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Theme Changer

 Topic: What would you do in my situation?

 (Read 8231 times)
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  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #30 - February 13, 2014, 01:36 AM

    Wait, are you saying that if you were in his situation (or a similar situation) you would feel guilty?

    If I was lying to my parents? Of course I'd probably feel guilty. I'd feel guilty if I was lying to a stranger on the street.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #31 - February 13, 2014, 01:51 AM

    Quote from: Ishina
    If I was lying to my parents? Of course I'd probably feel guilty. I'd feel guilty if I was lying to a stranger on the street.

    Why would you feel guilty if you lied to a stranger on the street?

    Do you think it's wrong to lie to strangers on the street? If not, then why do you feel guilty doing it?
  • Re: What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #32 - February 13, 2014, 02:05 AM

    Why would you feel guilty if you lied to a stranger on the street?

    Do you think it's wrong to lie to strangers on the street? If not, then why do you feel guilty doing it?

    Well, mainly because I'm an animal, and lying releases cortisol into my system, which raises my heart rate and blood pressure and triggers several inconvenient fight or flight responses in my body, the most incriminating being changes in my voice pattern. And I need to try and appear normal so that the other person does not pick up on any tells, which adds extra stress to the situation. This makes me feel 'trapped' or 'exposed', and I'd be uneasy with the idea that the person might realise I'm lying and that trust between us would be compromised.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #33 - February 13, 2014, 12:37 PM

    Quote from: Ishina
    Well, mainly because I'm an animal, and lying releases cortisol into my system,

    That doesn't make sense. You're saying that ALL people have cortisol release upon lying, which is not true. Do you agree?
    Quote from: Ishina
    which raises my heart rate and blood pressure and triggers several inconvenient fight or flight responses in my body, the most incriminating being changes in my voice pattern. And I need to try and appear normal so that the other person does not pick up on any tells, which adds extra stress to the situation. This makes me feel 'trapped' or 'exposed', and I'd be uneasy with the idea that the person might realise I'm lying and that trust between us would be compromised.

    So you *care* about him trusting you. That's part of the problem. If you didn't care about him trusting you, then you wouldn't have cortisol release upon lying to him.

    I wonder if you're going to say, "I'm human and it's human nature to *care* that people trust me." No it's not. I don't care if random people on the street trust me, so I'm a counter-example to your blanket statement. What's the difference between me and you? A difference of ideas. That means either of us can change our minds about this. It means you can change your mind about caring what random people on the street think about you.

    You haven't explained any wrongdoing. Why should you feel guilty about not doing anything wrong? Or is it that you are concerned that the guy on the street will think you did something wrong?

    Let's say you are fat, and you ask your boyfriend, "do I look fat in this?" If he lies to you by saying "no baby, you look great", do you think he will feel guilty about it? Do you think he will be worried about you not believing him? Do you think he's going to have cortisol release?
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #34 - February 13, 2014, 01:02 PM

    Well, I am interested in doing research and teaching. This requires degrees (all the way till Ph.D.). I mean unless I discover the theory of everything, none of my papers or publications will be taken seriously with no degree or just an undergraduate one. The reason I am interested in the UK is that they provide large funding for projects of which I can be a part and actually contribute to a field. India is not a country which emphasizes on the pure sciences (they're good at engineering and medicine) so I don't know if I can get the quality education and the connections that I somewhat need to succeed.

    On lying, personally I feel  very guilty. I love my parents as do most people and lying to them feels very wrong and I'm often depressed because of this. The only thing that keeps me motivated in life is my love for science (especially physics).
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #35 - February 13, 2014, 01:13 PM

    Better to remain silent. It is different than telling a lie.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #36 - February 13, 2014, 03:42 PM

    Not really.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #37 - February 13, 2014, 05:12 PM

    That doesn't make sense. You're saying that ALL people have cortisol release upon lying, which is not true. Do you agree?

    No. I'm saying that's generally what causes humans to feel anxious or on edge when they lie. It's a natural physical reflex response. Stress hormones trigger several conscious and unconscious reactions. And a lying human, depending on how self-aware they are, would be aware that these responses are telegraphing the lie to other humans, and likely adapt to the situation by attempting to amend their behaviour and body language, which a socially perceptive human might perceive as unnatural or affected. And so you have competing interplay. The risk for the liar is the consequence of being busted in a social setting. Humans generally don't like it when you betray them, manipulate them, lead them to believe false information and compromise their capacity to navigate accurate reality. There are myriad social repercussions for a discovered liar.

    Obviously people with certain personality disorders, brain abnormalities or hormonal deficiencies would have a defective or diminished response. Or we could say a superior response, if the objective is to lie convincingly and these 'defects' yield advantages to that end. Depends how you look at it.

    So you *care* about him trusting you. That's part of the problem. If you didn't care about him trusting you, then you wouldn't have cortisol release upon lying to him.

    You're correct. If I was able to not care about another person trusting what I say, I imagine I could say anything I want without concern. I do care, though. And I don't see that as a problem.

    I wonder if you're going to say, "I'm human and it's human nature to *care* that people trust me." No it's not. I don't care if random people on the street trust me, so I'm a counter-example to your blanket statement. What's the difference between me and you? A difference of ideas. That means either of us can change our minds about this. It means you can change your mind about caring what random people on the street think about you.

    That's not actually what I'm saying, though. I'm not saying I passively care about what random people on the street think of me. People on the street generally don't interact with each other in any meaningful way. They generally don't even interest me. And I'm comfortable enough with who I am to not be hung up about other people's perception of me.

    I am saying if I was to actually speak to a person and for whatever reason told them a lie, I'd feel bad. Whether they knew it or not, whether they thought I was a liar or not, I'd feel bad. I'd feel bad in the moment, due to my biology and psychology. And I'd feel bad upon reflection of my actions, as a moral agent with the capacity to reflect upon my behaviour.

    You haven't explained any wrongdoing. Why should you feel guilty about not doing anything wrong? Or is it that you are concerned that the guy on the street will think you did something wrong?

    Because, on all kinds of levels - biologically, emotionally, empathically, psychologically, intellectually, philosophically, morally - I find a more satisfying and fulfilling resonance to truthfulness. I also see the value of tact, and so I do not apply truthfulness naively or indiscriminately. There are contexts where one must weight up - on all of those levels - the net benefit or consequences of a truth vs. a lie. To tell the truth 100% of the time throughout your life will only make you an honest moron.

    Why, specifically, I'd feel bad for lying would depend on who I was lying to, my relationship to the person, how big the lie was, how justified the lie was, and the consequences of the truth. But I can't think of any lie I've ever told where I didn't feel at least a pang of discomfort. There is something intrinsic to lying that unbalances me. Messes with my mojo.

    Let's say you are fat, and you ask your boyfriend, "do I look fat in this?" If he lies to you by saying "no baby, you look great", do you think he will feel guilty about it? Do you think he will be worried about you not believing him? Do you think he's going to have cortisol release?

    I suppose it would depend on what degree the person empathises with the person they are lying to. Whether they care about what they feel, about the consequences of insincerity. In that context, I imagine the truth would be an uncomfortable thing to have to acknowledge for either of them. The girlfriend asking if she looks fat would indicate wanting to avoid looking fat, and by extension indicate common anxiety about body image. Being forced to face that truth would perhaps cause hurt or shame. The boyfriend lying could indicate a few things. He might want to avoid having to articulate his true feelings because he anticipates undesirable consequences, and so there is something at stake for him if his lie isn't convincing. So he's perhaps, subconsciously or consciously, gambling on his ability to manage a relatively smaller amount of stress in this moment of upholding a lie, instead of the relatively larger amount of stress he anticipates he will have to deal with if his true feelings are exposed.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • What would you do in my situation?
     Reply #38 - February 13, 2014, 08:24 PM

    On lying, personally I feel  very guilty. I love my parents as do most people and lying to them feels very wrong

    Just because it *feels* wrong, doesn't mean that it *is* wrong. Do you agree? If not, why not?

    If you agree with that, then do you agree that you have a conflict between your feelings and your ideas?
    and I'm often depressed because of this. The only thing that keeps me motivated in life is my love for science (especially physics).

    That's great! Btw, I love physics too. I did a BS in physics, and I've started to do science writing. Check out my science blog: http://ramisciencetech.blogspot.com

    Oh, btw, maybe consider switching to science writing, instead of teaching and research. You could use the years you save not getting degrees on learning how to write for lay audiences and stuff. Also science writing pays better, you have to deal with way less bullshit (like office politics), and you can work from anywhere like at home.
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