the economic benefits of families and children, which homosexuals are less likely to form and have, for obvious reasons.

You are confusing an act with an orientation.
Homosexuality does not mean you cannot reproduce. I am here, so I am right, and proof of this. Sparta was well populated, and still homosexuality was institutionalized there.
Homosexuality has had a seat in most Islamic cultures, no matter what denials you hear.
Look at Oman, they were a closed country until what, 1979? They had a homosexual class that was able to cross gender lines without punishment, and still join the male ranks, after marriage.
See Unni Wikan's work in social anthropology in Oman.

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Reply #29 - January 16, 2014, 03:19 PM

Quote from: Pride on January 16, 2014, 08:18 AM
~~Lee Kuan Yew is a dictator, he's because of his father.~~. And Mustafa Kemal Ataturk were tyrant too, but I admire him he made many great points in his life.

I guess you are talking about Kemal Ataturk involvement in that Armenian genocide Pride. But on that I am not sure., I am still looking for an impartial source of his direct involvement in that tragedy

Quote from: EzraJT on January 16, 2014, 08:27 AM
I'm straight but even I would rather marry a guy, because they're not as naggy and demanding.

Singapore is a corrupt city state where rich people go to flee taxes and justice, and where people are brutally punished for harmless behavior. Why would anyone want to emulate that?

we need to learn more about that EzraJT., True ist is NOT western liberal democracy but if you look at the history of Singapore.. let me give this to start with..

That picture is from 1945

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........On 31 August 1963, Singapore declared independence from the United Kingdom and joined with the Federation of Malaya.

well

1964:..., Race riots between the pro-Bumiputera Malaysians and Singaporean multi-racial community started..

in 1965, the Malaysian parliament voted 126 to 0 to expel Singapore from Malaysia.., Again Race riots broke out once more in 1969.

1965–1990: Independence from Malaysia and Lee Kuan Yew as Prime Minister., Everyone who was present in Singapore on the date of independence was offered Singapore citizenship. and in 1970 it joined the Non-Aligned Movement.

that was the time Lee Kuan Yew as Prime Minister...

Quote
1990–2004: Goh Chok Tong as Prime Minister
In 1990, Goh Chok Tong succeeded Lee as Prime Minister. During his tenure, the country faced the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, the 2003 SARS outbreak and terrorist threats posed by Jemaah Islamiyah.

2004–Present: Lee Hsien Loong as Prime Minister In 2004, Lee Hsien Loong, the eldest son of Lee Kuan Yew, became the country's third prime minister

It is true Singaporean Politics is dominated by couple of families.. But that is how 80% of the independent nations on the planet are ruled.. Clearly tremendous economic progress is made by that little country/city whatever.. please look at simple wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore on progress of Singapore economy . And there is no doubt the folks in that city do have fair amount of religious rights.. Look at where that little country is today..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDiYxyXyIq0

Do you disagree with me??., well i don't want to divert the subject from its original heading "Why same-sex marriage is not legal in almost all countries" So may be we will discuss it in different folder..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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