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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Imagine in the future we have medical technology that allows us to live forever. And say it's so far in the future that it only costs $1 per year. Say there is a 70 year old who is contemplating suicide. see my post below for context.
  • Don't suicide because family will be sad.
  • Suicide.

 Topic: Suicide or not?

 (Read 28340 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 6 7 89 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #210 - February 18, 2014, 03:48 AM
    Quote
    The question is one of degrees, however. Even if you always disagree with the motivation, to place it as the MOST cowardly and MOST selfish action always, seems to fly in the face of human experience.


    No it doesn't.  If you can't face your situation, then you're just taking the cowards way out by blowing your brains out or slitting your wrist.  And unless you're a hermit with zero contact with anyone and with no one who cares about you, then yeah it's very selfish as well.  And if you wouldn't be distraught by a loved one killing themselves, then there's something wrong with you.  Even if you're really sick and near death, it's still technically cowardly, but it's an action I have to respect because I'd probably off myself in the same situation.  What can I say?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #211 - February 18, 2014, 03:53 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 03:48 AM
    And if you wouldn't be distraught by a loved one killing themselves, then there's something wrong with you.


    How about empathy for their situation?

    Our lives are only given value by the claims that others have on it, like some sort of debt collection process gone wrong? Seems a much more dystopic worldview than the one of self-ownership posited earlier.  Tongue
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #212 - February 18, 2014, 03:54 AM
    Quote
    You can break your back trying to fight the system, or you can get by and try your best not to make things worst. I don't blame people for taking the latter option, as it more readily complies with human nature.

    Either that or just go "fuck it" and settle for full-blown psychopathy, but I don't think that complies too well with human nature either, for most people anyway.  Tongue


    Either way, you're still guilty.  Don't fool yourself thinking otherwise.  I don't respect anyone who tries to pretend otherwise.

    Quote
    Nah, much better to offer cheap moral condemnation on the internet. That's the way you show you're actually doing something. Fight the power!


    That and actually do something.  Something tells me you've never been politically active and in fact, you're probably the kind of person who rolls their eyes at the notion and thinks they're just fine.  Also, you're the one if I remember correctly who offers cheap "moral" platitudes that ended up biting you on the ass anyway.  I wouldn't consider your morality anything to emulate.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    How about empathy for their situation?

    Our lives are only given value by the claims that others have on it, like some sort of debt collection process gone wrong? Seems a much more dystopic worldview than the one of self-ownership posited earlier.  Tongue


    I don't know, you seem like one who actually lacks empathy...

    I'm not telling you not to commit suicide, but if you don't care about the effect it has on others, then you're the sociopath who lacks empathy.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #213 - February 18, 2014, 03:57 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 03:54 AM
    Either way, you're still guilty.  Don't fool yourself thinking otherwise.  I don't respect anyone who tries to pretend otherwise.


    Except that guilt is one of the most useless human emotions, especially if its supposed to spur the kind of systemic change that you're looking for. See the conundrum we're in here?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #214 - February 18, 2014, 03:58 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 03:54 AM
    I don't respect anyone who tries to pretend otherwise.

    I don't respect rapist sympathisers.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #215 - February 18, 2014, 04:06 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 03:54 AM
    I don't know, you seem like one who actually lacks empathy...

    I'm not telling you not to commit suicide, but if you don't care about the effect it has on others, then you're the sociopath who lacks empathy.


    How does choosing to withhold judgement of those who choose to commit suicide translate into lacking empathy for others?

    I'm acknowledging that suicide has an impact on others, and balancing it with the personal anguish of the one who does it. You on the other hand, expect the person who is in such a state to always accept the burden of others' feelings in addition to whatever pain they're in at that moment. Considering your position, I'm actually dumbfounded by your accusation.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #216 - February 18, 2014, 04:11 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on February 18, 2014, 03:58 AM
    I don't respect rapist sympathisers.


     Huh?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #217 - February 18, 2014, 04:14 AM
    Oh, I thought we were playing a game of "let's just make up our opponent's position."
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #218 - February 18, 2014, 04:24 AM
    Quote
    I don't respect rapist sympathisers.


    *rolls eyes*  Strangely enough, I think if we talked one on one, we'd probably be more friendly.  You and others here seem intelligent enough, you're just kind of douchey is the only problem.

    Quote
    How does choosing to withhold judgement of those who choose to commit suicide translate into lacking empathy for others?


    You tell me, what would you do in this hypothetical situation?  I certainly would hope my family would judge me if I offed myself.

    Quote
    I'm acknowledging that suicide has an impact on others, and balancing it with the personal anguish of the one who does it. You on the other hand, expect the person who is in such a state to always accept the burden of others' feelings in addition to whatever pain they're in at that moment. Considering your position, I'm actually dumbfounded by your accusation.


    I'm not making an argument to not do it, I just think you're a selfish coward if you do.  One can be a selfish coward if they want to be.

    Quote
    Except that guilt is one of the most useless human emotions, especially if its supposed to spur the kind of systemic change that you're looking for. See the conundrum we're in here?


    It's not, it's why we determine justice.  But I just don't find someone innocent if they don't actively engage in an activity they otherwise support.  I'm under no illusions most people will care about these sort of things until the shit hits the fan.  I'm just saying you and I aren't innocent angels in all this.  Don't be so quick to judge others is all I'm saying.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #219 - February 18, 2014, 04:33 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 04:24 AM
    Strangely enough, I think if we talked one on one, we'd probably be more friendly.

    I disagree completely. Pretty much the entire time we spoke previously, you were putting words into my mouth, making massive derogatory assumptions and running with them, throwing up all kinds of strawmen - like you did to Quod and like you are now doing to asbie. You probably don't even realise you're doing it.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #220 - February 18, 2014, 04:36 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 04:24 AM
    You tell me, what would you do in this hypothetical situation?  I certainly would hope my family would judge me if I offed myself.

    I'm not making an argument to not do it, I just think you're a selfish coward if you do.  One can be a selfish coward if they want to be.


    Based on what? Have you ever personally been in a position where you have wanted to off yourself? Did it take an act of courage for you to do otherwise, or did it feel more like just survival? I'm tempted to think your hard-line position simply stems from a mischaracterization of suicide and its leading cause, depression.

    Also, I'm not sure what use "judgement" of a loved one would serve after their suicide. Understanding about the signs and circumstances of suicide would be a much more appropriate reflection with a potential tangible future benefit.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #221 - February 18, 2014, 04:46 AM
    Quote
    Based on what? Have you ever personally been in a position where you have wanted to off yourself? Did it take an act of courage for you to do otherwise? I feel like your hard-line position is stemming from a mischaracterization of suicide and its leading cause, depression.


    I have been suicidal before yes.  I haven't a clue you have been or not, but I have. 

    Quote
    Also, I'm not sure what use "judgement" of a loved one would serve after their suicide. Understanding about the signs and circumstances of suicide would be a much more appropriate reflection with a potential tangible future benefit.


    Well even my dysfunctional, fucked up family would and has prevented me from committing suicide before, and I'm thankful for that.

    Quote
    I disagree completely. Pretty much the entire time we spoke previously, you were putting words into my mouth, making massive derogatory assumptions and running with them, throwing up all kinds of strawmen - like you did to Quod and like you are now doing to asbie. You probably don't even realise you're doing it.


    Well, we've already went down this road and I'm not doing it again.  I think you're a douchebag, you think I'm a douchebag.  All I can say is oh well, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #222 - February 18, 2014, 04:51 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 04:46 AM
    Well even my dysfunctional, fucked up family would and has prevented me from committing suicide before, and I'm thankful for that.


    You seem to think that I'm against such efforts whereas I'm not. Just think that for a sane minded person (often not the case in our situation, but in the hypothetical situation presented in OP, much more likely), the final decision rests with them.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #223 - February 18, 2014, 04:56 AM
    Since we seem to be getting back to the original discussion:

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 10, 2013, 03:08 AM
    In England suicide used to be a criminal offense. This was changed about 50 years ago. People with mental health issues would try and fail to end their lives and would end up before a judge and in prison if they failed. It's now perfectly legal, however it's illegal to assist someone. It remains the only crime in the country where the crime is helping someone commit a legal act. This is currently being challenged. I back euthanasia. My reasons for this are very complicated but I boil it down to quality of life.

    If someone is say clinically depressed, i.e. something they can recover from, wishes to die, they should not be allowed. Because they can recover. However, if someone is in a situation where they have no hope of recovery, or are dying a painful death, I support their right to choose to end their life with dignity. Currently we have to go to Switzerland where this is legal. It's horrid having to go abroad in this state when you could slip away in your own bed surrounded by family.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #224 - February 18, 2014, 05:36 AM
    Suicide can never realistically be a criminal offense, that is to say it's a crime in which the punitive measures can't legally be enforced, I guess unless we're going to start arresting corpses.  Some laws do allow for punishing families by withholding life savings in the case of suicide, which does happen, which is pretty horrible.

    Quote
    You seem to think that I'm against such efforts whereas I'm not. Just think that for a sane minded person (often not the case in our situation, but in the hypothetical situation presented in OP, much more likely), the final decision rests with them.


    It's always going to be up to the individual no matter what.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #225 - February 18, 2014, 05:43 AM
    My above quote sums up my feelings on the matter. I don't agree suicide is always a cowardly act but I'd limit assisted dying for the reasons stated, which is why I said I needed more information before voting.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #226 - February 18, 2014, 06:09 AM
    Maybe some forms of suicide, like suicide attacks can be construed as brave, but offing oneself because they can't face life is cowardly, simple as that.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #227 - February 18, 2014, 07:49 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 06:09 AM
    Maybe some forms of suicide, like suicide attacks can be construed as brave, but offing oneself because they can't face life is cowardly, simple as that.


    Sad? Yes. Cowardly? No.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #228 - February 18, 2014, 09:40 AM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 06:09 AM
    Maybe some forms of suicide, like suicide attacks can be construed as brave, but offing oneself because they can't face life is cowardly, simple as that.


    I disagree, it really depends on what you consider brave.  Facing the known and comfortable?  as in life, which is pretty much predictable, good shit will happen and bad shit will happen.  All you are doing is hanging on to the known for fear of dying.  Or facing the unknown?  as in death, darkness, an end.

    Isn't it a fear of death that defines the survival instinct?  how is courage part of being too afraid to die? 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #229 - February 18, 2014, 12:55 PM
    EzraJT

    Do you think it's possible for human interactions to be win/win?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #230 - February 18, 2014, 01:36 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on February 18, 2014, 12:55 PM
    EzraJT

    Do you think it's possible for human interactions to be win/win?


    RamiR.,    I think EzraJT is  American., and I think Americans should interact with fish., they have serious fish problems. These are BLOODY ASIAN FISH are killing every other fish.   Apparently Americans are thinking to spend 7 BILLION DOLLARS to control those Asian Fish..  and that is Just around Chicago

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8P-W5bmoc

    boy 7 billion dollars??.. I wonder now., why Americans do not teach the fish how to go for a mass suicide??

    Americans could send that Damn fish and and those billions of dollars to any country around that Israel or to any nation  between that Arabian desert and that  Desert near  Pakistan.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #231 - February 18, 2014, 06:02 PM
    Quote
    Do you think it's possible for human interactions to be win/win?


    Hmm, depends on what you mean by this?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    I disagree, it really depends on what you consider brave.  Facing the known and comfortable?  as in life, which is pretty much predictable, good shit will happen and bad shit will happen.  All you are doing is hanging on to the known for fear of dying.  Or facing the unknown?  as in death, darkness, an end.


    Again, it depends.  Suicide attackers like the Japanese Kamikaze pilots or the 9/11 hijackers were certainly brave (which doesn't make them "good") but suicidally depressed people are not "brave".  It's not like this is some new sentiment.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    RamiR.,    I think EzraJT is  American., and I think Americans should interact with fish., they have serious fish problems. These are BLOODY ASIAN FISH are killing every other fish.   Apparently Americans are thinking to spend 7 BILLION DOLLARS to control those Asian Fish..  and that is Just around Chicago


    Someone forgot their meds....

    Quote
    Americans could send that Damn fish and and those billions of dollars to any country around that Israel or to any nation  between that Arabian desert and that  Desert near  Pakistan.


    We don't need another welfare case like Israel.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    Sad? Yes. Cowardly? No.


    Sad?  Depends.  Cowardly?  Depends, but in the case of suicide you mean, most likely.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #232 - February 18, 2014, 06:24 PM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 06:02 PM



    Someone forgot their meds....



    Yes.. that is true.. that is a fact ET.,  meds are important., self medicating, self hating and self victimizing is an important fact of life .,  

    Quote
    We don't need another welfare case like Israel.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh common, no need to be a welfare state., ONE BIG AMERIKA IS ENOUGH FOR THIS PLANET.,  ., Have a mercy orange county ET man., instead fighting some Asian fish with 7 billion dollars., US can help the kids like this one., Am I wrong EzraJT?


    UN staff found 4 year-old Marwan crossing desert alone after being separated from family fleeing

    Apparently that 4 year old kid running away from Syria in the Jordan desert and he is doing that alone.  Well that news come out of here at http://world.time.com/2014/02/17/syria-refugees-toddler/
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #233 - February 18, 2014, 06:54 PM
    Quote
    Yes.. that is true.. that is a fact ET.,  meds are important., self medicating, self hating and self victimizing is an important fact of life ., 


     Cheesy
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #234 - February 18, 2014, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 06:02 PM
    It's not like this is some new sentiment.



    Indeed.  It is not new.  It's the same tired, old thinking of the majority.  You have a knack for that.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #235 - February 18, 2014, 08:24 PM
    Quote
    Indeed.  It is not new.  It's the same tired, old thinking of the majority.  You have a knack for that.


    If you reject it simply because it's "da majority" then you're an idiot.  Conformity to non-conformity is just as stupid as plain ol' conformity.  Not that I think you really believe what you say on the matter anyway.

    --------------------------------


    Quote
    Yes.. that is true.. that is a fact ET.,  meds are important., self medicating, self hating and self victimizing is an important fact of life ., 

    Oh common, no need to be a welfare state., ONE BIG AMERIKA IS ENOUGH FOR THIS PLANET.,  ., Have a mercy orange county ET man., instead fighting some Asian fish with 7 billion dollars., US can help the kids like this one., Am I wrong EzraJT?

    UN staff found 4 year-old Marwan crossing desert alone after being separated from family fleeing

    Apparently that 4 year old kid running away from Syria in the Jordan desert and he is doing that alone.  Well that news come out of here at http://world.time.com/2014/02/17/syria-refugees-toddler/


    Do you have meningitis or something?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #236 - February 18, 2014, 09:25 PM
    Quote
    EzraJT  says....

    Do you have meningitis or something?

    nah..no ET no.,

    it is just hyper active brain., and ADD problem., now add to that this OCD  problem and and couple that to  very smart American guy in the discussions .,  you will have my responses..

    So please continue on this "Suicide or not mission" ET...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #237 - February 18, 2014, 09:33 PM
    Quote
    it is just hyper active brain., and ADD problem., now add to that this OCD  problem and and couple that to  very smart American guy in the discussions .,  you will have my responses...


    How old are you?  Assuming you're not bullshitting me, if you have been diagnosed, there are effective treatments for both, since I was diagnosed with them as well but I received effective treatments as a child so they're not so much a hindrance anymore. 

  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #238 - February 18, 2014, 09:42 PM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 18, 2014, 09:33 PM
    How old are you?  Assuming you're not bullshitting me, if you have been diagnosed, there are effective treatments for both, since   I was diagnosed with them as well but I received effective treatments as a child so they're not so much a hindrance anymore.  

    Really??

    So what medications and what effective treatment did you receive?   Do you drive  EzraJT ??  You just want to win everything ..lol..   ..

    And don't worry about me ...  I am ooooooooooooolllllllllllld.,  and sometimes i do bullshit..   You are a good guy.  So EzraJT -   what is opinion on this video..? it is really brutal ..

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=43f_1392635472

    IF YOU ARE WEAK HEARTED GUY ..please don't watch it..
     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #239 - February 18, 2014, 09:49 PM
    Quote
    So what medications and what effective treatment did you receive?   Do you drive  EzraJT ??  You just want to win everything ..lol..   ..


    I received both therapeutic and pharmaceutical treatments that helped me later in life.  I used to not be able to pay attention to anyone even if they were talking right at me, and also had massive obsessive compulsions that didn't allow me to interact with others.  I also had a problem with self-mutilation.  Thankfully they're in the past.  If you do have from OCD and ADD, and if you can, I'd recommend getting treatments as soon as possible.

    I do drive, but it's no badge of honor in SoCal...
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