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Theme Changer

 Topic: Help Me!

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  • Help Me!
     Reply #180 - February 14, 2014, 02:01 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M on February 14, 2014, 10:46 AM
    Dr. Gary Miller writes:
    Calling the Qur'an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing.

    http://www.missionislam.com/quran/amazing.htm

    So your point is that there are non-muslims who are amazed? So what? They are stupid too.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #181 - February 14, 2014, 02:15 PM
    Rami,

    It seems to me that you are not true ex Muslim.. Correct me If I'm wrong..?
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #182 - February 14, 2014, 03:00 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M
    It seems to me that you are not true ex Muslim.. Correct me If I'm wrong..?

    Why do you think that? Can you explain?

    I am an ex-muslim. If you don't believe me, google my name, and find my apostasy article on islamwatch.org.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #183 - February 14, 2014, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on February 14, 2014, 03:00 PM
    Why do you think that? Can you explain?

    I'm am an ex-muslim. If you don't believe me, google my name, and find my apostasy article on islamwatch.org.


    well you are NOT his type of Ex-Muslim Rami.,   The rules Ex-Muslims from S.A.M are different., Ex_muslim are NOT supposed to be human beings.. They are beyond Human.. often inhuman...   right S.A.M.??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #184 - February 14, 2014, 04:28 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee
    Quote from: Rami
    Why do you think that? Can you explain?

    I'm am an ex-muslim. If you don't believe me, google my name, and find my apostasy article on islamwatch.org.

    well you are NOT his type of Ex-Muslim Rami.,   The rules Ex-Muslims from S.A.M are different., Ex_muslim are NOT supposed to be human beings.. They are beyond Human.. often inhuman...   right S.A.M.??

    Could you clarify what you mean by "beyond Human" and "inhuman"?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #185 - February 14, 2014, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on February 14, 2014, 03:00 PM
    Why do you think that? Can you explain?

    I am an ex-muslim. If you don't believe me, google my name, and find my apostasy article on islamwatch.org.

    Sorry, no hard feelings.

    As exMuslim you know, Islam teach on manners and forbids Muslim to use foul language, continually curse and ridicule others.

    When we say, 'They are stupid, you stupid' (any bad words)...the echo comes back to us: 'stupid'... What I mean, we can say what we pleases, but some day the echo of our bad words will come back to us. So, I believe we should store up only good impressions and not hold on to the others, in order that only good may come from us
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #186 - February 14, 2014, 05:14 PM
    Quote from: Rami
    Why do you think that? Can you explain?

    I am an ex-muslim. If you don't believe me, google my name, and find my apostasy article on islamwatch.org.

    Quote from: S.A.M
    Sorry, no hard feelings.

    ? I don't know why you're saying that. Did you think I'm going to get offended?

    Quote from: S.A.M
    As exMuslim you know, Islam teach on manners and forbids Muslim to use foul language, continually curse and ridicule others.

    Are you referring to how I called some people stupid? I don't think this is foul language. Saying the truth IS NOT wrong. Saying the truth IS NOT ridicule.

    Quote from: S.A.M
    When we say, 'They are stupid, you stupid' (any bad words)...the echo comes back to us: 'stupid'... What I mean, we can say what we pleases, but some day the echo of our bad words will come back to us. So, I believe we should store up only good impressions and not hold on to the others, in order that only good may come from us

    I think we should be clear about what we mean. If I refrained from using the word stupid, in reference to somebody believing things on faith, then I'd be lying.

    Further, it's wrong to lie to protect people's feelings. What should happen is that the person changes his feelings to match the truth, instead of expecting others to hide the truth from him in order to protect his feelings.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #187 - February 14, 2014, 05:43 PM
    No matter what the reason for lie, I believe lie eventually becomes bad at telling the truth..

    Truth Hurts.... grin12
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #188 - February 14, 2014, 06:08 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M
    Truth Hurts.... grin12

    It doesn't have to hurt. It's possible to have a different attitude.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #189 - February 14, 2014, 06:18 PM
    It has been two years since I read the Quran but doesn't it state that Muslims can lie to non believers if it profits Islam (or words to that effect)?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #190 - February 14, 2014, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M on February 14, 2014, 05:07 PM
    As exMuslim you know, Islam teach on manners and forbids Muslim to use foul language, continually curse and ridicule others.

    Have you ever read the quran or hadiths?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #191 - February 14, 2014, 06:33 PM
    Quote from: Craig H
    It has been two years since I read the Quran but doesn't it state that Muslims can lie to non believers if it profits Islam?

    Yes.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #192 - February 14, 2014, 06:39 PM
    Quote from: Craig H on February 14, 2014, 06:18 PM
    It has been two years since I read the Quran but doesn't it state that Muslims can lie to non believers if it profits Islam (or words to that effect)?

    You mean..In the Quran describes Allah as the best deceiver?
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #193 - February 14, 2014, 06:45 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 14, 2014, 06:22 PM
    Have you ever read the quran or hadiths?

    Yup...but no longer an important to me anymore..Why?
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #194 - February 14, 2014, 06:47 PM
    No i don't mean that, I mean that Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

    There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. 
  • Help Me!
     Reply #195 - February 14, 2014, 07:00 PM
    Primary sources, pls
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #196 - February 14, 2014, 07:02 PM
    Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

    Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

    Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..."  The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture.  They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

    Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

    Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"  The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

    Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

    Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."  The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit.  If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

    Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #197 - February 14, 2014, 07:04 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M on February 14, 2014, 06:45 PM
    Yup...but no longer an important to me anymore..Why?

    Because you said
    Quote
    Islam teach on manners and forbids Muslim to use foul language, continually curse and ridicule others

    Considering most of the quran and a number of hadiths are exactly that, I'd assumed you hadn't read any.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #198 - February 14, 2014, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: Craig H on February 14, 2014, 07:02 PM
    Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.


    Which one is correct?..

    Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #199 - February 14, 2014, 07:21 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: Craig H on February 14, 2014, 07:02 PM
    Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

    Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

    Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..."  The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture.  They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

    Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

    Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"  The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

    Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

    Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."  The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit.  If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

    Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
     

    Quote from: S.A.M on February 14, 2014, 07:15 PM
    Which one is correct?..

    Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;



    S.A.M  you know well "you both are  wrong" and this pick & chose method of reading Quran is meaningless. you also know that S.A.M -...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #200 - February 14, 2014, 07:22 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 14, 2014, 07:04 PM
    I'd assumed you hadn't read any.

    Ok..so, what's the problem?
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #201 - February 14, 2014, 07:29 PM
    I never said there was a problem. Just curious if you'd read it as what you said seems to go against the scripture.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #202 - February 14, 2014, 08:02 PM
    No...It is one of the basic tenet of Islamic teachings..

    Ask exMuslim here.. Am I right or wrong..
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #203 - February 14, 2014, 08:20 PM
    I'd say you're wrong.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #204 - February 14, 2014, 08:31 PM
    Sum Eris,

    Quote
    I'dsay you're wrong

    Care to explain, pls
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #205 - February 14, 2014, 08:34 PM
    Hello...ex-Muslim...what is the basic tenet of Islam?
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Help Me!
     Reply #206 - February 14, 2014, 08:39 PM
    Yeah... I also want to hear other ex Muslim's opinions.. Afro
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #207 - February 14, 2014, 08:42 PM
    Being right or wrong is not determined by an opinion or any number of them.

    Whatever the issue may be.

    Unless the issue is trying to determine what opinions people have about a certain issue.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Help Me!
     Reply #208 - February 14, 2014, 08:48 PM
    I am open to consider other points of view and to listen to what others have to say..
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #209 - February 14, 2014, 08:51 PM
    Quote from: S.A.M on February 14, 2014, 08:31 PM
    Sum Eris,
    Care to explain, pls

    The quran is full of verses disparaging those who don't believe. The sheer denegation of unbelievers is incredible.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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