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 Topic: When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.

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  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     OP - February 03, 2014, 10:46 PM
    (Not sure if this is the right section to post this in, so apologies if it isn't in advance)

    I just got done arguing with a Muslim via twitter (who writes for an apologetic website called "Loonwatch") who insisted the CEMB organization are bigots because they define themselves as "ex-Muslims" and you're not supposed to define yourself by what you leave behind...or something.  As you can guess, it wasn't very productive and didn't last long.  But this isn't the first time I've heard this, in fact I've run into it constantly, and even have Muslim friends who state this.  I always say back that if ex-Muslims weren't ruthlessly hunted down and killed for leaving Islam, I think then most wouldn't define themselves as such.  But I wanted to ask, why do they even state this?  What exactly is wrong with defining and identifying yourself with what you leave behind?  I assume there's more than a few converts to Islam who identify as "ex-Christian" or "ex-Jewish" or whatever.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #1 - February 03, 2014, 11:05 PM
    I think it's because they don't want "us" to be even remotely linked to them. We are a stain and they don't want us to tarnish their reputations or image.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #2 - February 03, 2014, 11:17 PM
    Well fine, they can be that way, but I hate when they act like they care about ex-muslims...as long as they shut up and let the Muslims who often are killing them save them....great logic they have.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #3 - February 04, 2014, 12:19 AM
    Yeah, common hypocritical religious dogma. "We are merciful, but if we think you are sinful, we have the right to kill you."
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #4 - February 04, 2014, 12:24 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 03, 2014, 10:46 PM
    (Not sure if this is the right section to post this in, so apologies if it isn't in advance)

    ....................website called "Loonwatch"....................

    ........ But I wanted to ask, why do they even state this?  What exactly is wrong with defining and identifying yourself with what you leave behind?  I assume there's more than a few converts to Islam who identify as "ex-Christian" or "ex-Jewish" or whatever.

    Very simple EzraJT.,

    that is because  NOBODY CARES if you or any one defines himself or herself  as "ex-Christian" or "ex-Jewish" Ex-Buddhist, Ex-pagan..ex-hindu..Ex-Sikh  ex....,ex......  faith head   unlike  Some BABOONS of Islam and some  FOOLS AT LOON LAGOON, who  happened to be high school graduates and born to Muslim parents for no fault of their.

      And..and tell those fools not to worry about Ex-Muslims and  tell them to tell those mullah fools across the globe in every Mosque  NOT TO worry,  not to care  and not harm  ex-Muslims.  I hope I expresssed clearly what I want to say  EzraJT
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #5 - February 04, 2014, 12:48 AM
    Well I know why they hate ex-Muslims, but I don't understand their cognitive dissonance in embracing and being okay with Muslims who identify with ex-whatever, but when someone identifies as an ex-Muslim, OH MY GOD WHAT A BIGOTED ASSHOLE!  LET'S KILL THEM!  Or something along those lines Tongue

    No problem btw yeezevee, I hope we can put our disagreements behind us.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #6 - February 04, 2014, 02:04 AM
    Yeah.. morons of the worst sort.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #7 - February 04, 2014, 02:14 AM
    Obviously not all, but why do a lot of Muslims, even ones who don't have any sympathy with "radicals" and fundamentalists have a seething contempt for ex-Muslims?
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #8 - February 04, 2014, 02:17 AM
    Because they had the audacity to leave their beloved cult. Kind of like a scorned lover or friend.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #9 - February 04, 2014, 02:18 AM
    There's nothing that the faithful hate the most than someone who lived their religion and knows it, but decided to reject it...even actively oppose it.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #10 - February 04, 2014, 02:25 AM
    I guess it's somewhat my naivety growing up in a non-religious community and background, and even the craziest Christians I've known don't care about people leaving the religion, at least not to the point of harassment and violence.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #11 - February 04, 2014, 02:32 AM
    The Quran itself states that those who understand the message of Islam and do not accept it have seals placed over their hearts, their minds, their eyes, their ears. Anything you say to "guide" these people will not sway them. They are effectively cursed, and Allah knows why. He has caused them to be like this, so of course, they are lesser than Muslims who believe in Allah, who do not have these seals over their hearts. Probably, they are not worth as much, is the logical conclusion, if Allah himself thinks them so unworthy, that he prevents them hearing and receiving da'wah.
    It is very, very easy to hate apostates. It is probably Sunnah.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #12 - February 04, 2014, 02:36 AM
    This lady, a writer for "Loonwatch" says she herself has made arguments against punishment for apostasy, but she basically said any ex-Muslim who identifies as an ex-Muslim is a bigot.  It just feels to me this is some soft way to try to make it taboo to come out as such, assuming this lady doesn't have straight up fantasies of killing "apostates" or what not.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #13 - February 04, 2014, 02:57 AM
    Some things are instinctive.
    If she cannot articulate better than that, and is of a literary bent, then perhaps this is one of those things.
    When you believe something, something illogical, and your very salvation depends upon it, you feel threatened by those who reject it.
    Perhaps she feels threatened, instinctively, and is pointing fingers, but does not know how to justify that pointing. It is a very uncomfortable feeling, this cognitive dissonance.
    I remember I would eventually get angry. Because I just believed. There was no logic in it.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #14 - February 04, 2014, 03:05 AM
    I've never been religious, though I did try Christianity for a while in my pre-teens.  Is there something about Islam that just makes people forget all that's rational?
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #15 - February 04, 2014, 03:26 AM
    I think many religions are like that.
    But the Quran is considered Divine in Islam. If you do not believe that, you are not Muslim. So you cannot dispute the holy text of Islam. Everything in Quran is correct. Allah is infallible.
    Prayers are done in Arabic. The Quran is in Arabic, and neither in colloquial, either. It is a static religion.
    No religion is rational. If it were, you would not need faith at all, and faith is necessary to religious belief and adherence.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #16 - February 04, 2014, 03:39 AM
    Yeah many religions are like that, but it seems Muslims are the most angry and irrational on this topic.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #17 - February 04, 2014, 04:31 AM
    It's probably Sunnah, tradition.
    You understand that those who abandoned Islam after agreeing to follow it, as a contract with the Prophet Muhammed, were obliterated?
    Apologists will tell you it was just a political strategy. That it was necessary, from a military angle.
    But it is an example. A precedent, a legacy. So it is not surprising.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #18 - February 04, 2014, 07:42 AM
    Right, didn't Muhammad's successors wage war on a whole group of apostates?
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #19 - February 04, 2014, 08:51 AM
    Yep. Some were considered apostates when they didn't want to pay zakat to Abu Bakr since they thought that they had made that pledge to Mo alone. Despite praying and believing, they were fought. This shows how political Islam is, it's a real cult and far less about spirituality.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #20 - February 04, 2014, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on February 04, 2014, 08:51 AM
    ..............This shows how political Islam is, it's a real cult and far less about spirituality.

    that is true and you can see that  from that thread Chronological History of  Islam Starting from the year 619, the so-called  "Year of sorrow in Islam"  because of the Death  of alleged Prophet's paternal uncle Abu Talib and Prophet's  REAL WIFE  Hadrat Khadija(ra). After that year everything in Islam goes down to war and warlords..
    Quote
    620: Journey to Taif. Ascension to the heavens.
    621: First pledge at Aqaba.
    622: Second pledge at Aqaba. The Holy Prophet and the Muslims migrate to Yathrib.
    623: Nakhla expedition.
    624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.
    625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.
    626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
    627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.
    628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.
    629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
    630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif.
    631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.
    632: Farewell pilgrimage at Makkah.
    632: Death of the Holy Prophet.Election of Hadrat Abu Bakr as the Caliph. Usamah leads expedition to Syria. Battles of Zu Qissa and Abraq. Battles of Buzakha, Zafar and Naqra. Campaigns against Bani Tamim and Musailima, the Liar.

    and it become worse and worse after the death alleged Prophet Muhammad., There are serious problems in the history of Islam . In fact some people consider THE ORIGINAL PROPHET whose preaching until  his wife Khadija was alive were very  simple and he was a simple guy. Most of his preaching until that time were stories of either Judaism and Christianity with the" EXCEPTION THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS NOT SON OF GOD OR GOD,  BUT A PROPHET.  ".  If we remove  that there is nothing new in whole Quran all the way until this alleged Prophet Migrates to so called Madina.

    So some people did project that the this Meccan Muhammad  is different from Madinan Muhammad.  And this Madinan Muhammad  was invented by early Islamic heroes along with ALL HIS CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES, STORIES ON HIS SEXUAL INNUENDOS  and a  ton of  bull shit hadith such as night journey .. flying on horses in to heavens etc..etc.,   

     These stories were clearly invented by some smart guys who converted in to Islam with a brilliant idea.,  "that those who do wars and die for the sake of Islam, they will have everything in heavens after the life.   If they win the wars They can have  loot booty harem and  what not in  this life as well houries and honey rivers after this life. "

    Anyways this political Islam gets worse and worse as each year goes by after the death of that 2nd Madinan Muhammad. You can see that violent Islamic history in this post  including the brutal murders of so-called rightly guided Caliphs all the way to 17/18th century  until colonial west smashed that political Islam  of Middle East/Indian subcontinent to its knees.  

    So the bottom line is.,  Islam/Quran/hadith  indeed has NO SPIRITUALITY & NO SPIRITUAL SAYINGS  what so ever  that you can not find in other so called religions/faiths  before its birth. What all it has is,  aggressive rules for a social/political/economical and family  life of human race with terrific control on  "BASIC INSTINCTS" of a biological species "the Human"
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #21 - February 04, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Interesting.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #22 - February 04, 2014, 05:23 PM
    Quote
    ..............This shows how political Islam is, it's a real cult and far less about spirituality.


    That's kind of ridiculous.  That would basically indict all major religions, and not just Christianity and Judaism, but Buddhism and Hinduism as well, especially the latter two.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #23 - February 04, 2014, 06:06 PM
    Well yes, I do believe that all religions should be deemed to be cults and sects because the mechanisms are basically the same (just different levels in hell as they say). Organized religions has been such a huge part of our human culture, and that these particular cults and sects have been given the "legitimizing" epithet "religion", that we are basically brainwashed into thinking that there is some significant difference between for example Christians and Moonies. Latter Day Saints are the typical and perfect example for a modern day CULT that has been legitimized and raised to the status "religion".

    Just imagine you come from an "atheist" civilization that base values and beliefs on pure facts, science and reason (and have been spared superstitions), and you happen to land on planet earth. You see all these people believing in reincarnation, a man walking on water and in "omnipotent"creating gods having sex and children with each other, you would most probably find it disturbing. Add the many absurd rules, customs and rituals and you would think humans all belong in the loony bin. But since we've been taught that these are just "normal" beliefs for "normal" religions, we don't think about it that way.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #24 - February 04, 2014, 07:01 PM
    But there is no dichotomy between "spirituality" and religion/cults/whatever you want to call them (a "cult" is no better or worse than a religion, and I don't think either should be demonized).  This new-age fluffy nonsense that has developed in the West in the past 50 years is not what faith has historically been.  I'd in fact say spirituality in this sense is worse than old fashioned religion.

    Quote
    Organized religions has been such a huge part of our human culture, and that these particular cults and sects have been given the "legitimizing" epithet "religion",


    Take a wild guess why that has been.  I mean anyone who knows the origins of religion would be able to understand why this is.

    Quote
    Latter Day Saints are the typical and perfect example for a modern day CULT that has been legitimized and raised to the status "religion".


    Well "cults" are just small religions. It's in the eye of the beholder.

    Quote
    Just imagine you come from an "atheist" civilization that base values and beliefs on pure facts, science and reason (and have been spared superstitions), and you happen to land on planet earth. You see all these people believing in reincarnation, a man walking on water and in "omnipotent"creating gods having sex and children with each other, you would most probably find it disturbing. Add the many absurd rules, customs and rituals and you would think humans all belong in the loony bin. But since we've been taught that these are just "normal" beliefs for "normal" religions, we don't think about it that way.


    We have many examples of explicitly atheist governments and societies, and the Western world is more or less non-religious now, and our very planet is being destroyed, largely by these Western countries.  Being "atheist" is not a roadblock to a better society.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #25 - February 04, 2014, 08:17 PM
    I just think that this lady needs a dictionary to find out the meaning of the word 'ex', that's it.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #26 - February 04, 2014, 08:51 PM
    Well she'd say "why do ex-Muslims self-identify as such?  Where's the ex-Christian or ex-Mormon or whatever groups?"  Well, first of all, there are ex-Mormons, and ex-Jewish (at least of the more conservative and fundamentalist strains), etc, and the reason ex-Muslims self-identify as such is because there's a heavy taboo on leaving Islam.  In other words, she's a unsympathetic bitch.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #27 - February 04, 2014, 09:17 PM
    Quote from: three on February 04, 2014, 02:32 AM
    The Quran itself states that those who understand the message of Islam and do not accept it have seals placed over their hearts, their minds, their eyes, their ears.


    Close. It states that allah itself has placed the seals! Which, of course, buggers belief until it lacerates it completely.
  • When (some) Muslims feign sympathy for ex-Muslims.
     Reply #28 - February 05, 2014, 12:49 AM
    I think in Surah 4, it states not only that, but also that Allah led the disbeliever astray, and then placed the seals.
    I mean, I get predestination, but I think it was overkill to claim sadism.
    Thanks for the clarification. I often think everyone knows what I am talking about, and forget to be precise.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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